CIO -- questions!

Im the minority (here anyway) and dont do CIO. We use white noise, a classical CD, back rubbing, shooshing, a night light, a good bedtime routine including baths/baby massage/book etc.

Im curious about many things...my post is not meant to be offensive or blaming, its sheer ignorance and curiosity.

1. For those that USE CIO what were your reasons and at what age did you use CIO? If they werent twins but singletons do you think you still would use CIO? Sometimes I wonder if twins are just physically/mentally more exhausting and more parents revert to CIO because they arent sure what else they can do when they have 2 babies that need help sleeping. Im just curious if the reasoning behind CIO was influenced by twins.

2. For those that DO NOT USE CIO - what are the methods you use to help your LOs sleep at night?

 

My choice to do CIO with my girls had nothing to do with being exhausted or the fact that I had twins, but it had everything to do with teaching them how to self soothe, and be able to put themselves to sleep. My girls WILL NOT go to sleep if I am in the room and they can see me. Shooshing, back rubbing and the other things you listed did nothing for my girls. I started CIO when my girls were 7 months old, and it has been wonderful. My girls are excellent sleepers! If and when DH and I decide to have another child, I will not hesitate to do it again.

 

I thought I was a non-CIOer. With my older DS, I would just go to him whenever how woke up - way past his 1st b-day - and nurse him back to sleep. I vaguely remember listening to him crying on the monitor when he was over 1 - and never lasting more than a few minutes before I would get up and go nurse him back to sleep.

With my twins, I nursed and eventually had to exclusively pump b/c of latch issues that caused chronic mastitis. Sooo, nursing to sleep stopped way before I would have liked it to. But I continued to rock them to sleep and then go pump. Around the time they were 8 months old they gradually started waking more frequently after they had spent the past 2 months sleeping from 7pm - 3am consistently. It first started with Finley waking at 11:00pm - I would go rock him and go back to bed. Then he started waking at 9:00pm and 11:00pm - I'd go rock him. Then he started waking at 8:00pm, 9:00pm, and 10:30pm. I'd go rock him. I'm sure you are seeing the pattern here. Eventually he was waking up 6-7 times each night. It was, quite literally, killing me (well, not killing me - but seriously affecting my ability to function and be a good mommy during the daytime hours). About 2 weeks after Finley started this, Sullivan began doing it too. So, I was getting a total of 3 broken-up hours of sleep each night. 1 hour here. 45 minutes there. I was exhausted, the babies were exhausted, my older DS was suffering from my lack of patience, as was DH. It was miserable. Finally, one night when they were 9.5 months old, after I had been up to their bedroom 8 times in just 3 hours I decided I wasn't going in there again. I couldn't. I called my mom and let them cry. They cried for 30 minutes (I did go in in staggered increments - 10 mins, wait for 15 mins, go back in, etc.). They were asleep. They woke up in the middle of the night and I went in and comforted them. This continued for about 5 days. And then they were STTN. They had gotten into an awful habit that I was enabling by going in and rocking them. If I would have been bfing at that point instead of pumping, I would have nursed them. It would have created the same bad habit. I'm so thankful I had the courage to let them CIO (with staggered comforting) - I was desperate for sleep and really, so were they.

So, that's my story.

We also do the exact bedtime routine each night, white noise, patting, shooshing, crib soothers, fan, and small loveys in the crib.

 

I'd be curious to the definition of CIO too though. We had periods of fussing, maybe a little bit of crying for up to 10 minutes from about 4-5 mos on. I don't consider this CIO though.

What I do consider to be CIO, we did with my son at 8 mos. He got used to us getting up with him and comforting him every time he woke during an illness. When he was better, he was in the habit of waking and expecting to be picked up. You could tell it was an angry cry too. All his needs were met, he was happy as can be until we turned to walk away and then he'd turn on the "tantrum" crying. It was awful, I nearly broke down doing it. Luckily it took two nights and he learned to go back to sleep on his own. I would do (and have done) it again in a situation like this where I can clearly tell it's a habit. Sick, teething, bad dreams, going from sleeping well for long stretches to all the sudden getting up again - all these situations I would go in and soothe.

If it were a singleton, I believe I would use similar judgment.

 

QUOTE(DeniseT @ Jan 24 2009, 08:50 PM) [snapback]1161083[/snapback]
I'd be curious to the definition of CIO too though.


