Both babies (8 months) still waking at night...

My older DD slept through the night by now, so I somehow keep hoping that someday I'll get a full night of sleep... but both babies still wake up to feed. Dh sleeps with DD in the nursery, and she wakes usually once between 3-5am for a bottle. Sometimes she wakes earlier (midnight-1am) and then again around 5am. I sleep in our bedroom with DS, and he wakes at least once, usually twice (once around 1am and again around 5am). He has almost a full bottle at the early feed, and around 4oz at the second feed. Both babies go to bed around 6pm. I could handle one waking, but two seems a bit much at 8 months, and he almost always has trouble falling back asleep after the 5am-ish feed (often involving a poopy diaper). We would really like to get them back in the same room (we separated then *and us* at about 4 months because DS was waking 10-12 times due to undiagnosed silent reflux). But I keep thinking that we should wait until they are both sleeping better before putting them in the same room - it's easier for us to respond to them if we are in the room with them, and they don't wake each other up. But maybe we should just put them in the same room and see what happens? At what point would you *decide* that an older baby doesn't need a bottle at night? I know Weissbluth says that some babies could need a feed up to 9 months - but why did we have to get two like that!?!

 

I am going through the same thing. I am aboutto throw in the towel. I had them down to 3 bottles of formula a day , and they go to bed at 7pm, and were sleeping through till 6am (withthe occasional waking for thier paci's), this lasted about 3 weeks. The same time they learned thatthey can sit unassisted and pullingto standing, they are back to waking 3-4 times a night. The only way i can getthem to stop screaming is to feed them . DS can usually CIO and put himself back to sleep in about 30mins, but DD keeps him awake and she doesnt just whine she screams, and CIO doesnt work , even somtimes feeding her doesnt work. Im so exahusted (here it is 3:30am and they just stopped screaming for the second time of the night) My DH doenst help at all he claims to "not hear them" . Iv yet to have a full nights rest since they have been born. If you find a solution, please let me know,a nd ill do the same for you.

 

Both of mine still wake up to eat 1-2x/night. For the moment, I think they do need it, but if it keeps going too long and I get the sense that it's just a habit I'll do some form of CIO. I know what you mean, though - it's tough trying to figure out where to draw that line between hunger and habit! I guess all we can do is follow our instincts...

Good luck, hope you get some sleep soon! :hug99:

 

Mine are finally down to just one feeding at night, but at least one of them wakes a few more times for a paci. Everytime I try CIO I chicken out and go in there and give them a paci .

 

Yep, us too. We are usually up twice to nurse in a 12 hour span, sometimes three times. Usually they go right back to sleep, so I don't worry too much about it. If they start to stay awake, then we'll have to do CIO, I'm thinking; but I'm going to play it by ear.

My Mom said Kindergarten did wonders for my sleep and my MIL says that my DH didn't sleep the best either, so I guess we are just getting paybacks!

Erica.

 

My pedi told us that once they are past 6 months, they do not need to feed at night. If they are waking its mostly likely habit. I know some parents aren't comfortable with it, but I would CIO. It just seems like they are way too old to still need middle of the night feedings. And like my pedi said, hunger does not wake a baby up. The baby wakes up on it's own for other reasons. Even as adults, we don't wake up because we are hungry. We may wake up and realize we are hungry, but it won't wake you out of a sound sleep. More than likely they are in a habit, or things like teething are causing them to wake up. I know they say when a child learns something new (ie sitting up, crawling, pulling up, etc) sometimes it will disrupt their sleep.

Mine have been sleeping through since 3.5 months. They rarely wake up in the middle of the night, but the few times they did, they never cried more than 5 minutes before going back to sleep.

Good luck!

 

Hi there. Can you tell me how much and how often the babies are eating during the day? I really feel that so long as a baby is getting a sufficient amount of balanced nutrition during daylight hours and is on a good napping/bedtime routine he/she will start sleeping through the night without eating when they're biologically ready, by 9 months for sure. If your babies aren't eating a lot during the day they may need the night-time nutrition, so you may have to adjust your daytime schedule. But if they're eating well all day long they could just be in the habit of eating at night. Even adults can train themselves to need food during the night - if you woke to eat at midnight every night for a week I bet your body would come to expect it. So if you're confident they're getting all they need during the day, you may have to give them some encouragement to sleep through once they hit 9 months.

