dicipline

I've tried everything to discipline these two....what does everyone else do? "No, no" means minimal...Griffin has a temper tantrum when I say No. Gabriella is just stubborn. It seems like nothing works here. I think they're too little for time-outs, a diaper swat doesn't work, etc...Is this just a phase? I know they're smart kids and understand. I've tried removing them from the situation, but I literally sat in front of the dvd player last night and said no and removed Ella 36 times and she just kept coming back! My sister seems to think that for 10 hours a day, we just have to sit and police them- which we do, but at some point, I've got to go to the bathroom, cook dinner,rotate laundry,etc. She's constantly saying that at this age her kids...yada yada yada.. I can't find a way to be constant and consistent with 2 toddlers! While I'm on one, the other is getting away with something! Follow? Am I alone in this? Maybe my kids are just bad! Maybe I'm just a bad mom! Sniff, sniff. Any suggestions.

 

My jack and Lily are close in age to yours, 14 months. I think it is hard at this age because I also believe it is too early for time outs, etc... We have the same problem with the tv and dvd player. I also physically remove them and they run right back for it.
I have had a little luck with a few new concepts:

1. Instead of just telling them what not to do, I also suggest something else to do....like "we do not play with the television, would you rather play with the blocks or the trucks?"

---I sort of assume they are playing with the tv out of boredom and really try to give them some new ideas.

2. Also, I have been counting to 3 with my voice getting more intense as I get to three.

3. Also, I have really been vocal about rewarding positive behavior. For even little things I will enthusiastically say "that was GREAt Jack, GREAT job listening, or sharing, or handing (vs. throwing things at me. We are working on handing things over), etc..." I then give him a big kiss and hug and make a bit deal out of it.

Just some ideas that are working for me until we can try timeouts.

 

I'm glad that you posted this! Mine are almost one and I can't get them to understand no.no.. when it comes to the fireplace & TV.
My mother says to start popping their hands but, I think they are too little yet to understand why they are getting their hands popped.

Good Luck!

 

I think things like dvd player/tv are a temptation for the munchkins. We used to have our dvd player etc.. on top of our tv unit for the longest time. I know they have to learn not to touch, but sometimes it just makes your life easier to clear temptations as much as you can.

 

I am right there with you!

The other day we were having a play date with some twin friends and Parker went over to one of the boys and intentionally pinched him in the face, then he crawled over and did it to the other boy before ripping a toy out of his hands. There was a lot crying, but I was mortified that my son was being such a bully. I did not know how to convey that this behavior was not acceptable other than saying "no - we don't pinch" and removing him from the area. Parker has a temper and if he is corrected and doesn't like it, he throws himself on the floor. I try to ignore it and then deflect his attention to something else.

My daughter, Abby, thinks it is funny when I say no. She is experimenting with pinching, too, and it seems like the more I say no and remove her hand from my skin, the more she wants to do it. She is willful. And then she will smile or laugh...it is maddening! Once I got frustrated and raised my voice at her and you should have seen the pout and sad face she gave me.

Oh...this is going to be a challenge!

Jess

 

I have a different take on this and maybe sort of a strong opinion.

We have completely baby proofed our main floor. The DVD player, etc. are behind doors (locked) in a new (cheap but practical) cabinet, the glass coffee table, glass side table and dining room chairs have been removed, our outlets are covered, our TV is strapped down, we have baby gates on all of the doorways so our living/dining rooms are "kid zone" -- Evan and James have access to pretty much everything within "kid zone". Gradually, as they get older I'll re-introduce things as I think they can handle them. But I don't want to spend all of my time as the "no-no" police. I think it sucks the fun out of life and I think it's unrealistic for 16-month-old boys to keep their hands off inviting contraptions with buttons, etc. Yes, it's a pain for me to have no access to my DVR, DVD player, etc. all day. Yup, it's annoying to have no good place to put down my cup of coffee while I sit on the sofa. Sure, it's annoying to have to go down to the basement when I need dining room chairs. And climbing over baby gates all the time is no picnic either. But it makes life with the boys manageable.

