Giving mixed messages re: wake up time

I'm wondering if I'm giving mixed messages about the rules regarding when I'll go into them at night and in the morning and when I won't. Elias sleeps through the night and, when he doesn't, I know something is up (he had a nightmare last night, poor bubby). Ezra wakes up 1-2 times most nights. I do go to him. I've done CIO with them so I'm not adverse to it but we backslide a lot because of illness. It take so little to make Ezra go back to sleep I just feel like he needs me at those times and I'm ok with that. 99% of the time, it takes 1-2 minutes - either a glass of water (first time) or I just do a hug (second time). Trouble is that Ezra also always wakes up at 4:30 a.m. I know from experience that, if I treat that as a night wakening and go in to him, he thinks it is morning and there is also a 50% chance that Elias will wake up too and think it is morning. It is definitively not morning! It's pretty well impossible to get him back to sleep and it is not enough sleep for either them or me, so I have 4:30 as my cut-off time for when I don't go into them. I also have the Teach Me Time clock and they know that morning is when the light turns green. Do you see the issue? Ezra doesn't tell time. He doesn't know when 4:30 is. He wakes at night and I go in and then he wakes at 4:30 and I don't. Do you think that is a mixed message and do you think it is insurmountable. I really don't want to do a CIO it with him for night wakenings but if it is the only way to make sense of the 4:30 no go then I guess I'll have to. But I'm always afraid he's sick. He seems to have a weak constitution and he is always the one to come down with something first. Once he threw up and I didn't go into him until morning and ... well....I'm clearly more scarred by that than he is.

What do you think?

 

I would lean towards yes it probably is confusing for him. If you don't go in at 4:30am and he goes back to sleep on his own, then why go in before that time either? He has proven that he will & can go back to sleep on his own. It sounds like the night wakenings are more of a habit at this point.

Just a thought.....If you are always having to take him water in the middle of the night, what if you let him keep a cup of water in or near his bed. We let ours take a sippie cup of water to bed with them. That way you don't have to feel guilty about not getting him something to drink in the middle of the night.

 

Hmmmm.... It might be confusing to him, but if he is understanding the color-changing clock, then he should still be going back to bed at 4:30, too.

Here's what I do:

Bedtime includes a fresh sippy of water, and I only go in if abnormal crying lasts for more than a few minutes or a really distressed sound comes out (then I go in immediately). Otherwise, I don't go in until 7:30am, period. They wake up around 7:15 (sometimes not till 8), sing and laugh with each other, and greet me with smiles when I come in to get them. If you know that his 4:30 cry is not a real one, then I say you should ignore it... and maybe he will eventually not call for you unless he has a real need. Last night, Jacob cried out for about 2 minutes around 12:30am. It was probably a nightmare, but I did not go in because I always give them a moment to self-soothe. He was totally fine within minutes, and happy this morning. I think they are very capable at this age of self-soothing, but also at manipulating if given the opportunity. Honestly, I don't know what the heck I would do in your situation... just kind of thinking aloud.

Big hugs and best wishes for sweet slumbers!

 

aaah, the sippy in bed. If my Ezra is pissed off or wants out or is just awake and bored, he is perfectly capable of taking the top of the sippie cup or taking mouthfuls of water and spitting it into his crib. Granted, I haven't tried it for a while so maybe he's old enough now to understand. If he did make himself wet with water, would you get up and change his sheets and pjs or would you let him be wet the rest of the night. It's natural consequences but it seems kind of harsh...and he could be wet for a long period of time.

Also, what kind of sippies do you use that are guaranteed not to leak if they are lying down in the crib (they are in cribs still so no night table, etc).

Yesterday morning he cried...a lot...between 4:30 and 6:30. It was like the worst of the worst of CIO. It was brutal. Of course, when it was morning and I went into him, it took him 30 seconds to be happy as a clam. Oh, and he tried EVERYTHING to have me come in earlier - saying he had a big poop, saying his pajamas were wet, that his nose was dirty, that his foot was stuck. He is such a manipulator.

When I was little, my parents wouldn't hear me crying in bed and they would get mad if I came into their room. If I was sick (I had ear infections all the time as a kid) I would go cry outside their door and when I heard one of them waking up, I'd run back into my bed so they wouldn't know I did it. It was fairly scarring. I guess that's why I go in to him at night but you are right, he doesn't need me, he just wants me.

I also don't know if there is something wrong with me or something strange with them but I absolutely can't tell the difference between an I'm sick cry, I'm hurt cry, and an I'm pissed off cry or I'm scared cry. I'm always afraid I'll miss a sickness and somebody will be in pain through the night and not get help.

