Discipline question

Ok, I don't want a debate...we do spank our girls from time to time if certain punishment is warrented. Well, today, Morgan bit the 2 yo boy that I watch...he's got a nice teeth ring on his upper arm. Well, she got spanked for it. Now, I don't "beat" my kids by any means, but I thought it was enough to prove a point. Well, she literally turned around, smiled at me and then walked away and back off to play.

Are you kidding me? If I had done that with my parents, it would've hit the fan at our house.

Biting is NOT acceptable, especially when she knows better. And, this isn't th efirst time she's been punished and then just laughed while walking away. They are only 3, but what do you do when they totally ignore your discipline? It's really grating on my nerves when they do this to me....it's like if they could say it, they would say, "Haha, that didn't hurt, I do'nt care!" But, I'm obviously NOT going to spank them hard enough for it to hurt...duh!

 

sounds like you need to add time out to it also... use a timer thats what I do...

 

I don't know from experience, mine are a bit young, but maybe it's time to start taking things away. If you don't spank hard then it's probably like an annoying 5 minutes, and then she just goes back to whatever she was doing before. But If she can't play with her favorite thing for 2 hours, that might hit a little closer to home (no pun intended ) at this age.

 

I agree with both suggestions, a secondary punishment for sure!! I was reading that and MY blood was boiling. :laughing: Good for you for maintaining control after that. :huh:

 

My mom is an educational consultant and she has shared with me all sorts of studies on spanking and other forms of discipline. In general, it seems that spanking really isn't an effective deterent for small children. Timeouts, taking things away, and restricting priviledges are more effective for small children because they can then link the punishment with the crime. I don't mean to say that you shouldn't spank if it's what you beleive in, just that you are not alone in feeling that spanking doesn't always work. Your daughter might stop her biting quicker if you restrict her access to a favorite toy or leave her home when you take your other daughter out on a desired trip.

 

She is old enough to understand that there are consequences for negative behavior. In our house, that is a time out in their room for 4 minutes....which they hate. They cry all the way up the steps and into their rooms.

Our boys bit each other when they were infants, young toddlers which is very common. We would re-direct,etc. But they began biting each other (no others) on purpose when they were around 3 and fully verbal and aware of their actions. We set up a particular consequence and it stopped the biting behavior in its tracks!! If anyone bit they got soap in their mouths. IT WORKED! After one time of soap, it never happened again.

I know it sounds cruel but a dap of non-deodorant soap isn't harming them. I preferred it to spanking. It sent a clear message for a zero tolerance for biting and for us it worked. They still threaten each other saying ...."you better never bite me or you're getting the soap!"

 

I had the same prob, after talking to my ped. He sugested time out in their bedroom. I started this and it seems to work. They don't like going to bedroom cuz they can't see what going on out in living room. They only stay there for a small amount of time with the door open. I also use the timer for them.

 

I don't really have any advice, just wanted to sympathize with you. Mine have done that too after a swat on the bottom or when put in time out they laugh and smile the whole time. It is EXTREMELY frustrating to say the least.

 

Mine are younger but wanted to thank you for this post, some great advice on here that I will keep in mind for sure!

 

Let me start by saying that I have not been there done that, but I have thought a lot about how I intent to handle these things when the time comes and have talked it through extensively with my mother, who has over 20 years of experience with preschool and kindergarten. So this is really just my brainstorm, and if it helps you, then great!

What about adding a positive reinforcement element to a time out? I know that one of the most basic psychology principles is that positive reinforcement (rewarding good behavior - as opposed to punishing bad behavior) is generally the most effective way to influence behavior. (Even as adults, aren't we more motivated to do a better job if we get a bonus for it, as opposed to simply working hard to avoid getting fired?) But I think for small children, it might make the most sense to incorporate a reward with a punishment for maximum results.

So the time out would be the immediate punishment - immediately after she bites, she goes in time out, so she has an immediate connection between the bad behavior and the consequence. But then I would add a reward, such as, if you don't have any time outs for a full week, you get something in reward (a new toy, an afternoon out someplace she likes, extra tv time, whatever would work for her but wouldn't be too burdensome for you). You don't give a reward for every little thing - but the toy would be the ultimate reward after showing sustained positive behavior.

Good luck!

 

QUOTE(marcy874 @ Oct 20 2008, 06:26 PM) [snapback]1033821[/snapback]
I don't really have any advice, just wanted to sympathize with you. Mine have done that too after a swat on the bottom or when put in time out they laugh and smile the whole time. It is EXTREMELY frustrating to say the least.

Same here, I put Morgan in time out today for something else and I put her in the PNP in my room (that the 2 yo sleeps in) and shut the door. When I got up there she was singing and trying to climb out. It's seriously a joke to them...drives me nuts!

As for the other pps...thanks for the suggestions. Those are great and I will try them. I didn't think about soap in the mouth, but that's actually a good idea. I'm open for anything right now. I do send them to time outs i their room, but even if there's NOTHING in there (which there usually isn't), they still find something to mess with. I do take away toys/blankies, etc. but it still doesn't phase them much.

They are both typically really good kids, but today has just been one of those days and I'm literally about to lose my mind!!!!!

 

We are past our biting phase, but I sent mine to his room which he hate more than anything! Now he calls names, I tried everything spanking, going to his room, time out in a chair, thought about soap(but couldn't do it). What worked of all things, telling him Santa doesn't bring toys to boys who say bad things! Worked like a charm, he hasn't said anything for over 3 weeks. That is a lot of self control for a boy who just turned 3!

