CIO Experts please help

My b/g twins are 11 months old. We cosleep because I would never get any sleep otherwise. On a good night DS will sleep a 6 hour stretch, sometimes longer. DD pretty consistently wakes up and nurses every 3-4 hours.

I have tried sleep training twice, once at 7 months and once at 10 months. I set hours when the milk bar was going to be closed then rocked them if I was awake enough, or just let them cry next to me (and pat-pat-pat) if I was too tired to get out of bed. Each time just as I felt we were sorta getting somewhere, they got sick or started teething and I was back to nursing all night long.

As their first birthday approaches I am contemplating CIO in their cribs (they won't sleep in their cribs BTW -- start crying almost immediately). I cannot do CIO in my bed because they climb around and can fall off. I do not want them in my bed when they are 18 months or 2 years old, so I guess the time to go to the crib is now. WWYD? Do I try to get them comfortable in their cribs first, before trying CIO? Do I do the "extinction" method, or should I check on them at least once (someone said that first check was most important to let them know I am still there?)? I cannot get my head wrapped around this and am so confused, not to mention conflicted. But I think it is time they slept in their cribs and time for me to stop waking up multiple times per night.

 

(I am by no means a CIO expert. I did CIO with mine about a month ago and it was a relatively painless process.)

I really recommend reading Ferber's sleep book. There is a chapter that goes through a process to gradually cut back on night feedings. That might give you an action plan to start with.

But, I think you realize that you've got several bad sleep habits to break before they'll be able to sttn. You can focus on one thing at a time, or go all out and tackle them at once. I think either will work so it's up to you which way you go. With A&A, they needed CIO to stop their one night feeding and to go down in their cribs awake. I decided to tackle both at once. My reasoning was they're going to be crying anyway... might as well break both habits at the same time.

The thing with CIO, is that you have to give them the chance to learn how to sleep in the way you want them to. So, if you want them to fall asleep and sleep in their cribs, then you have to let them practice doing so. And they're going to protest by crying. I did the Ferber method where I went in to check on them with increasing intervals inbetween. I waited 10, 15 and 20 minutes the first night. Then 15, 20, 30 the second, etc. I liked the checking because it reassured me they were ok (mad, but ok). The checks didn't calm them down at all, but they also didn't rile them up more either.

What is your tolerance/patience like? I think it's important to start with a plan you know you can follow through with. If you can handle extinction, pretty much everyone agrees it is the quickest route to sttn. But if you're nervous about that, you can start small with the Ferber checks. In his book, he says the process works even if you start with checking in after 1 minute of crying. It'll take longer to get to sttn, but if that's what you need to be able to follow through, it's what is going to work for you.

Good luck!

 

:wavey: This what I did (and I also did it at 11 months and was nursing FREQUENTLY at night). We did extinction CIO, it took 3 nights, no lie. But I DID go in and nurse them once at ~2am when they were NOT crying (so I waited until they were calm/asleep) for 2 reasons:
1. I was SOOOO full by then it was that or pump
2. I wanted to make sure they were okay

I did that for the 3 nights it took and then stopped going in at all. I honestly believe that since mine were waking so frequently (every 1-3 hrs) they NEEDED better sleep and so did I. The time they spent crying for those 3 nights was way less than the numerous times they awoke crying every night for me to nurse them. And when I factor in all the times I would let them cry to see if they would settle only to have me give in and nurse them.....CIO was less confusing for them than setting intervals or something.
I picked 6:30pm-6:30am as the times I would not go in if they were crying. It was VERY hard, you have to be ready as they can cry for a long time. Dh and I were VERY anti-CIO up until that point, then after trying everything else we decided if we wanted them to STTN anytime soon this was it. We set a limit of 5 nights, if they were not STTN by then, then so be it, we will get up with them....luckily it worked.

