"Happiest Baby on the Block" & "Babywise"

dear all,

I am reading "The Happiest Baby on the Block" from Dr. Karp right now and I am quite impressed. I have 2 girlfriends that followed his "5 S's" practice and had very much success.

So I am just wondering if anybody else there uses it in their first year for the babies and how it works and helps.

I also read the "Babywise" by Gary Ezzo, it's about feeding babies with parental assessment. it's a user-friendly, less fatiging feeding way. it's between the extremes of hyperscheduling and attachement parenting, it teaches parental assessment with a flexible routine.

I am just checking out the different ways of calming, carrying and feeding of babies and these above ones make a lot of sense to me, of course I know I'll have to try them first to see what works fine for me and the babies and the whole family.

Anybody out there familiar with those in practice?

alexa

 

The 5 S's worked great for us! Well, swaddling anyway. But they didn't last the whole first three months like Karp suggests. They were kicking off their swaddlers by 2 months, and we had given up by 3 months. But it was great at first! We had those swaddle-me swaddlers with the velcro tabs, so they were really easy to use.

One thing about the five S's... and you are going to find this with a lot of books (I read a lot too when I was pregnant)... Karp recommends keeping the baby in the swing all night if you have to to get them to sleep. But then if you pick up Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, it will tell you that you should never let your baby sleep for long periods of time in a moving swing (because apparently it's not quality sleep if they are moving). So the two totally contradict each other! Things liked this kept me up at night worrying when I was pregnant... .

Keep reading those books---they will give you ideas of different things you can TRY... you can cherry-pick ideas and figure out over time what works best for your babies. The only books I would tend to stay away from are the Dr. Sears/attachment parenting books. I read his website fairly recently and got all depressed because when you are home alone with two babies it is pretty much impossible to go all out and do all the attachment stuff he recommends. In fact, you kind of have to read almost every piece of advice with that "but I'll have two" grain of salt. And try not to let it get you down. It's too bad there aren't more advice books like that specific to multiples! Maybe we should all get together and write it!

I had big plans for our all-natural vegan eco baby with a $700 crib mattress and nothing but breastmilk, cloth diapers, you name it. But having twins forces you to realize you can't be an idealist all the time and in the end, that is really good for you! It was good for me anyway, I feel much more down to earth and less judgmental of other people now.

But I am digressing big time. The 5 S's are great! And feeding---you will figure something out. Try not to be too committed to a feeding "system." If you have your heart set on doing it a certain way, and then that way doesn't work out, you will be disappointed (I was super disappointed when my vision of breastfeeding did not end up matching reality). You and your babies will have to figure out what works best for you, and be happy with it! If they are preemies they will be on a "schedule" at first---we had to wake ours up every three hours around the clock to feed them the first few weeks. And that was what our doctor told us to do, not a book. Every situation is unique and you should listen to your doctor, your babies, and your own instincts.

 

I had never heard of "Babywise" so I just googled it, and I'm not sure it's a great idea. It might not hurt to check out this website, which includes stories from people who tried the parent-directed scheduled feeding plan:

"The reason why my baby was sleeping so long was her blood sugar was dropping so low she couldn't wake up."

http://www.ezzo.info/voices.htm

The Ezzo plan, or ANY plan for that matter, should be discussed with your doctor first! It could very well be that you have an updated version of the book that is not as extreme as the one described on this website. Hopefully!

 

Congratulations! And you are smart to be reading now when you have time

I got the Happiest Baby on the Block DVD from someone and we did use some of his principles and it worked well. We swaddled until they could break out (their found a way to get their hands and arms up and out of the neck hole of their sleepers- took a picture of that one!). What really worked and continues to work is shushing them. Holding them close and shushing in their ear calms them down. I don't do it as loud as he did it on the DVD though.

Never read Babywise. My kiddos were in the NICU and came home on a strict feeding schedule that we had to adhere to for several months. It doesn't sound like we would have been able to follow it anyway.

Congrats again! -Leighann

 

Havnet'
read babywise so cant' comment. I completely agree with the pp who noted that different books say different things; at some point you start to trust yourself and figure it out for yourself. I personally did not believe in scheduled feedings; I bf'd and pumped and bottle fed the one who didnt' latch. As pp said; although I had all kinds of visions of what it would be like (tandem bfing til they were toddlers, cloth diapers, etc..), reality of early babies, NICU time, reflux and just the individual preferences of my girls had things turn out differently.

I thnk the best thing you can do is just pay attention to your babies and trust your own instincts. Our pedi told us not to let them go more than three hours when they were small (although the darn NICU had them on a FOUR hour schedule for their convenienc e- until i raised He** about it!).

I loved Happiest Baby; swaddling definitely worked and we used the Miracle Blankets which are not inexpensive (about thirty bucks each) but were worth thier weight in gold for the calming effect. We noticed a big difference in their ability to fall and stay asleep between swaddled and not, and they didnt' break out of them til they were almost six months old.