 

We do soap for biting too. It seems to work well.

 

Becky, at that point you remain PERFECTLY CALM, then you tell her that it's disrespectful and put her in timeout. Give her time to think about what she's done. When that doesn't phase her, you start taking away her currencies! Whatever it is.

When Martin decides that it's ok to hit, we take away his Wii time. Hit him where it hurts. (figuratively, obviously).

She's just putting on a show for the other kids! You cannot let her see you seethe about it. She's being "fresh" as someone else recently put it and that's disrespectful! GOOD LUCK! :hug:

 

My dd is that same way, I can be talking seriously to her with a slightly raised voice and she'll smirk at me. Gets my goat every time. Good luck. :hug:

 

One of my girls does this to me at bedtime and I loose it everytime she does it. I asked her if she wanted a time out and she said..."yes!!!" With a big juicy smile on her face. I then took her lovey away she cried like the dickens. Gave it back and she stopped immediately! lesson learned...don't ask. Tell them!!! Just a nother one where taking away prize possessions helps. Good luck! I'll cry the day she isn't afraid of time out during the day. She only likes it at bed time.
jena

 

I have education in child dev. and behaivor.

I remember once letting my daughter know if she did it again she would get a spakin. I asked if thats what she wanted or if she wanted to make a different choice, she actually told me she would take the spakin!! I think at this age there is so much testing that they do. I bet your daughter is also very smart? Sometimes the real smart ones you always have to stay a step ahead of. They try and out trick you! Have you ever seen " Parenting with love and logic"? It's a great book adn you might find it helpful. Good luck.

 

You've got some great replies from pps. In addition to what they suggested I wondered if a couple of things might help (once your child has calmed down from the time out you put her in for 'being fresh' after you smacked her): One is get her involved in making better whatever she's done wrong - ie ask her "why is X crying?" "yes, because you bit him" "what does he need now?" and help her to apply the boo boo cream or the kiss or whatever. The other thing is teaching her what to do instead - ie say in words whatever was annoying her etc.

One of our daughters cries when we tell her off or put her in time out. The other does exactly like your child and grins. It's very annoying. I just ignore it and continue with whatever I said I was going to do: put her in time out, confiscate the toy, leave the park etc. Then she usually gets upset, so I'm not sure she really understood before.

I don't think the smile means what it would mean if it was coming from a 7 year old. IE I don't think it's as disrespectful or cheeky or intentional. I'm not sure what it does mean exactly but I have theories: nervousness, uncertainty, trying to appease me, or just being unaware of the seriousness of their actions and my intentions etc.

 

QUOTE
In general, it seems that spanking really isn't an effective deterent for small children. Timeouts, taking things away, and restricting priviledges are more effective for small children because they can then link the punishment with the crime. I don't mean to say that you shouldn't spank if it's what you beleive in, just that you are not alone in feeling that spanking doesn't always work. Your daughter might stop her biting quicker if you restrict her access to a favorite toy or leave her home when you take your other daughter out on a desired trip.


That makes sense to me. Obviously, spanking is not working to deter your DD. You'd either have to spank a lot harder and inflict a lot of pain (and even then, she might not be fazed by those few minutes of physical discomfort), or come up with an alternative consequence that will really, really matter to her. I also like a pp's idea of positive reinforcement.

 

As Dr. Phil says, you've got to find her "currency" -- whatever it is that WILL matter to her.

We went through a very brief hitting phase when Nadia was 2 -- as in, she'd hit us if she got mad at us. Well, the very first time it happened, we took away TV for an entire day. The second time, we took away TV for two days.

And, it may sound cruel, but during the time that she would have watched TV, we didn't sit and play with her or entertain her, either. Nope, she had to find some way to entertain herself (not that this is a bad thing in itself, but you see what I mean).

Anyhow. The hitting stopped pretty quickly. For other egregious behavior since then -- especially after 3, when she knew better -- we've taken away her lullaby CD, so she had to go to bed without it. That was a HUGE deal. These days, the girls in her ballet class all go out for ice cream after class....we use this as currency. If she misbehaves, she doesn't get to go, even though all her friends are going. Again, a big deal to her.

I have a friend whose son (Nadia's age) was being so impossible that she snapped one day, and packed up EVERY toy he owned. Seriously. She put them in a huge garbage bag out in the garage. For a week or so, he had to just deal. And then, he could earn the toys back one by one with good behavior. He was a totally different kid after that, LOL.

I like the idea of positive reinforcement, but we haven't had much luck with it. Nadia is a complete monkey at bedtime, flails around, acts crazy, stalls, won't get undressed, won't go to the bathroom, and is just wild. This is while her baby brother and sister are melting down at the end of the day, so we're desperate to get her in bed, in order to soothe them...and then everyone starts losing it. Makes us crazy. So, we put together a sticker chart where she got a sticker for every bedtime task she did properly, and after she collected enough stickers, she'd get a treat -- lunch out with one of us, etc.

It doesn't really work, though. I don't know why. I often wonder if we spoil her so much that she doesn't feel the need to behave to get something she wants (which we need to change, and is a completely separate topic!)...

ETA -- oh, and um, 3 is an evil age, LOL. At least it was at our house! Not looking forward to going through it again times two!