Extinction CIO - What if there is really something wrong?

I'm in the same boat as some of you who are doing and/or contemplating extinction CIO for night wakers. Jackson is a good sleeper, but I feel like I need to do CIO for Jacob (he has sleep issues galore and currently sleeps in our bed because I was losing it getting up with him all the time... I know all about how bad this is, but I was over the edge with exhaustion... survival comes first!). I'm nervous about it because he's my skinny boy and does a lot of night nursing right now... I worry about him losing more weight. I also worry he will have reflux problems (an ongoing issue) and be all alone, crying and puking. We have a video monitor but I can't sit up all night until he falls asleep... he can cry for hours (yes, MULTIPLE hours), especially in the middle of the night... we tried it, once, a few months ago.

Anyway, I was letting Jackson CIO when he woke around 10 pm the other night, and it turned out he had pooped!! He has constipation problems and pooping makes him hysterical, so I felt realllllllllly bad when I went in after maybe 45 minutes and smelled it and realized WHY he was crying. I know poop won't kill a child, but it SERIOUSLY upsets him, so I felt bad for not going in sooner. This reinforced a concern for me: How can I feel okay doing CIO all night long, ignoring every cry... when sometimes they really do cry for a pretty valid REASON?

As you can tell, I am a CIO wuss. I've gotten infinitely better... but I still have a long way to go, especially with the middle of the night wakings.

Help me muster up the guts to go through with this... please?!

 

I did extinction at 11 months, at that point neither of my two had pooped at night in MONTHS so that was not a concern (though when you are in the thick of CIO of course you start to second guess yourself!). Mine aren't known for vomitting when getting super upset either.

If I were you and you just need to make sure they are okay, I would go in once they are ASLEEP and check and make sure it doesn't smell like poop, they haven't vomitted, etc. That way you aren't reinforcing crying but can also reassure yourself.

This is one of the joys of CIO, once mine were STTN I knew if they cried it WAS something that needed attention, before it could be anything, but mainly that they wanted mommy.

HTH

 

I'm currently dealing with this. Conner STTN, even through Aiden now, but it's Aiden we're still working on. We've been doing CIO overnight for over a week now with some nights better than others.

There was a morning that he was screaming on & off since 4am until I got him at 6am, just to realize he was poopy. He also cries when he's in a dirty diaper. I felt bad, wondering how long he had been in it.

Then 2 nights ago he cried off & on from midnight on...which was different for him since he had been improving. At one point, while he was asleep, I checked in on him to ensure he wasn't poopy, full of puke (he's also a puker), laying silly, etc. He was fine, so I went back to sleep. When I finally got him at 6am, he gave me a BIG smile & I noticed his gums were all lumpy, swollen, & BRIGHT red...so it's quite obvious he's teething now. I felt horrible not getting up & giving him something for it.

So I think we've taken a step back, I don't know. He's woken the past 2 nights, both before midnight (which was never an issue before...his night wakings were always after midnight). The first night I was at work, but DH gave him some teething tablets & an oz of formula (he hadn't eaten well before bed) & that was at 9pm. Last night he woke up at 11pm & I went in, gave him some Ibuprofen (he had some around 5pm before bed) & teething tablets and he settled & went right to sleep. I didn't turn on the lights, I didn't talk to him, I didn't pick him up. He didn't cry again til 5:40am, in which I let him go til 6...our 'set' wake up time.

So you're not the only CIO wuss. I don't have a video monitor, as I think that'd make my CIO experience a LOT better. My DH yelled at me for taking steps backwards by going to him at night now, but I can't just let him lay in there & scream if I don't know if his teeth hurt, can I???

Good luck with your night waker...it's frustrating, isn't it????

 

Erin,

This is probably not what you wanted to hear, but it sounds like Jacob is not ready to sleep through the night. If he has problems sleeping alone, needs to nurse during the night and can cry for hours, than he might not have the skills to self soothe. With reflux, he probably also needs to eat less but more frequently, which could include in the middle of the night. Sleeping twelve hours at a stretch is wonderful for babies, but losing weight as a result would be really bad!

It seems like everyone's kids here at Twinstuff sleep through the night by seven months (and some as early as two months!), but some babies just aren't ready until a year old or even 18 months. There's nothing wrong with a baby who needs his mom at eight months old. I think CIO works great for people who have kids who can easily sleep through the night but who wake from habit. It's seems difficult to me, though, for kids who puke when they cry, or who are constipated and need to be changed when they wake. Basically what I'm saying is that I think that some kids do cry for a valid reason some of the time.

Both of my girls are now pretty good sleepers. They take about 15 minutes to fall asleep at night and sleep for about 11 to 12 hours. However, if they cry in the middle of the night, I go in. I figure if they're crying, they need me. Some people wouldn't agree with me, but it's what works for my family. I ignore moaning and cries that last under two minutes, but for anything longer, I go in and pick the crier up. On average I am awakened in the middle of the night about once a week.

