After trying everything in every book (No cry solutions, modified cry solutions, white noise, routines, etc etc etc) we finally gave in/up at 5 months and let them CIO when they were going down. It worked beautifully for exactly one week, and then suddenly we were back to hour long crying jags. After over a week more of that, I decided it was just insanely cruel and gave up. Fast forward to 7 months, where night time has just become unbearable. They were not only still insisting on eating every three hours, but at least one of them got up and refused to go back down at least one other time a night. I haven't slept more than 2 1/2 hours straight in over 7 months and I'm just done. So, we decided to try CIO again, this time also for the night wakings. Well, we are almost a week into it and things are HORRIBLE. Last night, they were up constantly (at least every two hours) and refused to go back down -- they each cried for an hour at least once and for 30 or 40 minutes at other times. I guess the problem may be that we aren't quite consistent enough about it -- we do sometimes pick them up and soothe them back to sleep after a while, and I am still feeding them at night, but I just can't let them cry for 5 or more hours a night! Do some babies just not respond to CIO? And what the heck am I supposed to do now? (and please don't just offer me hugs and say that this will pass, because keeping on the way we have been going just isn't an option). Kim
QUOTE I guess the problem may be that we aren't quite consistent enough about it -- we do sometimes pick them up and soothe them back to sleep after a while, and I am still feeding them at night, but I just can't let them cry for 5 or more hours a night! Do you feed them in the middle of the night every night as part of their feeding schedule.? If you do, they they may be confused at why they are being left to cry sometimes (until you sooth them) and other times you pick them up to feed them. My thought is until you decide to stop night feedings, I would not think that CIO is something you should be doing. Once you decide to stop night feedings, then you would have them CIO for the whole night instead of just certain times.
QUOTE guess the problem may be that we aren't quite consistent enough about it You HAVE to be consistent with CIO, or there is no point to doing it. That means no picking up and no feeding.
I think at this age they no longer need that nighttime feeding. They are in a habit and yes, consistency is the key here. I would try to drop that nighttime feeding and instead just soothe them when they wake. Once they get used to the fact that food is not something they "need" in the middle of the night, hopefully the rest will fall into place. I am so sorry you are struggling so with this. Even though you don't want hugs,I want to reach out and give you one anyway! It is flippin hard work and when you are at your wits end it's enough to make you scream. We struggle mightily with day time naps and routines, but our nighttimes are okay for the most part. Try re-reading HSHHC and see what he says about dropping nighttime feedings. That is what worked for us.
Okay, so ... a) how do I deal with all of the wake ups while I try to do something about the feedings? Before we started this, they were up every 45 minutes between 7 and 10 and then a few more (non feeding) times during the rest of the night. I have literally no part of my day that isn't dominated by caring for them. I usually don't even get to eat dinner in one shot, and end up finishing off a cold meal after putting a baby back to sleep. b ) how do I get them to drop feedings? We've tried soothing them instead of feeding in an attempt to push the feedings further apart, but they kept waking up at the same time anyway. (That plan was to push the feeding a bit later each night -- by the time we gave up, although the first feeding should theoretically have moved to 12, they were still getting up at 10 and staying up (no matter what we did) until they finally got fed at 12. And then they started a pattern of being up for about an hour AFTER that, too. They have each gone a night or two with only one feeding (not, of course, on the same night, so I didn't get any more sleep ), but then they go right back to the 3 hour pattern. I bf, so I can't water down feedings (and they are bad with the bottle, so that would just make nights harder), and we've also tried making feedings shorter and shorter, which only lead to intense shrieking. I feel like we've tried every suggestion in every book (and other than not doing all out cio all night, we have really tried each strategy -- with lots of frustrating 1 and 2 week stretches of strategies that weren't working). I am overwhelmed -- feeling like a failure and absolutely exhausted. I stopped even checking these boards for a while, because the topic headings celebrating babies sleeping through were enough to make me weep.
First off I had the SAME problem (waking up and would only feed to go back to sleep) I agree, CONSISTENCY IS SO IMPORTANT!! Also, Mia would cry up to 2 hours (not necessarily hysterically). Don't give up after an hour. She was night feeding and I just stopped cold turkey. She didn't need it. Her weight was fine. One other idea is can you separate them during the sleep training? We put Jacob in my room and Mia in their room. Jacob didn't need as much training, but still we thought it might be best so they don't wake each other. They stayed that way for a month (took us a week to sleep train) and now they are back in each other's room. They still wake up from time to time, but trust me, I know what you are going through and it is h*ll. It is nothing like that. So consistency and MAYBE separate them. Some people say not to, but maybe it is one of the things that might help. Melissa
I say you need to stop the night feedings cold turkey. Some ahve success with watering down and giving less but at this point if I were you, I would totally stop. (unless they were underwieght and ped was concerned). I would also keep them in the same room so you can just do it all at once and not have another issue later. Below are notes I took about CIO and night feedings when they were 5 months. We started Cry it Out this week ( 5 months 2 weeks) because we could not take the sleepless nights anymore. It was getting so bad. They go to bed at 7 and wake anywhere from 11pm-12am for a bottle and then each get up 2 more times throughout the night to eat full bottles. Around 5 months, we decided to try CIO. Before doing CIO, they would have their 7:00 bottle and then go to bed. Then they each would wake 2 times to eat during the night. W came to the realization that they did not need to be eating that much at night anymore. They had 4 6-8 oz bottles during the day and solids twice a day. We decided that we would give them one bottle each after their 7:00 bottle if they woke up crying and then if they cried anytime after that, I just let them cry. We did that for about 2 weeks. After the first night of not feeding them after their last late night bottle, during the day they began to drink 8 oz consistently rather than sometimes 5 oz. Then about 2 weeks later, we did a true CIO after their 7:00 bottle to eliminate all night feedings. Now they may cry a little during the night but I just leave them and they end up sleeping anywhere between 6-7. When they wake in the morning, they are happy and not crying of hunger. That proves to me that they were eating out of habit.