Last night Ezra woke up once and they both slept soundly until 6:30....bliss.

 

Mine are not able to take the lids off of the sippies. So, this is a non-issue for us. We use playtex sippies. I don't think any sippie is "guaranteed" not to leak. However, if the stopper is in right and the lid is on tight, they do not leak....at least we haven't had a problem so far. Maybe we have just been lucky. :unknw: If mine did end up having wet sheets or PJ's, I would certainly change them. If they continually took the lid off and purposely made a mess, then they would lose sippie privileges at night...I guess. Like I said, taking off the lids is a non-issue here. So, it works for us.

I think you just have to find what your comfortable with. If you are OK going to him at night, there is nothing wrong with that. Different things work for different people.

Glad you had bliss last night!!

 

Playtext Twist & Click Sippies

These sippies are great in our house - they have a click lid that is kind of tricky to open, and they do not leak at all if the rubber gasket thing (mommy brain is assaulting my vocabulary - I don't remember its real name!!) is in place properly.

As for the trauma, I don't know what age that begins to affect them... it's such a tough call, and I sympathize with all of your agonies. I have them, too, whenever I do CIO. However, if he's happy within 30 seconds of getting up, that seems to indicate he's not too terribly traumatized. I, on the other hand, was responded to at every little peep when I was an infant/child and it took me YEARS of very memorable childhood insomnia to learn to "self soothe" (if that's in fact what we are doing now with CIO). It would have been so much less painful if it had happened at an age that I didn't really remember and I was able to put myself to sleep more easily during childhood.

I would definitely change them in the middle of the night if they got wet, but I would do it with minimal talking and eye contact - just very neutrally & matter-of-fact, in order to not encourage the behavior.

So glad you had a good night last night - I hope many more follow!!

 

I am currently in CIO hell. Ezra woke up 4 times in 3 hours. I decided, OK, he's forced my hand, tomorrow I'll start sleep training again. He woke up again and refused to go back to bed. I eventually got him to lie down so I could put some covers on him. I told him that this was the last time I'd come in until morning. It was 2:05. Now it is 2:50 and he is still going strong. I can't remotely block it out. I'm so tense I can't even relax in bed let alone sleep. He's pushing all my buttons - he needs his diaper changed, his nose is dirty, he wants a hug. But, this is it. I have to admit, I'm a little relieved. I know it will work if I stick with it and that actually means I'll get to sleep through the night.

The hardest thing is to think of the remotest possibility that he has actually soiled his diaper and that I'm making him stay in it. He pulls out the poo-poo card all the time and it never is true but it never stops me from worrying what if it is.

OK. I'll stop my middle of the night ramblings. It just makes it easier to be concentrating on typing rather than listening.

This is brutal.

 

:grouphug: So sorry to hear about your rough night. I hope you were able to get a little shut eye eventually. Good Luck with sleep training. Keep us posted.

 

After 1 hour 45 minutes of crying, I gave in. I can't believe I did it but he kept on crying blanket blanket and it is cold in my house and especially in his room so I went in and put on his blanket, then he wanted a kleenex, then he wanted a clean kleenex. I gave it to him and then said "that's it, I'm not coming in again until morning". He cried for another 45 minutes. We are all exhausted and crabby.

When I went in in the morning, he was completely naked and freezing and had peed on the bed (thank goodness he didn't poop but if he could control it, I know he would have). Tonight I'll put their sleep sacs on too to stop him from doing that.

I went to the store on the way to work and picked up the sippies that Erin recommended and will try them tonight and say I won't be coming in. I don't know how to explain it to him though, why I'm not going to come in all of a sudden. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

Instead of CIO have you ever considered the controlled crying technique. That is what we used. It is where you put them to bed with your normal routine. If they start crying, you wait 5 minutes and go back in and check on them. You lay them down, cover them up and say it's night-night sweetheart(or whatever it is you say) and you leave. If they cry again, you wait 10 minutes. You go back in and say it's night-night, lay them down, cover them up and leave. If they continue crying, you wait 15 minutes before you go in. If you have to go back in at that point, you say nothing at all and do not make eye contact with them. Just lay them back down, cover them up and leave. Keep extending the time by 5 minutes.

Like I said, we used this technique to sleep train and it worked well for us. That way I could check and make sure that they weren't crying because they were wet, poopie, uncovered, etc.... However, you do not give in to demands of needing a drink, getting a kleenex, etc...

