CIO in the middle of the night?

i'm not a fan of CIO but it seems like we've gotten to a point where that's all that works. we've got some separation anxiety issues where they settle down and seem like they're asleep but the instant they sense we're leaving the room they snap awake and freak out. we've successfully done CIO at bedtime, although i haven't seen that magical "by the third day he went straight to sleep" phenomenon everyone talks about. <_< this weekend we had to start doing CIO at naptime because they just refused to settle if we were in the room. i hate CIO and i'm a very high risk factor for inconsistency, so DH has to constantly tell me, "they're okay, they're okay" to keep me from running back in there.

so we've got bedtime CIO and naptime CIO. now we're down to middle of the night wakings. jacob has gotten into this thing where he wakes up almost every night at 11:00. he's not hungry, he's not poopy, he's just zonked out asleep from 6:30 until 11:00 or so and then WHAM he's awake and crying. we went from pretty solid 11-12 hour nights to waking up at least once or more every night.

so do i let him CIO when he wakes up in the middle of the night? i have a hard time getting my head around that concept because i feel like if he's waking up, there must be a reason. of course i have to go check on him. but i'm also afraid that because we're getting him up and checking his diaper and soothing him, his body rhythm has now has a wake-up call scheduled for 11:00. what's worse is that he then wakes up again at 2 and again at 3 and again at 5. we're going mad from lack of sleep all over again because he cries in the middle of the night for no reason we can identify.

so the question is, once we've determined that he's fine, do we let him CIO? the idea of listening to crying for 30 minutes at 3 a.m. sounds so painful but waking up again and again and again hasn't been fun either.



i should also mention that there's some teething going on here, but jacob's behavior has been like this for a couple of weeks now and last night was the first night that i felt he clearly had gum pain to contend with.

 

I would suggest CIO. It will probably work. If you have a hard time with it why don't you let your husband be in charge. You wear earplugs and white noise and let him be the one to peak in to check.

 

I was wondering teething, my kids never ever slept good when they were teething. Have you tried giving some motrin at that time of night to help with the teeth pain? It has the added benefit of helping them sleep better! You can also try hylands teething tablets, they are homeopathic and worked great for my son, altho they didn't help my daughter much.

I would also do CIO, in fact at this point I probably wouldn't check the diaper or anything since it's normally *not* the problem...once you go in there once, kids at this age remember it! It's awful! So you basically have to re-teach him how to stay asleep, or at the very least get back to sleep himself.

I prefered modified cio for my kids. I let them cry, as long as it's just an upset kind of cry. When it turns into a frantic cry I go in and sooth them with out picking them up. Repeat as necessary. Ideally the frantic cry gets furthur and furthur apart and they just fall asleep.

CIO is hard, no doubt, but most of the time it results in a much better sleep for babies and parents! :hug:

 

QUOTE(piccologirl @ May 19 2009, 03:25 PM) [snapback]1319995[/snapback]
so the question is, once we've determined that he's fine, do we let him CIO? the idea of listening to crying for 30 minutes at 3 a.m. sounds so painful but waking up again and again and again hasn't been fun either.

I think if you go in and he sees you it will undermine CIO. Unless you want to use the fade technique, which you give 5 minutes and check, 10 minutes and check, and then don't go back in. However, that takes a lot longer than the hardcore not going in at all. I did it at 8 months old, and didn't go in at all. It worked for a few weeks, and then the night waking started again. However, I do have to say it's never been as bad as it was.

Good luck. It's tough to not go in at all, but it's also not healthy for them to get such interrupted sleep.

 

we started giving owen some motrin or tylenol before bed when he was experiencing teething pain and now that jacob is showing the same signs we'll do the same for him tonight.

i'm definitely concerned that i'm undermining CIO by losing my resolve. and when i lose my resolve i feel like it makes other times when i've held out seem cruel. like, i know logically the kindest thing i can do is let him learn to put himself back to sleep and trust that he's strong enough to survive a bit of crying. but the emotional side of me that still thinks of them as my itty bitty preemie baby boys thinks crying could be harmful. it's like i'm stuck back in week 3 when all i could think was that crying would burn calories they desperately needed to keep.

i also need to learn how to turn off the reflexive reaction. two nights ago DH woke up with owen and brought him downstairs to put some orajel on his gums. owen cried for a fraction of an instant when DH's finger invaded his mouth and immediately felt better. but that fraction of an instant of a cry in the next room was enough to have me up and out of bed and standing in the kitchen before i was awake. i literally woke up standing in the kitchen with the words, "what's wrong?" coming out of my mouth.

i'm just desperate for some uninterrupted sleep. :gah:

 

CIO is hard and teething can certainly throw a wrench into the progress you've made but stay strong. They will get the hang of it and then you'll all be sleeping better! Good luck! I definitely know how hard it is and how emotional it is, too. It's hard hearing your babies cry but try to remember that they are ok, they're just tired and trying to figure it out!

 

According to Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, babies until 9 months may still wake up two times a night for feeding.. eat and go back to sleep, if your babies are going to sleep at 6, it is possible they are waking up at 11 to eat, then again at like 3 or 4, this would still be normal if there adjusted age is 6 months.. so have you tried going in to feed them, see if they eat and go strait back to sleep? I'd try that before trying cry it out at that age, if you go in and they don't want to eat, just play, then i'd say yeah they aren't hungry, just do cry it out.

 

:hug: it sounds like you already know everything that you need to know & that you just need some encouragement & support so here it is: :hug: :hug: :hug: KUP!