[SIZE=14pt]
Maybe we should do a poll ? [/SIZE]

 

I do both I guess. I will let them cry for up to 45 mins but sometime no more than 1 min depending on the cry. I know my boys have learned how to self sooth because I put them to bed awake and they go to sleep with little to no crying. So when they wake up crying (if it's loud enough to wake me up) I will go in there and rock and shoosh them for a couple mins until they are relaxed enough to go back to sleep. I try to listen to my babies cues as much as I can.

 

I have one stubborn baby. One sleeps very well through the night. I only had to make him CIO one night and that was it. he's a great sleeper and will give me 11-12 hours every night. The other one, however, has gotten his schedule a bit off from the usual. He too used to give me 11-12 hours, but then he stopped and wouldn't go back to sleep for more than a couple of hours through the night before needing his paci. He never needed food though, until recently. He will not go back to sleep until he has a midnight 7 oz. any less, he'll cry. He won't take rocking for very long cause he doesn't get his bottle. It started the night he woke up cause he wet himself. He wouldn't go back to sleep, so I gave him a bottle. I think I created a monster, cause now, he wakes up the same time regardless if he wet himself crying until he gets his bottle. I figure I'll indulge a bit, but soon I'm going to have to find a way to get him back to sleep without the bottle. His brother doesn't wake up unless Cameron screams. Unfortunately, it always builds to the screams if i don't get him his bottle soon enough. I just don't know what to do at that point. Do I let him wake his brother and make them both CIO? or save his brother's sanity, and get Cameron out of the room and let him CIO somewhere else then bring him back in once he's asleep again? ..or just give him the bottle until he doesn't ask for it anymore?


Sorry...I think I just hijacked a thread. I apologize for that.

 

QUOTE(Aeliza @ Jan 24 2009, 09:27 PM) [snapback]1161102[/snapback]
. Unfortunately, it always builds to the screams if i don't get him his bottle soon enough. I just don't know what to do at that point. Do I let him wake his brother and make them both CIO? or save his brother's sanity, and get Cameron out of the room and let him CIO somewhere else then bring him back in once he's asleep again? ..or just give him the bottle until he doesn't ask for it anymore?
Sorry...I think I just hijacked a thread. I apologize for that.


So at our house Ive got one bottle baby (DD)and one breastfed baby (DS). the bottle baby is my great sleeper, the breastfed baby not so much.
My two share a room also. On the rare occasion my DD wakes for a bottle, she wants it and she wants it now. Our house is normally dark at night with the exception of night lights so I pick her up, take her to the kitchen while I make her bottle. I sit and feed her and then put her back to bed.

I do not let them wake each other, and I would not make them both CIO (but Im not a CIO mama). When she wants a bottle she normallly will do it for 1 week or so and then she goes back to sleeping all night. I chalk it up to a growth spurt or that she really needs that bottle for one reason or another. Personally I would keep offering the bottle. If you do decide to let him sleep elsewhere I would start the night out in that place. If he learns that he cries you come give him attnetion (by carrying him to a new sleeping location) he might start doing that all the time too and then he has to try and sleep in a place that is unfamiliar...

sorry not sure that helps.

 

That does. I really don't like making them CIO, I never thought I'd do that myself, but I really don't know what else I can do. I always have the sound machine on and I try to calmly talk him back to sleep with shush noises and sometimes rocking if I have to, but nothing else worked but CIO. The bottle at night recently due to a growth spurt does make sense. I will not be surprised if Kiefer wants it next week. He always seems to be one week behind Cameron. I hope it is a growth spurt. It would make sense if it was.

 

I did do CIO with my twins when they turned 8 months. DS was intermittently STTN at that point and DD was waking up once/night to eat. They both would go down to sleep at night at 530pm with a quick kiss, cuddle and they fall asleep on their own (I have been doing this since about 4months old, and some nights they cry a little - usually no more then 3-5minutes though). This is just their routine now, and if I stayed in their room to try and help them to sleep - patting, shushing, etc, they would just think it was a game and time to be awake.
We did CIO for nighttime feedings at 8months, because they were eating a lot during the day, drinking a lot (BF), and I didn't think they really needed to be eating anymore at night, plus I was tired myself and wanted a full night of sleep again. I honestly think that even if I only had a singleton I would have done the same thing. I do think that at some point night waking/feeding becomes a habit and not need (and I didn't want to create bad habits that I thought would be harder and harder to break as they got older), so for me it was figuring out when I thought it was turning from need into habit. It only took a few nights and they really didn't cry all that long.

good luck!

 

I think that is a GREAT question... "What is CIO?"