Just thought I would throw it out there. I know how hard it is to sit and listen to them scream and not know if something is truly wrong. This is one of the techniques supernanny recommends if you wanted to look more into it.

Hopefully the sippies you picked up will work well. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you (for a better night). Good Luck!

 

I did the controlled crying technique when they were little little. Right now I know from experience that going in will just make it take longer although, you are right, it would allow me to know everything is all right in there. It would also be impossible to get him to lie down to put his blankets on. He'd be gripping on to the crib and I would need to untangle his hands to get the crib tent back closed. He'd be screaming in fury by this point.

He had his first wake up at 11:55. It's 1:15 and he is still going strong. This is the boy who is capable of a 2 hour temper tantrum (if I looked in the archives, I think I'd find mention of one that lasted 2.5 hours).

I can't tell you how much I want to go in there and hug him. I will definitely go in there when I know he's asleep to get him covered up...and make sure he's dressed.

I think he's wearing down but he keeps on surprising me by piping back up.

 

OK. 1:30 and it's over. 1 hour and 35 minutes. Scared to go in and make sure he is covered up. I so hope he doesn't wake up again tonight.

 

That was the only wake up. I did go in and cover him up. If all works as it should, tonight should be easier.

 

Stick with it. CIO is so much harder at 2.5 than it is under a year. They fully understand manipulation by 2 and will pull out all the stops. Try to remember while you are listening to it that he's playing you. I never did the "don't ever go in til morning" thing for the same reason you are hesitant. I wanted to be sure they weren't sick or poopy. But there was no extra hug, no tissue, no drink, etc. I'd give them a few minutes to settle themselves then go in, feel them for fever, do the sniff test and if all was well I'd leave again. I knew then that they were okay so I didn't go back unless they'd gone back to sleep for a good while and then woke up again. Do your boys poop during the night regularly? By about 18 mos a night time BM was pretty much unheard of. If it's possible he might actually have a BM, load him up with a good diaper cream before bed. That way you are protecting his skin but can still sleep train. Good luck!

 

I have one that has mastered taking off the sippie cup lids, and also being able to make 'spill proof' sippies STILL leak somehow..

THISis what I have found works, both at nighttime and in their carseats. They have not figured out how to get the top off, and even if turned upside down and shook vigerously, the leaking is very minimal. The key is to make sure the top is on TIGHTLY before giving it to them. I've thought the top was on before, only to discover it wasn't on all the way.

We've recently even had to start leaving crackers on their nightstands, as one of ours will wake up WITHOUT fail at 2:30 a.m. to get a cracker. And DH falls for it EVERY time! LOL

They are definetely at an age that they can manipulate the situation if given the chance, and they WILL. The key is to not let them. Know when to go to them (distressed cry) and when to leave them (soft whimpering)

My problem is mine know how to unlock the door, they know how to undo the child safety knob cover - so now we have to turn the door knob around so the locking mechanism is on the OUTSIDE - that is our only way to keep our kids IN their rooms! We've tried everything else, they come to us! LOL

 

I agree...if you know that it will just turn into a power struggle, then CIO is probably the best way to go. Glad he finally went to sleep last night and didn't wake up again. It should start getting easier now.

 

Hugs to you as this sounds hard! CIO was much easier before they could talk and manipulate, for sure. No real advice, other than to keep it up. If you give in now, it'll just make things worse. I also wanted to see if you'd consider buying a video monitor. We just did this a few weeks ago, and the peace of mind it gives me is priceless. Mine are in beds now, so when they wake at night, I can turn the video part of the monitor on and see what they're doing. If you had a video monitor, you could see if he was naked, dumping the sippy out, had his legs stuck, etc. I bought mine on ebay for $100 (retails for $179). I also saw that Amazon had the same one on sale for $100 with free shipping. It's the Summer Day and Night Handheld video monitor.

 

Could it be possible that he's been at this for 3.5 hours? He started calling at 9:30. I was just turning out the lights (exhausted from the last few nights). I fell asleep at 10:00 which is unbelievable but I guess I was that tired. I woke up at 12:30, heard a little something I thought but then there were lots of sirens so I wasn't sure what I heard. I went to the washroom and by the time I was out he was in full force. It's 1:00 and he still is. I honestly don't know if I can stop from going in. The only thing that is stopping me is that he is calling huggie mommy over and over but he's also saying "go downstairs" which is where all the toys are. If he's saying that and I go for him, it's much harder to get him back down.

He's in a sleep sack so I'm relatively sure he's not freezing or naked.

 

Maybe he really doesn't need a glass of water or a kleenex but what if he really needs ME. What if in his developmental phase right now, what ever he's going through, he needs me in the middle of the night.