I would think that maybe you could keep Jacob in bed with you (because it's easier on you) until he doesn't need to eat as much at night. Then try again to get him to sleep through the night by himself. It might take another month or so, but it will happen. Good luck...

 

i am with trish i don't do CIO and my babies STTN most of the time. when they teeth they get up when they don't feel good they get up. if i hear them fussing i don't get up until i hear a cry. then i go in thr room and pick them up. my DD sttn and one night she woke up at 3am crying not loud but she never cries realloud. i went in picked her up and she was burning up with a fever. i always go in their rooms to check on them before i go to bed and if they cry then i guess they need me and i will always be there. my DS was teething with his top teeth and for 2 weeks he was getting up at 4am and would not go back to sleep so i took him in our bed and he went to sleep. this is the only way i could of gotten him to sleep so i didn't mind. now he is back in his bed and STTN also. if Jacob needs mommy then i think it's o.k. i can not see the idea of letting a baby cry for hours and not go in to soothe him/her. just to teach them not to cry. they are babies and they will put themselves to sleep when they are older. i say go with how you feel. if you feel comfortable with having jacob come into your bed once he wakes up then do it. he needs his mommy. if he is hungry and nursing at night that's fine also. i feed my kids when they are hungry and i hold them when they want it. i don't care if anyone thinks it's wrong i love my kids and i want them to know when you need me i will be there always.

good luck and don't feel bad he won't be sleeping with mommy when he's in high school LOL

 

I'm with Trish on this one. It sounds like he's just not ready, due to reflux and who knows what else. Even HSHHC says babies may need to eat at night up to 9 mo adjusted. Personally, I think some need it even longer. DS just started STTN recently, without us having to push him at all. DD still often nurses once at night, but it's all business - nurse and then right back down without a peep. (And I know it's not eating out of habit, because how early she wakes up to nurse is directly related to how much she nursed right before bed.)

There's nothing wrong with having him in bed with you! It really sounds like a good solution under the circumstances. With a little time, he will do better! :hug99:

 

I think I wouldn't do CIO, but that is just me. I can not stand for my girls to cry and neither can my dh. Both of my babies sleep with us and we don't think it is a problem. That is something that my dh and I discussed. Someday they will sleep. I feel like when my girls cry it is because they just need their mommy and that is fine with me. My oldest dd is 11 and she slept with me until she was in kindergarten and now she sleeps just fine(in her own bed). Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

I think there is nothing wrong with you not wanting to do CIO. I know my babies definately are not ready for it yet. Some nights mine go down without a peep, other nights it takes both me and DH to get them down. I would just do whatever works fine for you right now. My DS still sleeps in my arms every night. He eats every 3-4 hours (breastfed) and that is fine with me b/c he is not even on the charts yet for his weight. My DD will wake sometimes and just need her passy and she is right back to sleep. My ped told me the other day to go in the room, stay ONLY 10 minutes and then leave, if it is in the middle of the night. I have started doing that with DD. I will just go in make sure she is okay, give her her passy, wrap her up and kiss her and leave the room. I dont smile or talk to her or anything. It is all about business if it is in the middle of the night. This seems to be working well for us.

Good luck.

 

I think you may have answered this question for yourself when you asked...

"How can I feel okay doing CIO all night long, ignoring every cry... when sometimes they really do cry for a pretty valid REASON?"

Really - you can't. If your baby has shown you that he IS crying for a reason then I don't think it would be fair to you or him to do CIO. I consider sleep training to be a tool used when a baby is crying only out of habit - nothing else. My boys had severe reflux for months and months and I could not stand the thought of them screaming because they were in pain, or because they had spit up all over themselves and I didn't know it. So, I rocked them to sleep until they were almost 10 months old. And when they would wake in the night and cry, I would go in to sooth. Once I knew, for certain, that the reflux was better (and the teething was better, and they weren't stuck in their crib slats, and they weren't afraid of the dark... I made up new excuses each week ), THEN I agreed to do CIO... and we only had to do it for one night. So that meant they were ready. If they had continued screaming for hours I think it would have meant that they weren't ready and we would have continued to go in and soothe.

It's easy to get caught up in reading other posts on this board about babies who are sleeping great and who CIO worked wonders for... but the truth is that ALL babies are different and some just need more time than others. You don't want to make yourself sick with worry and guilt by doing something that doesn't feel right. If you really feel that the waking and crying is just habit then by all means... give sleep training a shot. But if you have any kind of reservation that your baby might really be crying for some other reason, then you may want to give him some more time so that the whole process isn't harder on both of you.

Good luck with everything... keep us posted!

- Carrie