Here's what I think it is....

Crying for 30 minutes PLUS.. and parent NOT going in.

For me, I got lucky and my boys begged to go to bed at 6 pm and slept til 6:30 am from 14 weeks on.. I did NOT have to do it so I cannot answer there. I can say that I would NEVER EVER rock my boys to sleep or rub their backs or walk them around or do AnYTHING that would facilitate them needing ME to get to sleep!!! OH MY GOSH. Nope. I knew when I was pregnant that I needed to have good sleepers and the best way to do that was to get them to bed drowsy but awake. Worked like a charm. I have NEVER ONCE had to go in and get my boys BACK TO SLEEP!! They are absolute champs at self soothing and they never took a pacifier or anything like that either.

Naps: I have let them cry when they are overtired. It has NOTHING to do w/ me being tired because I do get and always have gotten about 9 hours of sleep myself per night. But for the first year of their lives they did struggle with a few naps per week and I would let them cry until they fell asleep which was up to 20 minutes??

I have never felt guilty at all since I know what I'm doing and that in the long run it will help them to know to sleep without me or DH there. I have a friend whose kid is 7 and literally sleeps with the Father and mom sleeps in other room cuz he cannot fall asleep w/o his dad and WATCH OUT if he wakes up and Dad is in the bathroom or not there.... PANIC CITY for the kid. No thanks!!!

I believe that everyone does what they believe is best for their child. CIO is fine with me and if someone wants to feed their kids to sleep or rock them, that's cool too. For me, I did get lucky but I do believe that everyone will have a "I NEED CIO" experience in their life.

Super awesome question ladies!!! Oh and if my kids were NOT sttn by 6 months old, I would ABSOLUTELY have done CIO!! And would have never looked back

 

I did CIO with my 2 singletons before having the twins. With my firstborn, He was 6 months and waking every 2 hours to nurse, and I asked the pedi when he was supposed to STTN. The pedi recommrnded HSHHC. I learned soooo much from that book, it is an excellent book. I was prepared with my 2nd child and started CIO at 4 months, but I wasn't super strict with it until 6 months. With the twins, I was counting down the days until the 4 month mark so we could start sleep training. The main thing about hshhc, to me, is that after you have done CIO a few times, the babies understand that the bed is for sleeping. Then if you watch for cues and time your naps and bedtime before they get overtired, there is hardly ever anymore crying at bedtime. I am a believer in CIO, but only according to the methods of Weissbluth's book. It is IMO a very loving way to train your child to sleep.

ETA that when all my children became better rested after sleep training, they became so much more pleasant and less fussy during their awake times

 

Hmm...I think I can answer both questions:
1. We did not do CIO to go to sleep at night. They started STTN at 10 weeks so we were fortunate to not have to do it. What we did do was keep a bedtime routine (nighttime bottle, bath/general clean up, quiet time, lullabyes, and some soothing) and that did the trick.
2. We did use CIO for naps though. Our twins are horrible nappers. I do believe that us walking them around to make them tired did not help. DH and I still battle about this. So we do a modified bedtime routine for naps and somedays they go to sleep with out a peep and other days is crying until they fall asleep. I don't feel bad about it, they have to learn to self soothe and if they are fed, changed and safe-I have no problem letting them cry. Usually they are asleep within 15 minutes.

 

I would actually like to do cry it out for my 6 month olds, but the dr recommended waiting a bit longer, one of the reasons she said to wait is because they are twins, smaller to begin with ect (and they were almost full term, 5 pounds ect). anyone else heard anything like this? the issue is that one wakes up almost every hour (sometimes more sometimes less) for her pacifier that falls out.. the dr said they recommend pacifiers until a year and i shouldn't let her cry yet.. i should wait until maybe 9 months but for no go in and give her the pacifier.

anyone have any thoughts? just thought i'd share that.. it is hard and we are tired.

