Forward facing BEFORE a year?!?!

So I was talking to my sister who has a son who will be 1 next week about car seats that I saw on sale at Wal-mart. I mentioned they had some nice 5-80lbs seats and that they could be used rear facing till her son turned 1.
She said "Oh, he's been forward facing for a while now..."

Knowing my sister is always waiting on the edge of her seat to exploide in an argument, I just said, "Oh really?"

She went on to say that ya, it's perfectly fine, as long as he is able to hold his head up and hold himself up by his arms when he is on his tummy. She said that his head is also over his current seat - I guess they are still using his baby seat?? I don't know.
But all that, and his weight were all that were necessary.

I have never heard this before...but this is also coming from someone who switched her son at 9 months to cows milk....something I hadn't heard of either...so maybe there have been some major scientific research into these things in the past 2 years that I didn't hear about.

So, it sounds to me like she has an under one year old forward facing in an infant car seat?? WHAT THE HECK??

 

Well she is wrong and it sounds fishy to me.

 

I've ONLY ever heard 20 lbs AND 1 year to be forward facing - as a MINIMUM. I kept my twins rear facing for 16 months and will keep Elizabeth rear facing for a while as well. It has to do with the strength of their neck muscles. There is a video floating around somewhere of a baby in an accident that shoes what happens to their head/neck when forward facing. It would scare me out of having a baby forward facing! It sounds like he has outgrown the seat he's in as well! I would suggest taking her to a car seat checkpoint place and letting them fill her in!

 

I think it's very sad that your sister is willing to risk her son's life for...WHAT? What reason? Why wouldn't she just wait?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think your sister is a very selfish person. The worst part is that baby cannot speak for himself.

I would be just as frustrated as you sound. Is she typically the kind of person who doesn't like to be told what to do?

 

That's so illegal. In Colorado she would be charged with child abuse and have a lengthy battle with CPS ahead of her if she were caught.

 

She most certainly is not the type to tell she is wrong.
I am scared ****less to send her that link to that YouTube Video....like totally scared! I mean, it's kindda late now, her son turns 1 on the 8th...but as far as I know, he is STILL in his infant carseat. She said she has been looking for a new carseat, and she hasn't got one yet.

We didn't turn the kids till they were a year AND 20 lbs, which for my ds was on his 1st b-day, but for my dd, it was a while after because she was under 20lbs.

 

Oh my gosh- that's TERRIBLY unsafe! The current recommendation (and ask ANY cop who's been trained) is to keep them REAR facing until they reach the weight limit of the seat even if they're well over a year old. There's no WAY I'm turning my kids around until then. Yes, their feet get a little scrunched, but they're flexible and while I wouldn't want them to have a broken leg, I'd MUCH prefer that over a broken neck!!!!!!!!! Seriously- suggest that you both go and have your car seats inspected by a trained professional (the police or fire dept will have contact info) and they will definitely set things straight.

 

:angry: I hope she gets pulled over for a minor traffic infraction and then written up for child neglect.

The 1 year AND 20 pounds is a MINIMUM requirement; ask any certified child car seat specialist their opinion and they will recommend keeping them rear-facing as long as possible (meaning the upper limit --usually 30, sometimes 40 pounds-- on your convertible car seat).

BTW: here's the You Tube link Melissa was referring to.

 

Per previous poster the weight limit and age are a MINIMUM: i was told by one of those fire/police specialists that the longer we could keep them rear-facing the safer for them.

Sorry you have such a strained relationship with her, but perhaps if the information comes from a third party she will be able to hear it better. Poor baby!

 

There is a utube clip out there (with a traffic dummy) showing two crashes with car seats. One is forward facing and one is rear facing. The whip lash effect that happens in a front facing seat in unbelievable. after seeing that, I would keep them rear facing as long as possible.

 

Are the infant car seats (I am assuming you are talking about the ones that snap into and out of the bases) allowed to be forward facing? I thought that was stricly a rear facing deal. Also he still fits in an infant seat, he would still be able to sit rear facing. Crazy. Hopefully he is at least over the minimum weight requirement for forward facing. Even though he should have still been rear-facing.

 

QUOTE(PurpleNurple @ Jun 1 2008, 10:25 PM) [snapback]804761[/snapback]
She most certainly is not the type to tell she is wrong.
I am scared ****less to send her that link to that YouTube Video....like totally scared! I mean, it's kindda late now, her son turns 1 on the 8th...but as far as I know, he is STILL in his infant carseat. She said she has been looking for a new carseat, and she hasn't got one yet.

We didn't turn the kids till they were a year AND 20 lbs, which for my ds was on his 1st b-day, but for my dd, it was a while after because she was under 20lbs.