You're NOT a bad mom - you want your kids to be safe and happy. But you might need to adjust your expectations of your toddlers and you might have to remove temptations from your living environment until they get a little older - if you want some time off from being the no-no police! Toddlers are curious. It's their job in life to explore - that's how they learn. So I believe you have to control WHAT they can explore.

I feel strongly that if the word "no" is overused, it becomes meaningless. So I try to save it for special occasions (i.e. No biting, no hitting, no pushing, no throwing, no running out into traffic, etc.). This was my philosophy as a kindergarten teacher (along with setting AGE-APPROPRIATE EXPECTATIONS for behaviour) and it's my philosophy as a mom.

Just my opinion.

 

CHJH, I'm right there with you (by the way, hi). The dining room chairs just journeyed to the basement this week. The first floor (minus the foyer and the kitchen) is theirs. I would go insane if I had to say No No No all the time. If one steals a toy from the other, they just look to me and I put my hand out to the thief and 9 times out of 10 they'll just hand it over without a fuss. Hair pulling is a big No in our house but I think we have eliminated most of the other opportunities for mayhem. (What am I talking about! Tonight they used their push and ride to climb onto the dining room table but we'll figure that one out). My folks' cottage isn't completely childproofed and I'm exhausted after a weekend up there.

 

i have childproofed most of my living room/dining area. i have gates up so they don't go in the kitchen and a gate in the hallway so they don't go in the rooms. they pretty much have full run of the upstairs and there is a gate for the stairs. now glass coffee table is gone they don't mess with the dining room chairs to cliimb on but i do have one end table with the lamp on it and the cats bed underneath that DS keeps trying to climb on a picnic table for toddlers i put infront of the table so he doesn't get to the lamp or cat. that is exhausting but it also keeps them both from going behing the sofa's. i don't know what to do with that yet. we are thinking about removing it from the room also. the tv has the cable box and dvd player underneath in a glass cabinet thats locked so they really pay no mind to that yet. but all day long i am saying no no no to my DS because all he wants to do is take the toys away from his sister. everything she has he wants and then she cries. DD just wants to play with her toys all day and doesn't climb on things and get into everything. she just makesa huge mess of her toys but that is her area and they can do whatever they want with their toys.

 

In the same vein of Tthe childproofing, I have two words....A gate. Well, THREE words actually.....A BIG gate. Yes, they still did other things, but I was able to block them off of so many things that would've sent me crazy. Plus, it corralled them into one area of the room (and it was a fairly big area) that had all that they needed.

The only times I took them out was for baths, meals and odds and ends. Other than that, I never would've been able to do all the things you mentioned (bathroom, laundry, etc.) By the time they got to 17 months, they were just starting to figure out that they could climb out of it, but by this time we moved.

Now? Yeah, now there's no more gate and they're trying to climb into the oven. Buy, hey, I had a good year and half of sanity! Right now it's a battle of wits....me against them.

They're winning.

 

I agree with CHJH.

I have babyproofed the rooms the girls and I spend the most time in so I don't have to spend my day telling them no - unless it is something one does to the other that causes screaming and tears. We do have a tv in there on a low table and they like to stand up at the table and try to reach the buttons. I could move the tv to higher ground, but I decided to try to teach them not to touch it because if/when we go to someone else's house that is NOT babyproofed, I want them to know that if I say NO, I mean it!

I also discovered that the harder I try not to get them to do something, the more likely they are to do it! With Breena - who is my ornery one - I tell her no, firmly but with no emotion and redirect her. If she does it again, I ignore her. When she fails to get a reaction out of me, she quits. But if it's something that could be hurtful to her or to others (like pinching) she gets one unemotional no and the next time she does it she's in time out for one minute. Time out takes place in a pack n' play that's in the same room but has no toys in it. I have also used timeouts for the tv button pushing because I'm not going to sit there in front of it all day and torture myself and both of them. By the time timout is over, they've forgotten about the tv buttons.