 

we did CIO (well, sort of - we went in at gradually increasing intervals to pat & shush for brief periods) with our girls at 14 weeks (8 weeks adjusted) to get them sleeping in their cribs (NOT to get them STTN). prior to that they would only sleep together in the sling will i carried them around. there were a number of things that influenced my decision - i was pretty much at my breaking point. i was getting such little sleep & the sleep i was getting was not good sleep so i was a mess during the day. i had no reserves for parenting during the day & would find myself crying for no reason. my doctor, ILs & DH were all concerned that i was crossing into PPD territory. also, physically my back & knees were killing me from carrying & bouncing them all day & night long (and it was almost literally 24 hours a day as they didn't like being put down when they were awake either). but the reason that really cemented my decision was that their sleep was fast deteriorating as well - they were just too big to both fit in the sling comfortably without disturbing each other & they were starting to wake up every time i talked, coughed, sneezed, whatever. even though i knew that we needed a change i was so sleep deprived that i didn't know what to do or how to start so we hired a sleep consultant. she came up with a personalized sleep plan for the girls & was a huge support & wonderful source of information for us thoughout the process. she was the best investment we ever made.

i don't know what i would do if i had a singleton - i think it would really depend on the baby. had i been in the same situation with a singleton, i expect that i would have done the same thing. had i had babies who had slept in their cribs, or heck even in their swings or bouncy chairs whether singletons or twins i would have been fine with that and probably not needed to do CIO. having now been through it though, i think it's a very useful tool & would not hesitate to use it again if needed with future babies.

 

I started with CIO at naps around 5 months, but honestly we've never had much of a problem with naps. They may cry for about 5-10 minutes, and if you go back in and try to calm them down, all hell breaks loose, and they will be up for much, much longer. I try to distinguish between the "I'm fightin' my sleep cry" and other cries.

Where I'm having more trouble is with the night wakings. If I just fed them at 7 and they're awake at 9 I'm not going in (unless there are special circumstances--they're sick, etc), but if they wake around 12, my sense is that they are hungry. (Last night they both slept from 7-1:30, a record.) My guys get bottles and are breastfed, and from what I can guestimate, they get 25-30 ounces of formula/breastmilk during the day, so they need about one more feeding. We've been trying to reorient their calories toward the day, but I just can't get them to nurse when they are not hungry. When I see exclusively bottle fed babies getting 8ounces 4 times a day, I think there is no way I'm gonna get my breasts to make 16 ounces a shot. My sense is that twin babies getting breast milk probably do need more feedings a day (unless their Mama is a super milk producer). However, that doesn't mean they need to be eating all night long at 7 months.

QUOTE(someone @ Jan 25 2009, 09:26 AM) [snapback]1161233[/snapback]
I would actually like to do cry it out for my 6 month olds, but the dr recommended waiting a bit longer, one of the reasons she said to wait is because they are twins, smaller to begin with ect (and they were almost full term, 5 pounds ect). anyone else heard anything like this? the issue is that one wakes up almost every hour (sometimes more sometimes less) for her pacifier that falls out.. the dr said they recommend pacifiers until a year and i shouldn't let her cry yet.. i should wait until maybe 9 months but for no go in and give her the pacifier.

anyone have any thoughts? just thought i'd share that.. it is hard and we are tired.

They recommend pacifiers? I missed that one. I've always heard more bad things about pacifiers than good things, but who knows maybe things have changed. I would be taking the pacifier away if it was causing that kind of trouble. I'm just curious why your doctor says it is recommended.

I think the part about smaller babies and pre-term babies is true. That's why people often use adjusted age.

 

QUOTE(sullivanre @ Jan 25 2009, 11:32 AM) [snapback]1161296[/snapback]
They recommend pacifiers? I missed that one. I've always heard more bad things about pacifiers than good things, but who knows maybe things have changed. I would be taking the pacifier away if it was causing that kind of trouble. I'm just curious why your doctor says it is recommended.



I believe the AAP now recommend pacifiers until babies are at least 1 year b/c they have found that babies who use pacifiers are less likely to die from SIDS. It is a fairly new recommendation (past few years), I think.

 

With my DD who is 14 months, I have never let her CIO before..and I never will. I say sometimes when I am upset and frustrated that I will, but it doesn't last more then 5 minutes. She is a pretty good sleeper and she gets overstimulated easily so busy days are hard for her. I do not believe that letting a child cry is teaching them to self soothe. What if you were crying out of fear or something, wouldn't you want to be comforted? But hey, I'm only 21 so I don't have this mass amounts of expirience, but I still won't let my kids CIO. My twins are still young where we haven't come in contact with the whole 'bedtime' thing yet.

 

QUOTE(Elisabethcogdill @ Jan 25 2009, 12:11 PM) [snapback]1161390[/snapback]
With my DD who is 14 months, I have never let her CIO before..and I never will. I say sometimes when I am upset and frustrated that I will, but it doesn't last more then 5 minutes. She is a pretty good sleeper and she gets overstimulated easily so busy days are hard for her. I do not believe that letting a child cry is teaching them to self soothe. What if you were crying out of fear or something, wouldn't you want to be comforted? But hey, I'm only 21 so I don't have this mass amounts of expirience, but I still won't let my kids CIO. My twins are still young where we haven't come in contact with the whole 'bedtime' thing yet.