First of all, I'm sorry to hear you are having such a tough time....as people say, your babies didn't read the textbook of how they are "suppossed' behave. It sounds like you have a number of issues going on - feeding and sleeping. I would focus on the feeding first, then move to the sleeping. My kids are only 3 months old and they are our first, so please know we are still learning as well. QUOTE(NYCmom @ Apr 8 2007, 04:36 PM) [snapback]210578[/snapback] Okay, so ... a) how do I deal with all of the wake ups while I try to do something about the feedings? Before we started this, they were up every 45 minutes between 7 and 10 and then a few more (non feeding) times during the rest of the night. I have literally no part of my day that isn't dominated by caring for them. I usually don't even get to eat dinner in one shot, and end up finishing off a cold meal after putting a baby back to sleep. If you are speaking about 7-10pm, our children cluster feed during that time - they seem to be tanking up. It has been helping them cut down on night wakings. For this time period, I would suggest going with their feeding cues and not focusing on putting them to sleep. Occassionaly our kids will catnap during this time, but generally they just eat - rest - eat. b ) how do I get them to drop feedings? We've tried soothing them instead of feeding in an attempt to push the feedings further apart, but they kept waking up at the same time anyway. (That plan was to push the feeding a bit later each night -- by the time we gave up, although the first feeding should theoretically have moved to 12, they were still getting up at 10 and staying up (no matter what we did) until they finally got fed at 12. And then they started a pattern of being up for about an hour AFTER that, too. I would consider doing demand feeding for bit instead of setting artifical times. I know some people have had success with doing feeding training that way, it hasn't worked for our kids. They have each gone a night or two with only one feeding (not, of course, on the same night, so I didn't get any more sleep ), but then they go right back to the 3 hour pattern. I bf, so I can't water down feedings (and they are bad with the bottle, so that would just make nights harder), and we've also tried making feedings shorter and shorter, which only lead to intense shrieking. I would consider trying the bottle again (can you pump?) In this way, you can see how much they are taking. At 7months your kids sound be able to eat enough to sleep through the night. Also, they may be breast feeding for comfort. Another thing to try - we find our daughter has burping issues. She will often scream and act hungry (but won't latch) and we find out it's a trapped burp. Our son gets over tired and won't sleep without an ounce from a bottle. This is not true hunger. I feel like we've tried every suggestion in every book (and other than not doing all out cio all night, we have really tried each strategy -- with lots of frustrating 1 and 2 week stretches of strategies that weren't working). I am overwhelmed -- feeling like a failure and absolutely exhausted. I stopped even checking these boards for a while, because the topic headings celebrating babies sleeping through were enough to make me weep. We aren't officially doing sleep training, but it seems like if you focus on the feeding issues and get those under control - then you can go to the sleep training. Again, while your kids may not sleep through,at this age, they should be down to at least one feeding per overnight. Also, on the overnight feeds (I'm sure you know this) we don't speak to the kids, try not to turn on lights and only change diapers if they are poopy. My boy (who is a terrible napper during the day) goes down well during the overnight. Finally, can your husband help with this? I would consider dedicating a week to the feeding issue, working together - each person with a baby. The thing I find most frustrating with twins, is it's hard to be proactive, I often find myself being "reactive". If you are both focused on this, you can be more proactive (checking for true hunger and sleep cues). Again, I'm no expert, these are just my thoughts as we "learn on the job."