I have a friend that has 22 month b/g twins who have full run of her house. She swatts behinds, pops hands and yells lots of loud NOs. I guess it worked for her because her kids are pretty good, but she is frazzled, exhausted and constantly on edge because she's a Kid Cop all day.

I don't have the energy or patience for that method. I think you have to find something that works for you and that you can easily be consistent with...cuz that's what's key! Once you are comfortable with the discipline method you've chosen and you use it consistently, the kids will figure out quickly that you mean business!

 

After 2 or 3 warnings (or on the first time for big stuff like biting), we do 10-second timeouts, facing the wall. We say "NO BITE (or whatever they did)", then count to ten while we do the timeouts, and my DP or I stand directly behind the child who is in timeout. I have to say that it works really great for us. I think it removes them just far enough from the infraction (biting, stealing toys, touching off-limits stuff, etc.) that it helps to "reset" them. When they return to play land, they are much more well-behaved. As they get older, we'll lengthen the time but for now 10 secs is perfect for us.

I know people say this age is too young for timeouts, so I just wanted to share our experience-- for us, it's GREAT!

 

Honestly, I found 12-18 months to be extremely difficult. First of all you need to seriously take some deep breaths. Yes they are still too young to understand time outs and connect the behavior with the consequence (although some kids may be able to get it after a while) but that doesn't mean you can't give them one. When my girls were the age yours are now there were times that I seriously felt I was going to just lose it on them. Popping their butt, screaming my head off were sometimes uncontrollable reactions at certain times and it scared me. I started giving them occassional "time outs" where I would put them in a packnplay and walk away. But let's face it...that time out was a time out for ME. Since I couldn't just walk away to cool off and leave them alone, the only other solution for me to calm down and take a time out was to confine them for just a few mintues to a packnplay.

Also, try to be careful in how much you assume they should know and/or understand. It's so easy to get frustrated and THINK they should just know or know by now but they don't always know. Humans are curious creatures and babies are the most curious of all. They want to touch the buttons on the dvd player because they are fascinated that they can control and manipulate something in their world by the simple push of a button. Just as they can cause you to go all wackadoo (not saying that you really do that but ykwim?) by doing someting they shouldn't be doing. I found that when I finally gave them opportunities to do some of these things supervised that it got it out of their system. Either you have to childproof whatever you don't want them touching (and that may very well mean completely rearranging furniture and taking items out of a room) or you need to teach them how to do it. For a long time, we had a gate around the front of our entertainment center so they couldn't touch the buttons or the tv. Now they are old enough to understand (though now and then I'll catch them doing something but they are much more responsive to the "no, no" now). For their first bday someone bought them one of those little tv/dvd/vcr players from TRU and they would constantly want to touch the buttons so instead of getting pissed off everytime they touched it, I actually taught them how to open the dvd player and put the dvd in and press play. They would turn the tv off constantly and then cry because they couldn't figure out why their show was gone :lol: so after several times of that and me saying "oh well. too bad. you turned it off" the excitement of touching THAT button wore off.

I think all in all if you try to embrace the idea that your kids are just really curious and really smart and that's why they do so much of what they do that it won't make you as upset when they do it. As said before and by pp, if they are constantly getting into things that you don't want them touching then that means that your house or the areas where they play are simply not babyproofed enough. Babyproofing is not just safety issues but has to do with protecting your important belongings and breakables and expensive equipment. My living room looked rediculous for over a year because I had to make sure they couldn't get in corners where wires were or get to the lamps (which I actually removed and only recently brought back in) or touch our cable box, etc. but I didn't care. In the end, my girls had free roam of the entire downstairs and I didn't have to worry because everything was locked up or removed.

Anyway, sorry for the long post but I know exactly how you are feeling and have btdt. I was feeling how upset you were through your post because I remember feeling that way. GL and hope you find some answers to help you.

 

14 months is a hard age, and discipline really doesn't work. What does work is distraction and re-direction. Like a PP mentioned, offer alternatives. Basically at that age, children don't have the cognative ability to "get" cause and effect. It really doesn't happen until around age 2.5 or even 3. Until they have that mental capacity, there really is no point to trying to punish them. While it may stop the behavior at the moment, they simply are unable to understand that X caused Y, so I shouldn't do X anymore.