I can understand where people think this, but it's probably safe to assume that not all types of crying are out of fear, right? I'm not so sure that running to a child every time they cry is helpful to the child (that's different from CIO). Kids cry and we can't always stop their crying, not all crying is equal. For example, crying because you want a toy and your brother has it isn't equal to crying because you have a cold and don't feel well. Crying because you don't want to go to sleep and are over tired is different from crying because you are hungry in the middle of the night. You know what I mean?

 

No CIO here & I have 5 children who sleep beautifully.

I am from the parent when they need me camp and that includes when I am sleeping.

I often nursed my babies to sleep. I loved it, they loved it. Win win situation.

Children will happily sleep through the night when they are ready.

 

You just use what is best for your baby. For our girls, that was CIO to establish a bedtime but then a gradual weaning from bottles along with shushing etc. to get them to STTN. Conversely, my DS needed to do CIO to learn to STTN. You can tell based on their personalities and how they learn what will work best for each child.

 

QUOTE(Callen @ Jan 25 2009, 09:37 AM) [snapback]1161452[/snapback]
No CIO here & I have 5 children who sleep beautifully.

I am from the parent when they need me camp and that includes when I am sleeping.

I often nursed my babies to sleep. I loved it, they loved it. Win win situation.

Children will happily sleep through the night when they are ready.


My sentiments exactly! I feel like they are only little for such a SHORT SHORT time. I feel its a developmental milestone like anything else and it will come in due time. I can help create healthy sleep habits and a predictable routine etc but I cant/wont force something on them. thanks for the comment!

 

We don't do CIO here. I feel bad waay too quickly. Though if my girls won't sleep, then there's usually a reason. They learned to self soothe around 2 months or so. We do a bath [or face and hands wash], massage, nice warm bottle, and then to bed. They've got a night light in their room along with a sound machine.

I don't think I've let them cry longer than 10 mins [usually 5]. If they're crying longer than that there is a reason and I go and comfort them. Especially during this time when they're teething. I don't want to let them CRY when they might be in pain..

 

QUOTE(E&Msmom @ Jan 25 2009, 07:05 PM) [snapback]1161472[/snapback]
My sentiments exactly! I feel like they are only little for such a SHORT SHORT time. I feel its a developmental milestone like anything else and it will come in due time. I can help create healthy sleep habits and a predictable routine etc but I cant/wont force something on them. thanks for the comment!


Short time is right. My oldest baby is 13 and I can honestly say that the time has flown by. I do not regret one moment that I tended to my babies, got up in the night, nursed to sleep.....it is all part of being a mother to me.

I know it is much harder to see the big picture when you are in the thick of it and so very tired. I have the blessing of many years of Mothering beneath my belt and can look back objectively and go over what I have done.

I know that I never ruined my babies by going to them when they needed me.

 

I did CIO for naptime at 4 months, and for STTN at 11 months. I am glad I did it the way I did, wouldn't change a thing. They still nap 2hrs everyday and always sleep from 7-7 with the rare peep (maybe once every 6 months and I always go to them in those instances). They are very attached to me and I to them, the CIO caused no harm. When you can't be as good of a mom during the day because of no sleep at night it is time to reevaluate your thinking, IMO.

 

QUOTE(E&Msmom @ Jan 25 2009, 04:47 AM) [snapback]1161051[/snapback]
2. For those that DO NOT USE CIO - what are the methods you use to help your LOs sleep at night?


We were very consistent with the same routine night after night,
after the last bottle, we held them, read them books, put on
a sound machine and put them in their cribs......

Even now, at almost 4, we do the same exact routine (minus
the bottles and cribs!) And if either of them calls out for
us in the middle of the night, we respond and everyone is
back to sleep much sooner than if we had ignored him.

I am also in complete agreement with the post from Callen;
that children will sleep through the night when they are ready.

If they are fussing, it is for a reason, and ignoring them
is not going to make that reason go away.....(IMHO!)

