big day care trouble

Two weeks ago Friday I noticed Iris had a bunch of scratches below her waist and above her butt. They were under her diaper and pants so it's impossible she did this to herself or another child at day care did it to her. Tuesday there were fresh scratches. DH asked day care staff when he took what's going on and they said they had no idea, hadn't seen them themselves. They looked on the spot and acted surprised. Wednesday day care was closed due to a strike. Thursday I noticed after her bath on her thighs at 4-5 different places her skin was red. The distance and appearance of these red marks were as if someone had forcefully held her with their thumb and forefinger. Again not something she could do to herself or another child could do to her because the distance would be much smaller.
I kept them home Friday and went to see the psychologist at day care (she's the person that mediates between patients and staff). Although I've had a number of complaints about things at day care like the sleep routine, feeding etc I've let them all slide. This I can't let go of though. I told her what happened and said that I'm trying to find a middle way to deal with this. One extreme is to do nothing, the other is to legally pursue it. I said this so she can take me seriously. She suggested we speak to the classroom teachers and hear their side and I said that I don't care what their side is and there is no way this is ok. They denied knowing about the scratches once so theres no reason why they wouldn't again and there is no excuse in the world why my child would have pressure marks on her thighs. I said that I will not have my children back in that class with the same teachers and requested they are switched to another class. She said she would have to speak to the board of directors about this and a little after I left she called me and asked me to be there Monday to speak to the president of the board myself.
My feeling is that maybe these things happened while they were changing her or feeding her. They have this stupid way of feeling the children like they're infants. They'll hold them in their lap, tilt their heads back and shovel in the food.Once when I went to pick her up I saw she was crying and squirming and all red in the face trying to break away and they were holding on and feeding her anyway. I told them never ever to do that again and that if she does not want to be fed I would rather she go hungry. Since, I saw her standing in front of the teacher and being fed and assumed this is what was happening. Maybe she is fighting them when she is being changed as well and that would explain what happened. Regardless of the how and why though it's not ok!
I know I'm not overreacting here and I know they are scared about what I might do next (I someone with a stronge voice in this corner of the world) so I'm hoping they'll change them to a different class.
Even if they change them though I'm not 100% sure that's ok. The psychologist told me Iris is not happy does not smile and laugh there, does not play with other children. I'm so angry she didn't tell me this before and am worried it's just not the right place for her. Is this her response to whatever has been going on? She's a very active happy child when at home although increasingly difficult around mealtimes (now it all makes sense). Also, the other class is adjoined to the one they are in so the new teachers would know what went on and might be biased against them. There is a doorway children can go from one class to the other so they would still have contact with the old teachers but they would not feed or change them. Do you think I should try to have them stay there or leave altogether?
If this doesn't work out though I have no idea what I'm going to do with my girls. My new baby is arriving in 5 weeks. I was counting on the girls being in daycare. not sure how i'll manage if they all need to be home. I've been researching day cares for next year but don't think I have any alternative for this year since all the ones I saw would only take them after they are 2 yo. very few day care centers take children less than 2 years old and they wouldn't have any openings at this time of year.
Please tell me I'm not overreacting! I haven't been sleeping worrying about things.
I'm way to pregnant to have to deal wtih this.

 

:hug99: I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I don't think that I knew you were pregnant, Congratulations!

I would go to the meeting on Monday and see what happens. In the meantime, have everything that you have told us written down so you have it prepared for the meeting. Maybe check around to see whether there are other options for you for daycare.

It seems odd to me the way that they feed them. Once my kids were able to sit up and eat, they sat in a little table that had seats built into it. They used that until they were too big and then they sat at the regular small table in the children's seats. Do they not have tables to sit the kids down for a meal? (It was a way to teach them to sit through the meal, clean themselves up after, etc)

I hope that you are able to resolve this. :hug99:

 

Thanks for your post Maureen. I know the way they feed them is totally age inappropriate but I guess it's quicker for them to do. I didn't like it when we started but there's no working around it. next year they would transition them to chairs and teach them how to eat (after 2 yo). So as it is now meal times are totally different in day care and at home!