I know many moms are really happy when they get their babies on a 4-hour schedule during the day but that has never worked for my boys. They're frequent eaters. But I don't mind because we haven't had a night feeding in months (last one was about 3 months for Evan and 3.5 months for James). Don't get me wrong, we did have sleep problems from 5 to 9 months with James, but we were able to solve the issue through "sleep training" in December. It was hard but I can see it was worth it, now that I've been re-introduced to my well-rested son. I had to totally re-program myself to get through the experience. I used to think crying meant that my baby needed me - even if it was up to 7 times a night for as much as 2-3 hours at a time. But gradually I came to the conclusion that I couldn't function on so little sleep and James was really being affected by never getting into a good, deep sleep. Now that he's sleeping 11-12 hours a night he's crawling, cruising, babbling, walking with his "sit and stand", learning all sorts of new tricks. We were both in a fog for months and teaching him to sleep (by letting him learn to self soothe) was the best thing I could have done for both of us.

 

Thanks everyone. Both babies have a bottle every 3 hours or so during the day. We are just going to two naps, so that is affecting their eating schedule somewhat. Kate will not have any solids whatsoever yet (maybe a teaspoon of apple, but that's it). Max has solids twice a day - fruits and veggies. I have HSHHC, and even Weissbluth, who I consider to be pretty hard-line CIO, says that some babies can need a night feed until around 9 months - so I wouldn't try and eliminate the last feed until past nine months. I guess I am just frustrated that I have two babies who are not great sleepers - what are the odds of that?
Angelmommy: Is there a reason you want them to get so little formula? Everything I have read says that BM or formula shoudl be the primary source of nutrition for the first year - which means 4-5 bottles a day. Maybe they are waking because they are really hungry and if they had more milk during the day they would sleep better?

 

I'm right there with you (as this 4am post will attest!) My girls are 9.5 months, but 8 months adjusted.

Until about five weeks ago they were waking THREE times to feed at night, almost exactly on the three hour mark. We transitioned them to two feeds in about 8 days by really trying to 'stretch' them out at night; instead of picking them up and feeding immediately, we'd pat them down.. It was rough for that time since they woke more frequently, but they have been pretty consistent at 2x per night since then. Occasionally they'll even go only 1x.

I, too, am hoping that they are those Weissbluth defined babies which need to eat til they are 9 months, and once they are nine months adjusted they will STTN. I am INCREDIBLY torn about CIO; initially i was completely opposed to it, but going on a year w/out a full nights' sleep (bad pregnancy), i am really hitting the wall.

I've even resorted to, gulp, driving them around to get in a good afternoon nap. I feel like i'm creating horrible habits, but - who knows, i know my parents did it for us sometimes and we are pretty fine. For a while I had them CIO for naps; they mostly went down in 15 minutes or less, but - a few episodes that lasted a long time and ended in total reflux has changed that for me.

And of course now that they are pulling up on everything, starting to 'free stand', babbling away and just dying to walk, I think it's one of those developmental times when even weissbluth says their sleep habits are likely to change.

My girls have always been snackers, and were demand nursed for months. I recently read 12 Hours by 12 Weeks, and her big thing is getting them on a four hour schedule, so they are used to eating a full bottle and not snacking. Great concept but - my girls have rarely taken a full 8 ounces once we went to formula when the weaned themselves. My pedi said that BF'd babies rarely do, since they're used to feeling lighter (what she comically refers to as 'eating shrimp cocktail, instead of pancakes")......HOWEVER, I have noticed that when i can actually get them to go four hours, they will take an entire bottle. Of course, they'll usually reflux half of it (sigh), and it hasn't effected their night-time eating. But then 0- perhaps it IS just habit.

I fluctuate on a daily basis about what to do. I have heard so many wonderful stories about CIO'd babies, but- I also know that I don't have the stomach right now for full-on CIO, and given our upcoming travel schedule with major time changes it seems the wrong time to do it. i do worry that I am being a bad parent by not teaching my babies to self-soothe and sleep, but- I'm doing the best I can here.

I do know that i cannot even IMAGINE what a full nights' sleep would feel like - heck, i can hardly imagine six hours consecutive sleep!

As for whoever's husband 'doesn't hear them" -heck, i say WAKE HIM UP. That is just BUNK that you bear all the brunt of it! (sorry, not a criticism, more a memory of when I used to coddle my DH like that. We've figured out a schedule that more or less works for us (I take them til 4 am unless they both wake simultaneously), and he takes them from 4-8 am so i can ostensibly get some sleep.

Good luck to all of us, here's to a SLEEP!