I never put up a gate, or childproofed more than a couple of cabinets--one being the one holding the DVD player. I found that the less of a big deal I made about things, the more likely they were to leave them alone.

Good luck!

 

They are too young to control their impulses, even if they understand that the DVD is off-limits (but I doubt they truly understand). Distract and redirect and take all the temptations away.

 

My girls are a little ove 2 and they still don't get it. Nothing I do stops them when they're determined. We've baby proofed EVERYTHING and they still find things to get into. Time outs? Right. I'm hoping they'll understand before we go insane.

 

At age 1, distraction and really thorough babyproofing and limiting to small areas of the house. Distraction - offering them something else to do works well for most 1 yr olds.

Later on, time outs can be somewhat effective for serious things - like biting or hitting. But tantrums are going to happen. especially if overtired.

Mine are trying to give up naps, so they are overtired and very clumsy and accident prone. IT's a tough stage, but everything is a "phase". I also think NO can be overused. And I remember my kids laughing at me everytime I said it!

 

What I did....

count to 3....if they haven't stopped then put them in their crib or a pack and play for a time out. I still have to do this at times when they get angry and destructive and have asked me the same thing in a whiny voice 36 times...Sometimes I need a time out too.

 

I could write quite a bit on this subject as it something I've been very frustrated with lately.
I believe now more than ever, the key is CONSISTENCY!
Just this last week, I've begun carrying around a wooden spoon. I know some people think it is harsh or cruel, but I believe it is just the opposite. Spankings are not very effective at this age (diapers are very cushiony), so I've taken to a small swat either on the inside of their hand, or upper thigh if there's not too much clothing. The idea is to inflict a little sting. But I must say, my boys are actually OBEYING me now, instead of fighting me, and whining, and throwing tantrums when we have to get in the car! I talk to them about it a lot...for example, in the morning, I sit down with them, and show them the spoon, and tell them "boys, you see this? When you do not obey mommy, mommy is going to have to give you a swat", and I slap a little my hand to show them. I try to discuss a problem before it arises, and if they disobey, they get a swat, and then I explain why, and I give them hugs and as much comforting as they need. I can't believe how quickly it's caught on. I really haven't had to use it much, but I am trying to be as consistent as possible. I don't do counting, or multiple opportunities to do as I ask (there is still some leeway).
Right now we're really trying to establish the no throwing or dropping eating utensils or food. I gotta say it is working!

I'm also a big believer in babyproofing! I hated saying NO, NO, NO, constantly!!! It has gotten better recently though.
Good luck! You're not alone!

 

My mom had a wooden spoon and while it was effective for 4 kids I think it didn't demonstrate to us effective ways to deal with anger, problem solving, communication. My dad even more than my mom would result to a slap or a punch and it shut us up but still to this day all of us kids have an anger towards that "fear" instead of love and respect for him. I'm sure the spoon is working for you, but when your kids go to school or go to work they can't show their co-workers the "spoon" and say "see this spoon" .... what you teach them NOW is what they will use in the future for difficult situations.

You are offering them tools for their life. Have you ever seen those little boys who have a controlling mother.... end up with a controlling wife ? Things as simple as sitting in church remind me of getting a good slap for not sitting still. I remember my wonderful aunt for the one time my father was yelling at me and she came along and gave me a BIG HUG. Sorry for spilling the guts, I just thought I'd let you know the result of the receiving end of that spoon.

Heather

 

one twin book also mentioned that if they are fighting over a toy to put the toy up, whatever twin is left still waiting for it is the one whose toy it was originally.

 

I will tell you what we did at this age, and it worked WONDERS. I set up a pack-n-play, and I would start by telling them no. If they continued...I would say, if you do not stop you will be in timeout. Then if they continued I would put them in the pack-n-play for one minute. When they were about 18 months I started just telling them to sit for a timeout and they would, and they have always stayed put. The pack-n-play timeout worked so well when they were just learning, and it only took like 1 or 2 days of doing it, and being really consistent, before I hardly every had to put anyone in timeout at all.