 

It could well be teething, but it could also be force of habit. I agree with you to try CIO, it sounds mean, but it really does work. I fought doing it with my girl as long as I could, and then I could take no more. Sure enough, no more 4.30-5am wake up calls. Good luck!

 

QUOTE(someone @ May 19 2009, 05:12 PM) [snapback]1320193[/snapback]
According to Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, babies until 9 months may still wake up two times a night for feeding.. eat and go back to sleep, if your babies are going to sleep at 6, it is possible they are waking up at 11 to eat, then again at like 3 or 4, this would still be normal if there adjusted age is 6 months.. so have you tried going in to feed them, see if they eat and go strait back to sleep? I'd try that before trying cry it out at that age, if you go in and they don't want to eat, just play, then i'd say yeah they aren't hungry, just do cry it out.

they rarely eat. if they seem urgent we offer a bottle but if they take it at all (which they usually don't) they only do maybe an ounce or two. the sucking, however, does seem to offer the comfort they're looking for and they settle back to sleep. so i consider it more of a comfort issue than a hunger issue.

we don't assume, though. we offer a bottle if it seems appropriate and see what their reaction is.

 

If you think they are teething, I would dose them with Motrin before bed. It's fine after 6 months, and I think it works better for teething, and definitely lasts longer than Tylenol.

As for the CIO, consistency is definitely key. I found that going in at all would just make matters worse, so I stopped going in at all.

QUOTE
Good luck. It's tough to not go in at all, but it's also not healthy for them to get such interrupted sleep.


I totally agree, and so does my ped!

:hug:

 

How do you put them to bed? Are they going down after being rocked/held to sleep, and you lay them down asleep? Or are they going down drowsy but awake? The reason I ask is, if they are going down already asleep, then that might be the problem. They might be waking back up because they realize they aren't on you anymore. I also had to do CIO for being held to sleep. I saw Dr. Ferber on the Today show while I was going through this problem, and he addressed being held to sleep. He said if you're going to hold the baby to sleep, then co-sleep. Otherwise, don't do it, because the baby fell asleep on you, and then is confused when she wakes. It's like if you fell asleep in bed and woke up in the kitchen. I swear, I felt like he was talking directly to me! :lol:

If they are not waking for a bottle, then I would do CIO. When I did it at 10 months for Ainsley, I have to say, I was honestly SO exhausted, that I just shut off the monitor and went back to sleep. I'm not even sure how long she cried. I know that sounds horrible, but I was alone at the time and was about ready to go off the deep end. After a few days though, she was sleeping through and I was a much better person.

 

we put them down awake most nights. sometimes they're so tired that they fall asleep during their last bottle but that's a rare occasion. by and large they're tired and ready for a night's sleep when we put them down but they're still awake.

sometimes they're a little wired when they go down so i wouldn't always say they're drowsy. we do daycare and they're so excited to see us that it's hard to get them to want to lay down. we give them time to just be held quietly and let them touch our faces or give us kisses until they seem like they're ready to lie down. some nights it's easy. other nights it's hard. none of the things that are considered "relaxing" before bed actually relax them. they play and splash in the tub, they kick and laugh and babble during their last bottle, and they get bug-eyed with wonder when i read them a story with pictures.

but that initial bit of sleep isn't the problem anyway. even if they do cry for a bit it's usually less than 10 minutes (and not often that long). it's the 11:00 awakening and then the 4:00 awakening. jacob woke up screaming last night at midnight and calmed down after DH applied some orajel to his gums and owen woke up crying at 4:00. in neither case was it a hunger issue. i'm not convinced owen's issue this morning was teething.

it's like they have a sleep rhythm and they're coming up shallow during those times and waking up just enough to cry hysterically. this is where we're trying to figure out if CIO is our only remaining option to get them to sleep through.

 

QUOTE(piccologirl @ May 20 2009, 08:59 AM) [snapback]1321085[/snapback]
it's like they have a sleep rhythm and they're coming up shallow during those times and waking up just enough to cry hysterically.

Yes, exactly. It's most likely a habit. GL with your decision, I know it's tough to do CIO, but it's so worth it to have babies that sleep through! Both for them and you. Jake was so much happier during the day without the wake-ups.

 

We are dealing with this at our house with my little guy and I will share with you what the doctor told us to do just yesterday:
When he cries in the middle of the night, go in, NO TALKING, lay him back down, help him find his thumb/paci/comfort item, turn on his sleepy music (etc) and leave. Wait 10 minutes and do it over again. He will get bored by you not picking him up and go to sleep. After a few days it should get better.

Last night (our first night on the "No bottle in the middle of the night for little man" plan) had Aidan waking up only once the whole night and I only had to go in once. My little Nady Jr has been sleeping blissfully through the night for months now.

Whatever works for your family is awesome, I hope you find something. Until then *hugs*

 

I agree with PP about the miracles of motrin! Ours do not typically wake up in the middle of the night so when my ds started doing it a couple of weeks ago and sounded like he was in pain we gave him Motrin and he went peacefully back to sleep and woke up with two new top teeth (his bottom ones came in with no fanfare). After that night he went back to sleeping all the way through again. I think a pp asked about how you put them to bed because putting them down awake teaches them to self-soothe and put themselves back to sleep and it sounds like that is what yours are struggling with in the middle of the night. Since you do put them down awake they do know how to put themselves to sleep and at this point it sounds like it is just habit for him to wake up and want some attention rather than know that it is bedtime and he won't get any attention until morning!

 

you're right, i think there's an attention aspect to it. because if i do go in and soothe them back to sleep the instant i stand up to leave the room they snap awake and cry again. we keep telling them, "you don't have a magical illness that gets better only if i'm sitting down."