Please PM if you want support

 

I am not an expert either. I did it at 11 months; at that point they were still waking 2x/night to feed. We generally put them down awake, but ALMOST asleep; we'd give them their final bottle (they weaned themselves at 7 months), then hold them for a few minutes so they got calm and organized (ok sometimes it was more than a few), then put them in their beds and patted their tushes until they were practically out.

i decided that i was going to do extinction; i knew from earlier experience that if i went in, it didn't calm them at all. I was able to put them in separate rooms although i know lots of people don't. I had been extremely anti-CIO, but it got to the point where icouldn't function and i knew taht they needed to learn to get themselves to sleep and back to sleep.

I decided to give it five days; my DH was out of the country at the time. The first night ilistened to them cry for half an hour and then said "I've decided that i'm not going in there, i know they are ok, they are safe, i don't need ot torture myself and listen to this." I had to put on headphones to drown it out (but mostly because i was so attuned to their sounds).

W/in a week they were sleeping a solid ten hours. I had hoped for 12, and for the first week or so i let them cry in the mornings, but then i figured that it did't make sense to ME to have them cry for 60 or 90 minutes just so we could 'reach' the 12 hour mark. They generally sleep 10 hours, wake, have a bottle and go back to sleep for another 2 or so hours. After about four or five weeks of that one of them started doing 11 or 12 hour stints (ok, and one is now waking at 8 hours, but they're teething like monsters)

I will tell you that it has changed my life; i was SO sleep deprived i could not function and most of all i really, really wanted them to learn to go to sleep; i've heard too many horror stories of 2, 3 and 4 year olds sleeping w/their parents.

as pp said, you have a few habits to break and it really depends on your tolerance. You might want to consider doing somethng more gradual since they have been with you for so long; sleeping with your warmth and scent. But that's a personal call. I will say taht i didn't believe it would work for us - we had reflux issues so i had to hold them upright for 30 minutes for many months and i thought it would be impossible. It wasn't.

I will say taht it was the MOST difficult thing i've ever done - even more difficult than getting up in the middle of the night. But it was also great; they now can put themselves to sleep and back to sleep (they're usually more awake when they go down for naps since i'm alone w/them during the day and there is no one else to rock them or soothe them. But now they wake smiling (they usually did anyway, but...)

Whatever you choose, good luck!

 

Thanks so much ladies! Jessie, I'm going to get the Ferber book. I think that will be good, I will feel like I have more of a plan and it will be easier to stick with it that way. I'm so tempted to try the extinction method but I think I need them to feel more comfortable in their cribs first, otherwise it seems like too much all at once?

Kristi -- I was hoping you would chime in Were your two sleeping in their cribs but waking every 1-3 hours? How did you get any sleep at all -- or I guess you are saying you weren't getting any. I am afraid my DD is going to have a tough time adjusting to the crib, she seems to be very attached to me and wakes up a lot more if I'm not in the bed with her. I'm going to miss having her sweet face in bed next to me too. I think I'm really dreading the transition but I know it will be better for me and DH, if not the babies too.

Jordari -- thanks for sharing your story -- good to know that it worked for you even when you really didn't think it would. I think I will hold the extinction method out as the last resort, and try some more gradual stuff first like you said. I know each time I do some sleep training the first night is really hard and then it gets better the next night already -- so I think extinction would be easier on me (hopefully less crying) after they've had some other practice first.

Also thank you both for mentioning the 5 day limit -- I hadn't thought of putting a time limit on it. "Just 5 days" makes me feel much better about trying it.

 

Hi there!
I have a link that might help you even more. Becky posted this earlier in another thread...


QUOTE(becky5 @ Apr 7 2008, 07:40 PM) [snapback]710243[/snapback]
My experience, along with a lot of others is in this link....
[Wiki]Cry_It_Out_Sleep_Training_(CIO)[/Wiki]

 

QUOTE(MichelleL @ Apr 8 2008, 04:49 PM) [snapback]712569[/snapback]
Hi there!
I have a link that might help you even more. Becky posted this earlier in another thread...


Thank you SO much! That was very helpful. Lord knows I don't have a lot of time for reading so it's nice to have the highlights

 

QUOTE(poppan @ Apr 8 2008, 12:31 PM) [snapback]711671[/snapback]
Kristi -- I was hoping you would chime in Were your two sleeping in their cribs but waking every 1-3 hours? How did you get any sleep at all -- or I guess you are saying you weren't getting any. I am afraid my DD is going to have a tough time adjusting to the crib, she seems to be very attached to me and wakes up a lot more if I'm not in the bed with her. I'm going to miss having her sweet face in bed next to me too. I think I'm really dreading the transition but I know it will be better for me and DH, if not the babies too.