 

what i'm finding interesting about this thread is that whether parents have chosen to CIO or not, it seems that, for the most part, everyone has well adjusted children who are sleeping fairly well.

what bothers me about the whole to-CIO-or-not debate is the militant belivers on both sides of the fence - on the pro-CIO side you have the parents who think that those who choose not to CIO are wusses who are controlled by their children & need to learn how to set boundaries because their children are running amuck. on the anti-CIO side are the parents who think that anyone who lets their child cry is borderline abusing them & they are creating a generation of children with trust & attachment issues.

at the end of the day, each of us knows what parenting style works best for us & for our family and we shouldn't be judged for that. we each weigh the pros & cons of a parenting tool (whether that's CIO or something else) and make a choice that works for our family.

okay, stepping off my soap box now.

 

QUOTE(E&Msmom @ Jan 24 2009, 10:47 PM) [snapback]1161051[/snapback]
1. For those that USE CIO what were your reasons and at what age did you use CIO? If they werent twins but singletons do you think you still would use CIO? Sometimes I wonder if twins are just physically/mentally more exhausting and more parents revert to CIO because they arent sure what else they can do when they have 2 babies that need help sleeping. Im just curious if the reasoning behind CIO was influenced by twins.


We did middle of the night CIO around 6 months old. (I don't remember the exact age.) I did nap time CIO starting earlier than that, but I don't remember exactly when. It wasn't one time that I can definitely put my finger on, it was more like "I know they are tired and need a nap so if I let them fuss/cry for a few minutes so that they can get to sleep then that's what they need to do." I look at CIO as something I had to do - this morning Amelia threw a tantrum b/c she didn't want to take a bath, but I am the adult who knows what is best for her, so despite her fussing I got her to sit in the tub for just long enough to wash her hair and body. I don't let their cries deter me from what I know is right for them. I let their crying influence me to a point - she wasn't in the tub for as long as Lily - but ultimately I have do what is right for them. I view fussing at nap and bed time in the same way; sure they want to stay up late to spend time with me and DH, but their little bodies need sleep, growing is a full time job!

I have no idea if my view is influenced by the fact they are twins. I have no idea what a singleton would have been like since that isn't the situation I am in. I only know that CIO was the right thing to do for Amelia and Lily. I don't even know that if I'd had other twins if I would have felt the same way.

 

QUOTE(Callen @ Jan 25 2009, 01:37 PM) [snapback]1161452[/snapback]
No CIO here & I have 5 children who sleep beautifully.

I am from the parent when they need me camp and that includes when I am sleeping.

I often nursed my babies to sleep. I loved it, they loved it. Win win situation.

Children will happily sleep through the night when they are ready.


Exactly how I feel. We didn't CIO. My DS sleeps like a dream, but my DD struggled for awhile (it seemed to be really early night terrors or perhaps even nightmares, not sure). Our key was trying to make sure she got enough sleep (nap sleep plus going to bed earlier than she had been--at one point, we had gotten into a bad habit), white noise and/or lullabye CD, swaddling for quite a few months (partial swaddle as they seemed ready), nightlight, nursing before bed, a couple of books, and snuggles before bed. Also, good play time with daddy to wear them out in the early evening, and cluster feeding in the early evening so their bellies were full during the night. If they woke up in the night, we would rock/snuggle/feed/nurse them/snuggle them until they fell asleep depending on what it seemed like they needed.

Sometimes our DD does cry when she's going to sleep. We usually give her 5-10 minutes to settle, and then restart some of the bedtime routines. If either of them wake up during the night, one or the other of us goes right in.

Now that our kids are older (14 months) and sleep through the night most nights, I actually miss the night-time wake-ups. The warm, sleepy snuggles, watching their eyelids fall, feeling their bodies relax. It really is such a short time. Now our kids are so busy, busy, busy, I miss those sleep snuggle times. :blush:

 

QUOTE(Callen @ Jan 25 2009, 02:37 PM) [snapback]1161452[/snapback]
No CIO here & I have 5 children who sleep beautifully.

I am from the parent when they need me camp and that includes when I am sleeping.

I often nursed my babies to sleep. I loved it, they loved it. Win win situation.

Children will happily sleep through the night when they are ready.



I feel like I have the same philosophy as you - I parent when they need me. But, at times like the situation I mentioned in my first post - I do feel they needed me to give them some time to go back to sleep on their own. Waking every hour or 2 as a 9.5 month old is not necessary, it was habit. We could have continued like that for months (it had been going on for 6 weeks at the point I let them CIO out of sheer desperation). See post #3 (I think) for the entires story. But short story, my boys gradually began waking every 1-2 hours all night long - for me to go in, rock them, pat them, etc. They would wake as soon as I laid them back down.