Shushing also worked really well in conjunction - basically all the 5s's. I also really like what he has to say about the 'fourth trimester'; i think that's right, and since so many cultures around the world keep babies close all day, and only in the 19th and 20th century western world do we stick babies alone, i think it goes far to creating secure, happy babies.

And - you are only one person and there are two of them, so at some point someone will cry. It will break your heart at first but you'll learn to distinguish between their cries; hungry, i want attention, i'm tired, etc..

 

oh, and one more thing. I got all stressed out reading La Leche literature about how if my babies didn't nurse the minute they were born they would never eally bond with me, and if they ever had a bottle they'd never learn to latch....well, they were in the NICU for three weeks, and one did latch beautifully adn one didn't. And we have bonded perfectly, so - take things with a grain of salt!

 

Happiest baby on the block is great. Super helpful for the first three months. As for the other stuff, there are no text-book babies, so I dont think one way is right for everyone. But reading up and having a lot of ideas is great....so when you get to know your baby you can figure out what is working and what isn't. My oldest slept through the night by 6 weeks with no effort on my part, and my twins are still waking up 1-2x a night. They are all just so different! I think establishing a routine early on helps, but you've also got to have some flexibility to keep your sanity!

Reyna

 

Happiest Baby on the Block is brilliant!! Our pedi recommended it to us, we watched the DVD and it makes so much sense, that babies are in their fourth trimester. The 5 S's worked very well for us and I'm always recommending it to new Mums (in fact I'm always surprised to see babies under 5 months if they are not swaddled!) I remember an Aunt of mine kept saying it was 'cruel' to swaddle my babies but since she had not had a baby for 30 years, I just ignored her

 

Two thumbs up to Happiest Baby on the Block! It is an essential repertoire of soothing tricks.

And two thumbs down to Babywise. RUN, do not walk, the other way from that book. Babies have gotten very sick and even died because of Ezzo's "parent directed feeding" approach. Feeding babies is not about showing them who's boss, it's about meeting the most basic physical need. Babies need to eat when they're hungry, not when it's convenient for the parents. Also, if you're planning to breastfeed, trying to do it on a schedule is a surefire way of sabotaging your milk supply.

The American Academy of Pediatrics clearly states that the best feeding "schedule" is the one your babies design themselves. Just follow their cues and you'll be fine. Newborns can be chaotic, but over time, a routine will emerge without you forcing anything.

Be very, very leery of any book that tells you to make your baby conform to a schedule (even a flexible one) for your own convenience. Guess what? Being a parent is inconvenient. There are lots of good ways to make it easier, but withholding food is not one of them.

If you're looking for good baby care advice, check out the AAP's Caring for Your Baby and Young Child. It is a middle-of-the-road approach, like you're looking for, and best of all, it is medically sound. (Ezzo has NO medical credentials whatsoever.)

 

I think the main thing is to just go with your motherly instincts on most things. I highly recommend swaddling...and swings. We didn't do it with my first daughter, because it seemed like she hated it. I think if we would have worked with her more she would have done fine...I just didn't really know much about swaddling. She was a horrible sleeper as a newborn. My mom and other older people always put newborns on their tummies to sleep and that startle reflex was taken care of that way, but now it's recommended that babies sleep on their backs, so swaddling really helps. My mother or any other family member had no advice for me in the sleep department, so I had to learn on my own this time.

I haven't actually read Happiest Baby on the Block, but it sounds like really good stuff.

As far as Babywise, I had an older version of that book for about 3 days before I threw it out in tears. My first DD was 6 weeks old when someone gave it to me and highly recommended it. I was breastfeeding and later found out that 6 weeks is a typical time for a growth spurt. The book said to let her cry to sleep, no matter how long it took...that she was crying because she was tired. It would take her about an hour sometimes (during those three days) and then I would have to wake her to keep her on the "schedule." She was so exhausted from crying that she couldn't nurse well. It was AWFUL! I was so naive. In the end she was obviously dehydrated and I said "no more." For the next several days I think I nursed her about every hour because my supply had gone down so much.

I'm sure a more recent version has changed a lot, but I still wouldn't trust much from that man! Google Gary Ezzo. I guess the more recent versions have input from a pediatrician? If you plan on using formula, I'd say that type of "scheduling" is more doable, but you've still just gotta respond to the babies' needs. I'm sure the book talks about a "flexible routine", but when you become "routine/schedule" driven, you automatically become less flexible...believe me. Babies eventually get into a sort of routine on their own. I felt like his book (at least the one I was given) really inhibited bonding. And now I've read that several families who have followed his methods have children with attatchment disorders (i.e. they don't feel a connection with their parents). How sad!

It's great that you're looking into all of this now! It will really help you in those early days when you don't have time or energy to think about what you're doing.

 

First of all...whatever you decide to do, discuss it with your dr first.

