Discipline - please recommend a book

My girls have been horrible lately. :drown: I don't know if they are acting up b/c they know a baby is coming or if 3 is just a really bad age. No one is STTN anymore. Any given night at least one of them is in my room. They whine, cry, fight, and throw tantrums way too much. They've started talking back to us, like when we are in the car if DH and I are trying to talk to each other they'll order us to stop talking. I don't want to stop them from voicing their opinions - they want to hear their music - but once we tell them we will not stop talking, that's where it needs to end instead of us getting into an argument with a 3 year old and then escalating to a tantrum.

DH and I were talking last night about how we don't know what to do. Bed time every night ends with me screaming at them. That's the only way they listen and stop coming out of their room to make demands for things - I need ice water! I need my slinky dog! I need this or that, until I lose my temper, yell to get in bed, and then they finally go to sleep. There has got to be a better way. Anyone have a book they can recommend?

 

I tell you, it's when they turn three. About an hour after they turned three my two pretty decently behaved children have turned into monsters. I cannot take them into stores anymore without one of them literally screaming at the top of her lungs (or him just crying pathetically). Alice had such a bad freak out on Saturday with her dad, that he left the store. I've had her crawling while screaming at the front door of Target not too long ago.

As for discipline books, rent the 1-2-3 Magic video.

Do you think you're going to have the baby on our birthday?

 

This is probably not what you want to hear, but the methods I've found the most useful in the long term are the ones that require the most work from me in the short term. I'm not a screamer, but I get irritated and frustrated very easily, and the most important thing for me where discipline is concerned is to learn not to show it. Stay calm and patient -- which doesn't mean giving in, it just means delivering instructions and consequences as unemotionally as possible.

Also, IMO, there is no magic solution. Good discipline comes from figuring out why the kids are acting out (not that there's necessarily any reason, other than simply being 3!) and how you can work with them to head off problems, or resolve them. And recognize that it's not necessarily going to make them behave beautifully in the short term -- sometimes, it's about getting the problems down to a more manageable level while you wait for the kids to grow into a nicer stage.

But as far as specific books -- Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles is a good one. 1-2-3 Magic works for a lot of people, though I haven't tried it myself. Love and Logic (there's a whole shelf of books for different ages) is a good concept, but I think it works better on slightly older kids.

 

Love and Logic for the early years is great, but like the pp said, it's a long-term approach. A parenting class teacher said that at 1-4 years you are basically programming them for future good behavior, you can't make them behave at 2,3,4 years old, you are just teaching them for later. I think a cool head (I fake being calm all of the time) and 100% consistency (I'm stubborn, so I'm good here) are keys. I also liked 1-2-3 Magic, as well as Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline and Playful Parenting. I would suggest you read a few and incorporate ideas from each into your family as everyone is different.

I'm enjoying the 2s as I know our challenging times are coming!

 

I agree with Bex! Once my girls turned 3, they have been awful! We use 1-2-3 around here, and it does work most of the time but they are now pushing it to the 3 (which they never did before). I do my best to not let them see my emotions, but admittedly lately I haven't been very good. I feel like I am yelling at them constantly! :gah: It sucks. I wish I had the answers. I will definitely be following this thread!!

 

I love the Love and Logic books adn don't agree that you can't have them understand and follow expectations at 2 and 3. Not that we haven't/don't struggle at times. But I love the books and the concepts taught in them. When mine hit 2 and started having tantrums I read the books and started applying parts to our days. We had a big improvement and I loved the 2's, seriously loved them. We had a few battles when they turned 3 but I was so sick with my pregnancy that I know my inconsistency didn't help. We still struggle at times but overall are doing much better. Good luck.

 

If I learned one thing from 1-2-3 Magic, its to not show you anger/frustration. I do say, the calmest voice I can muster "I am VERY angry/frustrated right now," but I try really hard not to yell. When I yell it just ramps my girls up and they are even worse. Plus I have to keep reminding myself that they are 3 and its their job to test their boundaries.

As for your bedtime battle, I had a similar battle going on about getting ready for bed after bath. Every night I would be on the verge, or actually yelling, because they were running around naked and wild and not listening. I had to change my expectations of the whole situation. I knew I was tired and ready for them to just STOP AND GO TO BED, but they were feeding off that anxiety. I've now started the whole bath/getting ready for bed earlier and I let them play around a little without me getting all crazy about it. And guess what!?! Now that I'm not yelling at them to put their PJs on (and I physically leave the room to go clean up the bathroom), they actually do it quicker than before! We still have our crazy nights, and I still yell sometimes, but its better. Maybe tweak your bedtime routine to start earlier and include something they are begging for (ex. another sip of water), and try to remain calm and see what happens. :hug: I feel your pain and I think it really is the age.