I honestly don't know if this is the right thing. I feel like throwing up and every muscle in my body is tense and trying not to go in to him.

 

Is getting a Video monitor an option? I have found that to be so helpful when making the decision of whether or not to go into them, because I can actually see what is going on in there. It is so hard, because you want to be consistent, but you also don't want to be negligent. Follow your gut. If you feel you need to go in there, then do.

 

I just saw this, so I'm dropping in to ask some questions. I hope by now you and him both have gotten some sleep. 3.5 hours is a long time and would drive any mommy insane. I am curious what your nap schedules are? Just trying to see if there are other factors that might be contributing to this. Are they still taking two naps? What time is their last nap? Maybe it's time to adjust Ezra's naptime schedule so that he is more tired at night. Also, do you have a nightlight in their room? Any white noise? Have you thought of trying some soft music..maybe its just too quiet. I'm just trying to see what the atmosphere of the room is like. My girls had a winnie the pooh that would light up and play soft music and they would often wake in the middle of the night and squeeze on it..it seemed to comfort them. Do you have anything like that that he could have, or does he already have something like that? Sorry, I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to see if there is anything else that can be suggested to help you out.

 

Well, last night was a horror show. I was so tired, I don't even know what happened. I fell asleep while he was crying which I never do. sometimes I woke up and he was quiet, other times I woke up and he was crying. I have the feeling that he was crying nearly all night long. Today I put him in his crib for nap and he started crying right away. I feel like I traumatised him and now crib means crying instead of sleep. tonight will tell. It is so very horrible. It's 9:00 and I'm going to bed right now. Too tired to do anything else and dreading another bad night. I hope I'm wrong.

Rachel - I'll answer questions tomorrow night, I'm just too tired (couldn't get to the computer all day). Thanks for taking the time to even try to problem solve for me.

 

How odd, I'm sure I just posted. We had a good night. One wake up and only for 15 minutes. He just woke up and cried out for 10 minutes but then stopped (it's pretty close to our morning time and they have a clock that turns colours for when I set it so I think he's lying in bed awake waiting to tell me the clock has turned). I can't write more as I'm going to be called for morning in a couple of minutes and have a few things to attend to first.

Rachel, I'll respond to your questions when I have more time. I'm just thankful that you are spending the energy trying to problem solve for me.

 

:banana: WOOHOO For a good night!!

 

So sorry you have had so many sleepless nights. Those will certainly take the fun out of motherhood. I would suggest getting a white noise machine or humdifier (which is what we use). It helps the kids sleeps and also helps them from hearing the other if s/he wakes. You obviously have to follow your motherly instict. However, I would strongly encourage you to try to stay away. He will be fine no matter what. You just don't want to support this bad habit that has developed. His immune system (and yours) will weaken with the little sleep you are receiving which will defintely result in illness. What ever you decide to do don't question yourself! As a mother . . . you are always making the right decision for you and your children. Good luck getting lots of good nights of sleep!

Just curious . . . how old are the boys?

 

Hooray for a good night! I hope tonight is much improved as well!!

 

Get THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :

http://www.goodnitelite.com/index.php

 

Okay, I know I've heard some of you talk about this, but thanks for that link. I just bought one, they are soooooo neat! It took my girls weeks to adjust to the time change..wish I would have had one of these then.

 

Hi all,
Just an update. I had those three horrible nights, then one good night. Yesterday, he freaking gets a fever and I was up with him all night long. Today I took him to the doctor and he has ear infections in both ears. Poor baby. And, selfishly, poor me as this is going to undo everything and I'm going to have to start over again.

Clearly, no more sleep training for a while....and just as he was getting the hang of it.

I bought the Teach Me Time clock that turns green at a pre-set time. It worked quite well in the beginning when Ezra was just waking up a couple of times a night. The third would be in the a.m. and I would hear "Green, Mommy, Green" and I'd go and get him/them. Amusingly, he did try to fool me and called "Green Mommy" at 4:30 a.m. one morning. Smart kid but Mommy can actually tell time.

 

So sorry to hear about his ear infection. Those things wreak havoc on sleep even with good sleepers. DS had double ear infections last April and it spiraled into over a month of me going to him every single night. Afer a month, I said enough is enough! He still had fluid in one ear, but no infection. We were able to CIO and in a few days, he was back to STTN. Hope this is just a short detour and you're able to get him back in he sleep training groove soon.

 

Aaawww...poor guy. I hope he gets to feeling better soon and you guys can get back on track with the sleep training.