I don't think infant seats can be installed forward-facing. I can't help but wonder if she's pulling your leg -- trying to get a reaction. Maybe try telling her that some things she said have you worried and that you want to be sure you misunderstood her and then summarize what you think she said. I think it's a person's moral obligation to say something in defense of a child at risk.

There was a news story over the weekend here about a mother who had her 2-month old baby riding in her friend's lap when they got into an accident and everyone in the car except the baby survived without serious injury. The baby died when he was ejected from the car by the force of the crash. There were two other children in the car who were properly restrained for their age/size but there wasn't a seat in the car at all for the little one.

 

that is so dangerous! My girls are 18 months and are still rear facing. I intend to keep them that way for as long as they will fit. No joke i'm hoping until they are like at least 3! It is SOOO much safer!

 

Oh Debi, that's so sad!!!

Em, there's not a lot you can do - maybe check out her carseat firsthand. If the child's head is over it - tell her she's endangering him and leave it simple.

I ordered my carseats (britax w/discount for twins) from www.elitecarseats.com if she's looking for 2 (two cars or whatever) they will give a discount. They shipped quickly and I was so happy with their customer service.

 

Not only is it dangerous, but in our state (AZ) it is actually illegal to switch a child to forward-facing prior to the first birthday.

How scary!!

 

Mine just turned 20lbs (found out at our 15month check), and I'm nowhere near ready to turn them yet. I'm waiting until they reach the limit for rear-facing. That youtube video scared the heck out of me and DH.

Plus, I'm not aware that an infant seat can be installed front facing.

 

I didnt turn my kids around untill they were 1 and 20lbs and for DS he didnt turn 20lbs till almost 20months but I had turned him at 16 months.

 

Actually now days doctors are recommending rear facing until 2 years!!!! Necks are not strong enough to stand a collision! :hug99:

 

I wasn't aware you could install a infant seat forward-facing! Since he's about to turn 1, what about buying him a new carseat for his b-day gift? Maybe she would get the indirect hint! And he would at least be in a carseat that is meant to be forward-facing!

Unfortunately there are lots of people that just don't think when it comes to their kids' safety. Some friends of our family drive around all the time with their grandchildren sitting on their laps! The smallest is 18 months! The grandmother told my mom that they drove around like that all the time when their children were small and nothing ever happened. It kills me that their daughter doesn't put her put down about her kids and tell them that they have to be in carseats.

 

Yikes! We did turn our boys forward-facing about 2 weeks before their first birthday. They were 26+ lbs at the time. Anyways, I don't agree with turning it earlier than a year ( or so!).

Re: the cow's milk. Actually, I have heard of a LOT of people who put kids on cow's milk by 9-10 months. My kids were on it by 10.5 months. I have several friends who had preemies that their doctor's put them on cow's milk (I can't remember why) at 9 months. And, actually, (now don't throw too many tomatoes) there is quality research out there re: starting cow's milk sooner than 1 year. Ok, I am going to duck now, just in case any are coming my way! h34r:

 

QUOTE(ksugal @ Jun 2 2008, 09:19 AM) [snapback]805344[/snapback]
Re: the cow's milk. Actually, I have heard of a LOT of people who put kids on cow's milk by 9-10 months. My kids were on it by 10.5 months. I have several friends who had preemies that their doctor's put them on cow's milk (I can't remember why) at 9 months. And, actually, (now don't throw too many tomatoes) there is quality research out there re: starting cow's milk sooner than 1 year. Ok, I am going to duck now, just in case any are coming my way! h34r:



Over-ripe tomato in hand....source or link?

 

QUOTE(SweetpeaG @ Jun 2 2008, 11:30 AM) [snapback]805374[/snapback]
Over-ripe tomato in hand....source or link?


Yikes, I should know bettter than to just spout stuff!!!

Nap time will be over shortly (or maybe not, I hope!!!). I need to go dig out the two books given to me about that or try to cite it on the internet. I'll be back (terminator-style)...

And, don't confuse that I am saying you should...just saying that I don't think it is a bad thing. Our pedi supported starting early and there was some reason my 2 friends with preemies had to start cow's milk at 9 months...they were small, small kiddos still at 9 months...I can't remember why!

 

Ah, okay, I should be able to back up my statements or just not make them!

I can't seem to find anything on a quick search of the internet, so I retract my earlier statement re: cow's milk before 1.

We did it. Our pedi was QUITE comfy with us starting it at 10.5 months. I am quite COMFY with him. I also had/have a book (by Dr. Michael someone....does anyone know what I am talking about...it is like an A-Z guide to kids????) and he also supported starting cow's milk in the tenth month for the right candidates...kids who are healthy, high percentile charts, etc.