 

I forgot about the 1-2-3 Magic book. I have that one already, I read it about a year ago. I don't know why I remembered it as being for younger children. I'll have to read it again.

I hope I have the baby on our birthday...if not before. I'm so ready. Less than 3 weeks til this baby is full term.

 

Wait, are you talking about my kids or yours? :catfight:

Ok, now off to read the responses...

 

Completely agree with this. Ours turned 3 and talk about ATTITUDE! :crazy: 123 Magic works pretty well for us. Although, now they have started counting when I count...

 

Alrighty. With coming out of their rooms at bedtime and during TO (I send them to their rooms for TO), I warn them once "If you come out again, I will lock the door." And if they come out again, I lock their door so they can't come out. I have turned the door knobs around so the lock is on the outside and they can't open it from the inside when I lock it. I have video monitors so I can see that they are ok too. Once they are asleep, I will unlock the door. I've only had to do this a few times at bedtime, but I end up locking the door during TO more often than not. I refuse to play that game with them with getting out of their rooms a million times and making a million requests. With the lock, I physically stop it from happening because I know I would lose my cool otherwise.

I've been using 123 Magic, but I know I am giving them too much time between counts and otherwise giving them too many chances before finally giving them the TO. Honestly, I think they have stopped before 3 maybe 5 times, ever. So yeah, basically every time I start counting they end up in TO. It's exhausting.

Both of my kids also try to boss me around and my DD has a sassy mouth too. They've even started throwing fits in the car if I don't go the way they want me to go! DS will say, "Turn that way mommy!" and when I don't (because it's not the way to wherever we're headed) he tantrums. :gah: I try to explain that they do not get to tell mommy or daddy what to do, and I hope it sinks in soon. I never follow their orders, so they've got to learn soon enough that it's not working.

 

You gals are SCARING me!!!! Apparently I have 8 more months before all *%#^ breaks loose??? Good grief. :mellow:

 

We do the same thing with shutting the door. They hate for their door to be shut, so that's what I threaten. They are capable of opening the door, but all I have to do is shut it and they both freak out and won't open it. But if I follow through it only makes things worse for me, b/c I can't stand to hear the screaming when I shut the door, and the living room shares a wall with their bedroom, so if they are crying it totally ruins whatever DH and I are trying to do in the living room.

When you lock the door you leave it shut until they are asleep?

Mine are very bossy too. My favorite is when I tell Lily not to do something so she screams "YES I CAN" at me.

 

At bedtime, yeah. If I have to lock the door, it stays locked until they are asleep. My DD will pitch a fit for a few minutes and then crawl into bed. My DS could throw a fit for an hour, easily. Thankfully I've never had an issue with him getting out of bed at bedtime. With him it's more a tantrum because it's time to go to bed, and I will let him tantrum in his room for 10-15 minutes, then go back in to attempt to soothe, then leave if he's still acting insane, then go back in to soothe, etc.

I will say, it helps tremendously that they are in their own rooms though. Like I said, I've only had to lock the door a few times at bedtime. Now just the threat works. TO, on the other hand....the door almost always gets locked for DS. DD has a little more self control and will stay in her room.

ETA: I really do feel like I am raising bratty monsters sometimes now that they've turned 3. I am trying to take a long-term view like a PP mentioned, and hope that I am planting seeds now for better behavior later. I have my doubts though.

 

I will be watching this thread, my two turn 3 in less then 2 months and after reading this thread, DH and I are seriously considering :escaping: to the South Pole and leaving them with my Mom. In all seriousness, I am terrified for age 3. Mine went through a tough phase from 15-19 months and the 2's have been pretty decent. Time to refresh with the 1-2-3 Magic book it sounds like!

 

I was given the recommendation to this book - Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline. And yes its a long term approach. I just went to a seminar on this, and it really makes a lot of sense. several concepts are that you need to make what you want them to do fun, and then also the approach of remaining calm... and "downloading" calm to them. I'm learning about it still, and it sure is hard to remain calm sometimes!

oh one other thing that is huge is to tell them what you WANT them to do. Not what you want them to stop or not to do... I was so excited tonight at the store in the shopping cart my dd was licking her hand and it was grossing me out b/c who knows what was on the cart handle etc... anyway, I briefly said to stop, and all she did was keep doing it. then I said "put your hands on your knees"... hmm.. she did it! and it was enough of a distraction that she quit licking her hand.

anyway, with everything everyone is saying I'm a little scared about the future in 6 months when ours hit 3!!