I did not do CIO with my older DS as he never woke up every hour or two at the age of 9.5 months. I didn't necessarily want them to STTN, they just needed to sleep more than 1 hour at a time. They just began STTN at the same time. And just b/c I did CIO with them at 9.5 months doesn't mean that if they wake in the middle of the night, I just ignore them. Heck, we have a baby in our bed by 4-5:00a.m. 6 out of 7 nights/week. I still respond to their cries, I still comfort them, etc. in the middle of the night.

I love nursing babies to sleep, it is ideal to me.

But I just wanted to reply to this b/c it I don't think that just b/c someone lets a baby CIO they are not the type of parents that do not parent when their child needs them, if that makes sense.? It is so hard to judge others' decisions for CIO or non-CIO - all babies are different, and that includes sleeping. Sometimes we, as parents, have to make hard decisions - decisions we never thought we would make - but we all do (at least most parents) what we feel is best for our children.

Anyway, definitely not trying to start an argument here. I just wanted to say that I think others can consider themselves of the same parenting philosophies despite some differences in their parenting approaches.

 

QUOTE
1. For those that USE CIO what were your reasons and at what age did you use CIO?
- They were waking to eat out of habit- 6 months. They ate a lot during the day and I was sure they were eating out of habit.

-If they werent twins but singletons do you think you still would use CIO?
Yes.

-Sometimes I wonder if twins are just physically/mentally more exhausting and more parents revert to CIO because they arent sure what else they can do when they have 2 babies that need help sleeping.
It just took a few days and for us, it helped the boys learn to fall asleep on their own. I knew I was doing the right thing hen they would wake up happy as can be in the morning.

Im just curious if the reasoning behind CIO was influenced by twins.
Almost all of them friends/family did cio so I had heard about it from them before I had my boys do it.

 

I did CIO to get them to fall asleep on their own (tried at 5 mo adjusted, too early, tried again 5.5 mo adjusted, worked great). I never did CIO to eliminate night feedings, and they started STTN consistently when they were ready.

Sometimes I think I might not have done any CIO if I'd had a singleton. Then again, I might. Night feedings I didn't mind so much (and shared the work with DH anyway), but it is essential for my sanity to be able to just put them down for a nap without endless rocking/whatever. Ever since they started taking "real" naps, we've had a nice naptime routine, but once we go through that, I need to be able to just put them down and have them fall asleep. That need would probably be the same with a singleton.

 

QUOTE(sullivanre @ Jan 25 2009, 10:32 AM) [snapback]1161296[/snapback]
I started with CIO at naps around 5 months, but honestly we've never had much of a problem with naps. They may cry for about 5-10 minutes, and if you go back in and try to calm them down, all hell breaks loose, and they will be up for much, much longer. I try to distinguish between the "I'm fightin' my sleep cry" and other cries.

Where I'm having more trouble is with the night wakings. If I just fed them at 7 and they're awake at 9 I'm not going in (unless there are special circumstances--they're sick, etc), but if they wake around 12, my sense is that they are hungry. (Last night they both slept from 7-1:30, a record.) My guys get bottles and are breastfed, and from what I can guestimate, they get 25-30 ounces of formula/breastmilk during the day, so they need about one more feeding. We've been trying to reorient their calories toward the day, but I just can't get them to nurse when they are not hungry. When I see exclusively bottle fed babies getting 8ounces 4 times a day, I think there is no way I'm gonna get my breasts to make 16 ounces a shot. My sense is that twin babies getting breast milk probably do need more feedings a day (unless their Mama is a super milk producer). However, that doesn't mean they need to be eating all night long at 7 months.
They recommend pacifiers? I missed that one. I've always heard more bad things about pacifiers than good things, but who knows maybe things have changed. I would be taking the pacifier away if it was causing that kind of trouble. I'm just curious why your doctor says it is recommended.

I think the part about smaller babies and pre-term babies is true. That's why people often use adjusted age.


She said they are now recommending pacifiers for the first year as it might reduce the risk of SIDS. She did say some babies just never take to it so you can't force it on those.

 

QUOTE(mama23boys @ Jan 25 2009, 04:07 PM) [snapback]1161608[/snapback]
I feel like I have the same philosophy as you - I parent when they need me. But, at times like the situation I mentioned in my first post - I do feel they needed me to give them some time to go back to sleep on their own. Waking every hour or 2 as a 9.5 month old is not necessary, it was habit. We could have continued like that for months (it had been going on for 6 weeks at the point I let them CIO out of sheer desperation). See post #3 (I think) for the entires story. But short story, my boys gradually began waking every 1-2 hours all night long - for me to go in, rock them, pat them, etc. They would wake as soon as I laid them back down.