So, I will look for more research but in case I forget, I repeat, I retract my previous statement. It is simply my opinion that many kids are a-ok starting cow's milk at 10.5-11 months!

I am now removing my mask, put your tomatoes down, please!!!

 

Also some nice information and some good data / statistics. My twins were rear facing up to 15 months / 25-26lbs.

 

I won't debate the cow's milk @ 9 mth part but forward facing car seat before 1 YO is pure neglect. I am also amazed how her 1yo is still able to fit in infant carseat. My Older DD who was around 50% was out of hers at 6 months, even my preemie twins couldn't fit in theirs past 10 months (and they were born at 1.5lbs).

I wouldn't start a debate but just send her that youtube liunk, so she at least knows what she is risking.

 

We turned our boys right at a year and JJ hadn't quite reached 20 lbs yet. While I wouldn't have hatdone it earlier, the decision really is a parent's to make. You may disagree, and some will respond that it's illegal, but still it's not your decision to make. I would go so far as to say that deciding to turn them early is hardly neglect.

 

I would print this and drop it in the mail to her.
http://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

Here we have a program where you can submit a car and license plate number and they will supply the owner of the car with proper car seat info. Buckle Buddy is what it is called. Maybe you have a similar program.

 

My twins were probably 11 months when I moved them out of their infant car seats - they were still under the infant seat weight and height limits though.

 

Maybe this should be a spin-off, but what about being rear-ended with a rear-facing baby/car-seat. Wouldn't it do the same as the forward facing baby in a front-end crash? I guess I feel like I can be careful and prevent hitting someone with my front end, more than I can control someone rear-ending me!

For the record, my girls are still rear-facing, 21 and 22 pounds. Will be as long as we can. I've just always wondered about the above. I was rear ended by a cement truck with my singleton when she was 1 year and one week, and had just been turned to face forward. If she hadn't been, she would have had tail-gate glass in her face, and God knows what would have happened to her neck.

 

Where does your sister live?

i see you are in Canada. DO you have different laws there?

I had my kids rear facing until about 18 months or so.

 

QUOTE(kendall22 @ Jun 3 2008, 11:22 AM) [snapback]807401[/snapback]
Maybe this should be a spin-off, but what about being rear-ended with a rear-facing baby/car-seat. Wouldn't it do the same as the forward facing baby in a front-end crash? I guess I feel like I can be careful and prevent hitting someone with my front end, more than I can control someone rear-ending me!

For the record, my girls are still rear-facing, 21 and 22 pounds. Will be as long as we can. I've just always wondered about the above. I was rear ended by a cement truck with my singleton when she was 1 year and one week, and had just been turned to face forward. If she hadn't been, she would have had tail-gate glass in her face, and God knows what would have happened to her neck.


What a good point ... I would think, like you said, you can control forward accidents better than rear ones!

As for us, they are still rear facing ... mine are about to turn 14 months ... Jake is a chubby monkey at over 25lbs ... but Hailey was less than 20 at our one year appt ... so just out of pure laziness, I want to turn them around together ... so they are both rear facing ... I know they say rear is safer ... but I guess I'm not sure why ... I get that rear is safer if you have a head-on collision ... but wouldn't the opposite be true if someone smashed you from behind (like Kendall22 said) ... as of now ... we will stay rear-facing ... but I will probably switch them when Hailey crosses the 20 lbs threshold ...

 

To answer a couple questions:

Yes, we are in Canada, and NO the rules are the same. Child must be 20lbs AND minimum of 1 year old. I KNOW he is probably close to 25lbs right now (BIG BOY) and my sister has said that his head is above the back of the car seat (she stated that as a sign he could be turned around)...

I spoke to my mom yesterday about it - I asked what sort of seat he was in (as she has baby sat him and had to put him in is seat) and she said "oh, he gets to sit forward facing now!!" and I was like, "Yeah, I heard that, but what sort of seat is he in?' She *thought* that he was in a new seat for sitting forward in. But when I pressed her further (memory is not that great...) she said "He is in a nice seat that came with his stroller"....I said, that was his INFANT seat. She said NO, it was a new one...I asked her if it had a handle over it for carrying.....and then she remembered that YES, it had the handle and YES it was an INFANT car seat.

And I KNOW she does not have him in a proper seat because she asked my husband if we had an extra one and when I mentioned to her that I saw them on sale, she was interested. And she would have told me if she already had one.