 

QUOTE(Mimsy @ Jan 7 2008, 05:07 AM) [snapback]560551[/snapback]
Thanks everyone. Both babies have a bottle every 3 hours or so during the day. We are just going to two naps, so that is affecting their eating schedule somewhat. Kate will not have any solids whatsoever yet (maybe a teaspoon of apple, but that's it). Max has solids twice a day - fruits and veggies. I have HSHHC, and even Weissbluth, who I consider to be pretty hard-line CIO, says that some babies can need a night feed until around 9 months - so I wouldn't try and eliminate the last feed until past nine months. I guess I am just frustrated that I have two babies who are not great sleepers - what are the odds of that?
Angelmommy: Is there a reason you want them to get so little formula? Everything I have read says that BM or formula shoudl be the primary source of nutrition for the first year - which means 4-5 bottles a day. Maybe they are waking because they are really hungry and if they had more milk during the day they would sleep better?



Not from angelmommy, but in terms of formula, I too have heard most/all nutrition comes from formula or bm, solids are just to learn "table manners" and eating habits according to my pd, but since about 5 1/2 months, I've been doing only three 6 oz. bottles per day. Now, we bump one or two of those up to 7 oz sometimes. I measured and to make their mixed grain cereal, I use 3 oz. formula per 3 tbs. dry cereal. They get this 2X/day. So there's another 6 oz. Our schedule is bottle @ 7, solids at 9, bottle at 1, solids at 4:30, bottle for bed at 6:30. Off to dreamland, where they typically stay until about 5:00. Sometimes earlier, but they just get a paci at that time.

BTW, last nite was the first nite I've slept through! Although, unintentional....I "snoozed" the baby monitor by turning it down and I slept on. All while not really even waking up. DH did get up one time to check on them, so I guess I don't feel all that bad about putting them on snooze!

 

QUOTE
Kate will not have any solids whatsoever yet (maybe a teaspoon of apple, but that's it).


Mimsy - this is a little OT, but have you ever come across this article? I read it before starting solids and thought it was some wacky fringe thing. Then I started solids, and had endless frustration because my babies absolutely HATED the spoon. After trying everything, I tried letting them self-feed off of big pieces of real food - and they loved it! Only now are they starting to make peace with spoon-feeding (especially if it's something yummy like mushed up whatever we're having for dinner). Totally bass-ackwards, but that's how it worked. I wonder if Kate would take better to solids self-feeding?

QUOTE
I recently read 12 Hours by 12 Weeks, and her big thing is getting them on a four hour schedule, so they are used to eating a full bottle and not snacking. Great concept but - my girls have rarely taken a full 8 ounces once we went to formula when the weaned themselves. My pedi said that BF'd babies rarely do, since they're used to feeling lighter (what she comically refers to as 'eating shrimp cocktail, instead of pancakes")......HOWEVER, I have noticed that when i can actually get them to go four hours, they will take an entire bottle. Of course, they'll usually reflux half of it (sigh), and it hasn't effected their night-time eating.


I really don't buy into all those books that tell you to feed your babies less/less often/on a strict schedule in order to make them sleep at night. Nobody has ever been able to explain to me exactly what the connection is supposed to be. (So if somebody can, I'd love to hear it!) HSHHC draws no connection - sleep comes from the brain, not from the stomach. If babies only want to eat every 4 hrs, more power to them, but pushing them to have uncomfortably huge and infrequent meals when they'd be happier just eating when they're hungry, not overeating when they're starving - in hopes of somehow influencing their night sleep - seems a bit unkind.

Anyway, back to Mimsy - any ideas on what you'll do when you hit 9 mo? I'm starting to think about sleep training sometime soon, and am trying to come up with gentle, gradual ways of doing it, since I can't stomach full-blown all-night cold-turkey CIO either.

 

QUOTE
Anyway, back to Mimsy - any ideas on what you'll do when you hit 9 mo? I'm starting to think about sleep training sometime soon, and am trying to come up with gentle, gradual ways of doing it, since I can't stomach full-blown all-night cold-turkey CIO either.


No idea... I am really reluctant to CIO - I am not sure that it would work for our babies (or maybe I just want to think that). I didn't do it with my DD and I really don't want to with the twins. I am also not sure about doing it when they are in the same room - they aren't used to room-sharing anymore, so I am pretty sure they would wake each other. So, I guess we are going to take a wait-and-see approach, and hope that they wll settle the issue themselves...

Thanks for the article link - it was really interesting. Strengely, the link was Dutch, and I live in the Netherlands. I think that the theory is very interesting, and I am going to try it. I know that Kate does have a strong gag-reflex still, but I give her rusks and I have never seen her choke on a piece of those. I guess I'll try a pear or something and see how she does. Although I have a ton of interesting organic, mixed purees, imported from England, and they are going to have to eat those!

 

Hello Ladies,
what is CIO?

 

CIO = cry it out

 

Thanks Nancy