I did not do CIO with my older DS as he never woke up every hour or two at the age of 9.5 months. I didn't necessarily want them to STTN, they just needed to sleep more than 1 hour at a time. They just began STTN at the same time. And just b/c I did CIO with them at 9.5 months doesn't mean that if they wake in the middle of the night, I just ignore them. Heck, we have a baby in our bed by 4-5:00a.m. 6 out of 7 nights/week. I still respond to their cries, I still comfort them, etc. in the middle of the night.

I love nursing babies to sleep, it is ideal to me.

But I just wanted to reply to this b/c it I don't think that just b/c someone lets a baby CIO they are not the type of parents that do not parent when their child needs them, if that makes sense.? It is so hard to judge others' decisions for CIO or non-CIO - all babies are different, and that includes sleeping. Sometimes we, as parents, have to make hard decisions - decisions we never thought we would make - but we all do (at least most parents) what we feel is best for our children.

Anyway, definitely not trying to start an argument here. I just wanted to say that I think others can consider themselves of the same parenting philosophies despite some differences in their parenting approaches.


ITA, I totally wasn't trying to criticize other parents in the quote and in what I wrote. :hug:

 

QUOTE(miss_bossy18 @ Jan 25 2009, 01:52 PM) [snapback]1161531[/snapback]
what i'm finding interesting about this thread is that whether parents have chosen to CIO or not, it seems that, for the most part, everyone has well adjusted children who are sleeping fairly well.

what bothers me about the whole to-CIO-or-not debate is the militant belivers on both sides of the fence - on the pro-CIO side you have the parents who think that those who choose not to CIO are wusses who are controlled by their children & need to learn how to set boundaries because their children are running amuck. on the anti-CIO side are the parents who think that anyone who lets their child cry is borderline abusing them & they are creating a generation of children with trust & attachment issues.

I agree and after reading others posts like:
QUOTE(Callen @ Jan 25 2009, 12:37 PM) [snapback]1161452[/snapback]
No CIO here & I have 5 children who sleep beautifully.

I am from the parent when they need me camp and that includes when I am sleeping.

I often nursed my babies to sleep. I loved it, they loved it. Win win situation.

Children will happily sleep through the night when they are ready.



and re-reading my own: QUOTE(joyful noise @ Jan 25 2009, 07:00 AM) [snapback]1161174[/snapback]
I did CIO with my 2 singletons before having the twins. With my firstborn, He was 6 months and waking every 2 hours to nurse, and I asked the pedi when he was supposed to STTN. The pedi recommrnded HSHHC. I learned soooo much from that book, it is an excellent book. I was prepared with my 2nd child and started CIO at 4 months, but I wasn't super strict with it until 6 months. With the twins, I was counting down the days until the 4 month mark so we could start sleep training. The main thing about hshhc, to me, is that after you have done CIO a few times, the babies understand that the bed is for sleeping. Then if you watch for cues and time your naps and bedtime before they get overtired, there is hardly ever anymore crying at bedtime. I am a believer in CIO, but only according to the methods of Weissbluth's book. It is IMO a very loving way to train your child to sleep.

ETA that when all my children became better rested after sleep training, they became so much more pleasant and less fussy during their awake times

I sorta feel like I need to clarify:
My DS was in a bad habit and he needed me to help him learn to sleep. It worked so well and so fast that I started early with my OC. I chose to start CIO early, but I still go to my babies when they wake to feed them usually twice a night (per baby, if I'm lucky, they'll wake at the same time). I chose CIO for helping them go to sleep on their own, but I still go to them if they need me. We also have an extensive bedtime routine that we still adhere to for my older DS and DD. And I repeat some of those bedtime soothing techniques after night feedings/wakings. I will not do "throught the night" CIO unless I see that they are no longer waking out of hunger, pain, illness or any other legitimate need, but if the wakings become out of habit or to play I will institute it.
I don't know why, but I feel like those who are anti-CIO think those that practice it just toss the baby(ies) in their crib and shut the door and turn off the light. I don't think it's cruel if it's done thoughtfully and lovingly. Nor do I judge other sleep strategies. I personally don't think I have the tools necessary to get my babies to STTN without CIO. For those that do, more power to you. But I feel like I can only walk them up to the door of sleep, but they need to walk through.