Also thank you both for mentioning the 5 day limit -- I hadn't thought of putting a time limit on it. "Just 5 days" makes me feel much better about trying it.


Mine were sleeping in their cribs at that point, if you call it that :lol: Ds in perticular would end up co-sleeping alot of the night, once I got so sick of getting up. Dd slept better in her crib. And no, I was not really getting any sleep, I have no idea how I survived on so little sleep those first 11 months, honestly, I don't think it was healthy!!!!
I am not sure how you can get them "used" to the cribs with some other technique. I guess you could put them in their cribs starting tomorrow, and just get up every time they cry until Friday and then on Friday night start the CIO. But I am not sure that will serve much of a purpose??


Dh and I will still say "should we grab them and bring them into to bed with us :wub: ??!!", but then we remember how we have can hold them as much as we want when they are awake and such. But yeah, we do miss the co-sleeping......sometimes, lol And we do bring them into bed with us on the weekends when they wake up.

My biggest advice would to wait until you are READY, that means you know you will follow thru, no questions asked. If you aren't sure then just wait and try other methods, cause giving in after 30min or 1hr of crying is just hard on all involved.

Goodluck!!!!

 

Just an update. So I ended up tackling the night weaning first and still have to deal with transitioning to their cribs at some point. The night weaning is going well. I declared the milk bar closed from bedtime till 5/6am and I lay there with them (since I am still cosleeping) and let them cry -- applying some of the Ferber reassurance principles, sort of. The first night they cried off and on until 2am then finally both fell asleep for a longer stretch. The second night they didn't cry at all although both woke up around 1am. DS put himself back to sleep within a half hour and DD played for 1.5 hours then fell asleep. The third night they again woke around 1am and whined for a while before they were able to fall back asleep.

They seem very awake when they wake at 1am. Did this happen to you too, does it go away? They aren't crying just whining a bit so it wasn't hard, but just wondering if they will start to truly sleep *through* the night.

Tonight will be night #4. So far this is going much better than my previous attempts at sleep training. Thanks again for the tips.

 

Just try to remind yourself that, like you, your children don't feel their best with these broken nights. At first, they will protest the change in the habits they have become used to, but as they get better sleep each night, they will actually begin to want more sleep!

Remember that helping your babies develop good sleep habits is something you can give them which will benefit their health, their moods, and their brain development. And when the whole family is getting enough sleep, family life will get even more enjoyable!!

Good luck!

 

Once mine were sleeping thru they never wake or if they do they don't make any noise. My guess is that maybe with the co-sleeping (and I am not knocking it all!!!) it is more stimulating when they wake at 1am and have someone there....I don't know if I described that well, lol. But I think that maybe when you move them to their cribs that that will go away.

I am so glad to hear it is going so well :banana:

 

do they nap in their cribs? that could be start to move them there....just my 2 cents, cuz i am NOT a CIO expert, as much as i would like to be

glad it's going well for you

sandra

 

Mine still are not STTN, but I was cosleeping, I started to transition them to their cribs during the day for their naps. It seemed to make nights a bit easier. We still have nights where they end up in my bed, but that is usually because I am tired and lazy and just want them to get to sleep again!

Wish you lots of luck and hopefully soon they will STTN for you :hug99:

 

Chris -- how did you get them to nap in their cribs? I tried this for a whole week -- put them in their cribs and let them cry for 20 minutes, if still crying then I took them out and let them fall asleep wherever later. It worked for DS but not for DD. So I ended up putting them back in their swings for naps and that is where I am now.

Sandra -- no not napping in cribs, still in swings See above, I tried to transition them to their cribs but it didn't quite work the way I did it, any other ideas?

Kristi -- we are making progress -- last night they didn't do the wake up and play thing until 3:30am so at least the time is moving in the right direction