Like the others have said, you MUST be consistent about it. I started CIO when my girls were 9 months old (7 months adjusted) We stopped the night time feedings all together. We tried for a week or so doing the "go in and pat them on the back" method but it just didnt work. We could pat for 2 minutes or 15 but whenever we stopped, they were back up again. Finally we did straight CIO. We didnt pick them up, we didnt even go in the same room with them. It took a full month for them to make it through the nite completely without waking up but it did eventually work. Kaytlin would only cry for about 10-15 minutes but Alivea would go for an hour. She is a very strong willed and determined little girl Like others have mentioned, you are sending your babies a confused message. They arent sure when you are going to pick them so they keep crying b/c you have done so in the past. Once they learn that they arent going to get fed, picked up or any attention at all, they will learn to self soothe. I know it is SOOOOO hard listening to your babies crying for you but it is for the greater good. They will feel better in the morning for getting a full night of sleep and so will you. Your babies are old enough now that they dont need night time feedings. I was worried about that too so I offer them something more filling. About an hour before bed I make them rice cereal mixed with 12 ozs of baby food and juice. Then we take a bath, offer an 8 oz bottle of formula and it's time for bed. I still rock my girls to sleep for their naps but they decided a few weeks ago that they didnt want to be rocked before bed anymore so now we have "cuddle" time for 10 minutes after their bottle and we lay them down in their cribs. Sometimes they fuss a little but mostly they go right to sleep on their own. For their naps, they fall asleep while I am rocking them, I am just not ready to give that up yet Good luck to you and I hope it all works out!
When you check on them at night, are you stimulating them? We turned on as little light as possible, never spoke, and tried to be like ninjas basically. Our son would have relapses where he would not sleep well for a week or so, but it always got better within a week. I wouldn't a feed child that age in the middle of the night unless they were underweight. I'd make sure they are getting enough in the day and maybe offer a bottle of water if anything. We found it was usually better for my husband to go check on my son when we knew he didn't need to eat because I was nursing and I think he just smelled it on me and decided he was hungry.
I won’t offer a hug but how about a couple shots of whiskey and a long nap :blink: I am sorry you are having such a difficult time. My advice is free…… I would try the bottle again if only so you can get some rest! It would be also beneficial to see how much they are actually eating at this stage and if they are getting enough. I commend you for breast feeding them both for this long. You should really be proud of that! I have a 13 year old and 2 ½ month old twins. I have never CIO with any of my kids… here or there 5-10 min not much longer only because it's so hard to soothe them after so long.... after an hour they must be exhausted and you too! They sense your tension. I would talk to their doctor about their sleeping and the eating maybe he/she can shed some light since they know your babies better then us. I agree with having your DH check on them at night if possible so they don’t smell mama
I began CIO about a month ago because I was going through the same thing of being up 6-10 times a night between the two catching my sleep on the couch or recliner with a baby in my arms because I had passed out from exhaustion. Just from my experience with the process, consistency is key. Trust me you will have nights where you have a setback or two but, the ladies here have been very supportive when I have thought I have blown it due to the boys going through teething or gas episodes. I just make sure that their last bottle of the evening (around 7:45-8:00) has food in it and that it is pretty thick in consistency. Even though they have already eaten dinner. This way I know for sure that if they do wake up and fuss a little it is not due to hunger. I also listen to the intensity of the cry, if it is just fussing even for 20-30 minutes I do not go to them......if it is crying and it gets intense then I will soothe. I will have to say that after the first night where Noah cried 5-6 times for 5-15 minute periods and Jacob cried for one hour from 3-4 am it has not been bad since. Yes, they do wake and fuss here and there for a minute or so but, they always put themselves back down. The only time I have had to go to them since CIO has begun is for teething (top ones coming in ) and one night for gas. Other than that, I have to say I have been getting more sleep and actually been in my bedroom. I hope this helps a little.
HI, sorry it's been such a struggle. I won't repeat all the advice you've already gotten above. But from my Mother of Twins playgroup -- it seems very common for babies to "lose their sleep patterns" at around 8 months as they are going through some MAJOR developmental milestones -- like crawling standing, etc. So this blip may not be a long term issue that needs another CIO -- it may just be a "growth spurt" issue. All my friends seem to have had a similar disruption around the same age. I'm going through this now and it's a pain, but the boys have so many new skills, I just know it's partially caused their sleeplessness. Cheers, Teri D
QUOTE(NYCmom @ Apr 8 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]210469[/snapback] After trying everything in every book (No cry solutions, modified cry solutions, white noise, routines, etc etc etc) we finally gave in/up at 5 months and let them CIO when they were going down. It worked beautifully for exactly one week, and then suddenly we were back to hour long crying jags. After over a week more of that, I decided it was just insanely cruel and gave up. Fast forward to 7 months, where night time has just become unbearable. They were not only still insisting on eating every three hours, but at least one of them got up and refused to go back down at least one other time a night. I haven't slept more than 2 1/2 hours straight in over 7 months and I'm just done. So, we decided to try CIO again, this time also for the night wakings. Well, we are almost a week into it and things are HORRIBLE. Last night, they were up constantly (at least every two hours) and refused to go back down -- they each cried for an hour at least once and for 30 or 40 minutes at other times. I guess the problem may be that we aren't quite consistent enough about it -- we do sometimes pick them up and soothe them back to sleep after a while, and I am still feeding them at night, but I just can't let them cry for 5 or more hours a night! Do some babies just not respond to CIO? And what the heck am I supposed to do now? (and please don't just offer me hugs and say that this will pass, because keeping on the way we have been going just isn't an option). Kim