 

Thanks for all of the advice..we took a weekend trip to my parents' non-babyproofed house and the kids were great! I couldn't believe it! I've decided to put the dvd and all that up on the armoir for safe keeping! I'm lucky to have had so many people relate! I think I feel the most pressure because of my sister, whose kids did everything she asked, when she asked.. :huh: Apparently THEY are the aliens! LOL...Anyway, I was beginning to second guess myself and our methods because of her condescending comments like I kept them caged like animals. She said if they don't learn now, they'll be out of control 2 year olds..etc. I just wanted to baby proof the place and like pp said, reintroduce things in a controlled manner. As a mother of twins, I think that's one thing I've learned. ALWAYS have a "controlled" experiment! Never change too many variables or you have no idea what the problem/cure is! I have renewed faith in myself after reading all responses.
THANKS!

 

QUOTE(heathertwins @ Jul 27 2008, 11:22 AM) [snapback]898432[/snapback]
My mom had a wooden spoon and while it was effective for 4 kids I think it didn't demonstrate to us effective ways to deal with anger, problem solving, communication. My dad even more than my mom would result to a slap or a punch and it shut us up but still to this day all of us kids have an anger towards that "fear" instead of love and respect for him. I'm sure the spoon is working for you, but when your kids go to school or go to work they can't show their co-workers the "spoon" and say "see this spoon" .... what you teach them NOW is what they will use in the future for difficult situations.

You are offering them tools for their life. Have you ever seen those little boys who have a controlling mother.... end up with a controlling wife ? Things as simple as sitting in church remind me of getting a good slap for not sitting still. I remember my wonderful aunt for the one time my father was yelling at me and she came along and gave me a BIG HUG. Sorry for spilling the guts, I just thought I'd let you know the result of the receiving end of that spoon.

Heather



I just had to respond to this from a few days ago. I'm sorry for the treatment you and your siblings received as children. It doesn't really sound like loving discipline or training. I do not condone, nor would I ever slap or punch my kids. My goal is not to get my kids to "shut up"; it is to teach them respect, obedience (which is a good thing), boundaries, etc. I believe as a loving parent, you HAVE to teach your children boundaries, and you have to enforce them at times. At this age, I need them to know what when I tell them "no" or to "stop", I expect them to stop. It's to protect them, not harm, or keep them from exploring. Trust me, my boys explore plenty, and are allowed to run, climb, be loud, be boys! But they still need to know that mom is in charge. There will come a time and age where they make their own decisions and have to live with the consequences. That is a gradual process that happens with parenting. We are going to do our best, with God's help, to raise boys who are confident, and compassionate leaders.
Not everyone should spank or use a spoon. Some parents would do it in anger, which is wrong. But in a loving home, done correctly and consistently, it can be VERY effective. There are many good books out their on the subject.
My husband and I were both spanked as children, and we don't hate our parents or resent their treatment. Instead, we both love and appreciate the discipline they instilled in us. We have great relationships with them now (and did growing up too), and love that they are a part of our kids lives as well.
I believe what I teach them "NOW" is going to impact their lives. And NOW is a great time to learn to obey their parents! I don't want to be waiting until they are teenagers to try and teach that.
I think we're mostly dealing with different ways of getting to the same end, so if timeouts work well for you and your kids, then I think that is great, and I respect that. I'm not saying my way is the only way, I'm just offering it as an option that has worked for many families in generations past and present.

 

With my first DD I did slap her hand for direct disobedience. I now think back on those days with sadness. I cannot ever imagine slapping the twins at this age. They still have so much to learn! As I get older, I get softer and more patient. This stage, EVERY STAGE, is temporary. And there are VERY clear rights and wrongs, and I will ALWAYS be the parent in control. But as my mom once said "Who is the adult here? More the stereo!"

They are only little once....