That being said...we are a BabyWise family. I took the principles of BabyWise and used a common-sensical approach and it worked for us. It was very close to what my dr was recommending we do with our first son {now 6} so we did the same with the twinkies from day one. Ben and Sarah have been sharing a room and sleeping through the night since they were 8wks old. Now, sleeping through the night at 8wks (6hrs) means a totally different thing then at 15mo (13 hrs). I have always used an age-appropriate feeding schedule and stuck to it {of course using common sense}. When they went through a growth spurt, I fed them more and more often. I think it was easier for me to apply the BabyWise principles with the twinkies b/c I have an older child, so I felt more comfortable and intuitive about their needs.

I'm not sure if I helped you or not. If you are interested in more details, PM me and I will tell you what we did. Some ppl have very strong opinions against BW, so I don't feel all that comfortable going into that deep of a conversation. I just wanted to let you know that we used it and have happy, healthy kids

 

"The Happiest Baby on the Block" was a life saver for us in the first months.We still use a white noise machine and just stopped swaddling a month ago!

"Babywise" was a little too strict for me and my frequent feeders, but I followed the EASY routine from The Baby Whisperer and it's the same kind of thing, just a little more flexible.

By far the best book I read was Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child. I can't follow all of the ideas in there, but I certainly did follow the advice on napping to get my babies into a good routine.

 

thank you all so much for your inputs, I really appreciate it.

I do understand that all books are telling different things, I am just trying to find out the different ways there are, I am sure I'll find the best and happiest ways for my babies and us, of course everything will be discussed with doctor. I am very safety oriented, it took as many many years of struggling and tears to get pregnant and it finally worked for us with IVF, so we'll do anything what's in the best interest of our babies, that's for sure.

I might pm some of you ladies for more details...thanks again!

alexa

 

We babywised our kiddos from day 1. During the day I fed them eevry 3 hours even if they were sleeping, at night we let them go for a maximum of 5 hours as I was worried about them. Very soon we realized they did not want to be woken, so we let them sleep. By 5 weeks they were going 8 hours and by 8 weeks 12 hours. They were wakign up smiling and happy.

My son eats 32oz. a day and my daughter about 24oz. We are now on a 4 hour schedule. They eat 4 times a day at the same time every day.

Babywise worked for us. We were not ridiculously strict with it, but we did take some lessons from it.

1. Try and keep them awake after they eat. Do not feed them to sleep.
2. Make sure they are not snacking and that they take full feedings.......... if you are successful their blood sugar will not drop.
3. Use your common-sense to break the rules when you need to.

 

Hi Alexa - I just tried answering your PM, but it said your inbox was full, so I couldn't send it. I'll try again later.

QUOTE
1. Try and keep them awake after they eat. Do not feed them to sleep.


Interestingly, HSHHC says there's nothing wrong with nursing babies to sleep. Weissbluth even calls it a beautiful and natural practice, and has found that it does not cause any sleep problems. I'd take a pediatrician's word over Ezzo's any day.

(I don't nurse to sleep myself, except at "break glass in case of emergency" times, because I don't want to be the only person who can put my babies to sleep. But there's nothing wrong with it in principle.)

 

We found a happy medium...we went with the Baby Whisperer's recommendations. She is like a relaxed version of Babywise. She advocates routine instead of schedule. So the routine would be to eat, play, sleep, wake, eat, play, sleep, wake...Her thought on feeding babies then keeping them awake is two-fold. 1) Babies learn to fall asleep on their own without always have to have a bottle or nipple in their mouth, and 2) We wouldn't want to fall asleep after eating a big meal, why would a baby? I just liked her ideas and felt that they offered routine, but with flexibility. I could feed my kids on-demand, but still stick with a predictable pattern to our day. So I recommend checking out that book.

And I second the pps advice of Happiest Baby on the Block on DVD. Highly recommended!!

 

Babywise is very controversial, as you can see just from the responses on this post -- some people hate it, while others love it. And discussions about it can get very heated. It really depends on whether you fall more into the "scheduling" or "on-demand" camp....

On-demand folks will tell you that scheduling is cruel, will affect your milk supply (if you choose to nurse), and is unnatural for babies. Meanwhile, schedulers will respond with yeah, but my babies have been sleeping through the night since two months, take great naps and are thriving, so what's the problem? :lol:

I'd advise you to read Babywise yourself and see what you think. If it appeals to you, then great -- follow it with a huge heap of common sense, as PPs mentioned. (In other words, if your babies are clearly hungry, FEED them, even if it's not their scheduled time.) If you recoil in horror at what the author suggests, then you are not a scheduler! But you may find a basic eat-activity-sleep routine is helpful, as Kate suggested, even if you ignore everything else in the book.

I have lots of opinions about the book and the author, but again, this discussion tends to get heated -- feel free to PM me for more info if you'd like.

 

Just wanted to add to be careful with babywise in the first 3 months, especially if you are breastfeeding. Your supply will build with your babies direction. If you try to schedule it - it may not work for your supply. My babies ate every 3 hours with me often waking them for the first few weeks. Now, they are every two. I wll say that they would eat every hour if I would let them but I watched them for a week or so before determining that they were "snacking" rather than feeding so I put them on a two hour schedule, it took 24 hours. Now they actually eat a full feeding each time they eat and sometimes go 2.5 hours.

Good luck!