I don't believe that they use the base, as it's just a hassle to move it from car to car. SO, if that is the case, he is sitting forward in an INFANT carseat that is strapped in by a lap belt. And his head is OVER the back of infant seat. Um...how can this be OK with her???

While I don't thing it's ABUSE, I think she could be easily charged with Child endangerment or failure to provide proper safety for a child, in the event that she was caught or worst, involved in an accident. And she is most certainly NOT supposed to have an infant carrier facing forward!! My mom even said that my sister and bro-in-law "what him to grow up so badly and are looking forward to him not being a *baby* anymore".

I did send my sister a lengthy e-mail with 2 links to youtube videos, hoping that this will show her how serious it is and it's not just something that she can deside based on what *she* thinks he is ready for. I have not recieved a reply back or heard from her.
He turns a year old TOMORROW...so now it's no longer an issue of him being forward facing, it's an issue of him being forward facing in an infant carrier!!!

I hope they get him a proper seat ASAP!

 

QUOTE(PurpleNurple @ Jun 3 2008, 03:49 PM) [snapback]807955[/snapback]
To answer a couple questions:

Yes, we are in Canada, and NO the rules are the same. Child must be 20lbs AND minimum of 1 year old. I KNOW he is probably close to 25lbs right now (BIG BOY) and my sister has said that his head is above the back of the car seat (she stated that as a sign he could be turned around)...

I spoke to my mom yesterday about it - I asked what sort of seat he was in (as she has baby sat him and had to put him in is seat) and she said "oh, he gets to sit forward facing now!!" and I was like, "Yeah, I heard that, but what sort of seat is he in?' She *thought* that he was in a new seat for sitting forward in. But when I pressed her further (memory is not that great...) she said "He is in a nice seat that came with his stroller"....I said, that was his INFANT seat. She said NO, it was a new one...I asked her if it had a handle over it for carrying.....and then she remembered that YES, it had the handle and YES it was an INFANT car seat.

And I KNOW she does not have him in a proper seat because she asked my husband if we had an extra one and when I mentioned to her that I saw them on sale, she was interested. And she would have told me if she already had one.

I don't believe that they use the base, as it's just a hassle to move it from car to car. SO, if that is the case, he is sitting forward in an INFANT carseat that is strapped in by a lap belt. And his head is OVER the back of infant seat. Um...how can this be OK with her???

While I don't thing it's ABUSE, I think she could be easily charged with Child endangerment or failure to provide proper safety for a child, in the event that she was caught or worst, involved in an accident. And she is most certainly NOT supposed to have an infant carrier facing forward!! My mom even said that my sister and bro-in-law "what him to grow up so badly and are looking forward to him not being a *baby* anymore".

I did send my sister a lengthy e-mail with 2 links to youtube videos, hoping that this will show her how serious it is and it's not just something that she can deside based on what *she* thinks he is ready for. I have not recieved a reply back or heard from her.
He turns a year old TOMORROW...so now it's no longer an issue of him being forward facing, it's an issue of him being forward facing in an infant carrier!!!

I hope they get him a proper seat ASAP!


If u she doesn't get a new seat, maybe go to the police station and ask their advice, maybe they would talk to her.

 

QUOTE(caba @ Jun 3 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]807425[/snapback]
What a good point ... I would think, like you said, you can control forward accidents better than rear ones!

It's all in the link that appymomma posted (I forgot to add the link earlier):

Statistics. According to Crashtest.Com, frontal and frontal offset crashes combine for about 72% of severe crashes. Side impacts are about 24%. Rear and rear offset crashes only account for about 4%. The NHTSA FARS database shows similar numbers. The odds of being in a frontal crash with a fatality or very serious injury are many times greater than being in a severe rear-end crash. Rear-enders are more common at lower speeds, though most injuries in these crashes are not as severe; typically whiplash injuries to adults, especially passengers lacking proper head restraint.

There are also differences in crash energy and "ride down time" according to the article.

 

QUOTE(kendall22 @ Jun 3 2008, 11:22 AM) [snapback]807401[/snapback]
Maybe this should be a spin-off, but what about being rear-ended with a rear-facing baby/car-seat. Wouldn't it do the same as the forward facing baby in a front-end crash? I guess I feel like I can be careful and prevent hitting someone with my front end, more than I can control someone rear-ending me!

For the record, my girls are still rear-facing, 21 and 22 pounds. Will be as long as we can. I've just always wondered about the above. I was rear ended by a cement truck with my singleton when she was 1 year and one week, and had just been turned to face forward. If she hadn't been, she would have had tail-gate glass in her face, and God knows what would have happened to her neck.


I had a feeling it was about physics, but was looking for a link!

Here's another one from Car-seat.org