 

I'd be very concerned. The way you described them feeding her is totally unacceptable. Her having problems with mealtime is another red flag. If they are restraining her to feed her I can only imagine what diaper changing is like.
I'd definately move her to a different class, maybe to a different center if that's a choice for you. I would want to met with the teachers, owner/manager & the pyschologist. I'm concerned the teacher may be harming other children in the class also.

 

Wow. I'm stunned. What are the other daycare options in your area? Since you expecting another child, might a nanny be more cost effective? Before you go into the meeting on Monday, I agree with Maureen, have everything written down, but also think about what kind of resolution you would be happy with. It sounds like simply moving them to another class is not something you are 100% happy with. Have these things in mind, but let THEM give you some options first.

I will preface this next part by saying that I have only limited experience with daycare. My girls were in the center at my job from 4-6 1/2 months and the only reason we left was because it was too expensive given the amount of time we used it. Now the girls go to my neighbor's house. But our center had 'family style' room so there were infants to 2 1/2 year olds in a 'room' (actually it was multiple rooms- kind of like little apartments with their own play areas, kitchen, etc). The bigger babies (over 6 months) had little highchairs, and then the bigger kids sat at little tables to eat. All kids were encouraged to eat, but never forced. No one EVER shoveled food into them. We used to drop the girls off at lunch time and it was quite a sight with all those toddlers covered in food! But it was a happy, relaxed atmosphere.

I don't know why your center has this policy for feeding kids, but it doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard of. And I can understand why you'd be upset (aside from the marks on your baby). GL on Monday. This must be awful waiting the whole weekend for this meeting. I hope the weekend is relaxed and fun and goes quickly so you can get this issue resolved. -Leighann

 

I'm so sorry you are having this awful stress right now!!
I would take her out. I try to listen to my women's intuition. Can you get a private caregiver?
I hope you can get it figured out soon!

 

I don't hink you're overreacting. Did you take any pictures? If not, take some now if there are any visable signs left. THe marks, the lying, the feeding method, IRis's sadness, fighting mealtimes at home - all reasons to take them out. I don't have any advice of what to do for their care...but I would not keep sending my kids there. I think the center knows this is going on, so I wouldn't trust any other teacher there either - IMO. I'm sorry you have to deal with this now. Have you looked in to an in hm provider with three? :hug99:

 

Thanks for your posts ladies. I haven't talked to anyone else about this except dh and my mother so it's great to hear your thoughts on it.
The more I think about it the worse I feel. My poor baby :cray:
Yes it does seem that regardless if they change her class or not it probably won't be ok. Although other teaachers might be gentler their way of feeding for this age will be the same and she'll be right next oor to where she was and I'm sure that will continue to affect her in some way.
I'm going to look at one day care I saw recently and see how they handle children this age and if that doesn't work I guess they will have to stay home with me. Really my choises of day care are very limited till they are 2 yo.
Getting someone to help out is defintely a good idea but I'm worried that will take some time to find someone good.
Just when I thought I could relax till the new baby arrived

 

I had a similar situation (though not with any physical altercations) with a daycare my children were in. I called and got them into another center immediately. Well they weren't able to start the new center until 3 weeks later so I took 3 weeks off of work and kept them home until then.

The new center is way more expensive, but WAAAY more attentive as well and I wouldn't have it any other way, unless of course I could be home with them myself.


If you feel that strongly about it (and I would to in your situation) then take them out. It's not a good environment for them to be in and it's affecting their total behavior(her being difficult at mealtimes) My thought at the time was that I had to do what was best for the kids and the rest I'd figure out later......

GL

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this! How horrible!

I'd have them out as soon as possible- actually, sooner!

I know you said you didn't want to deal with them home when you have the new baby, but worse things could happen. If your ticker is correct, it would be less than 6 months before they turn 2. I'd stay home with them and the new baby as long as I could, and then get them into a better center at age 2. I know it will be a burden on you, buy I would try hard to stay home with them if you can't find a better center right away. When the baby is born you could try to find someone to come in and help...

Again, this has got to be such a hard situation for you- hang in there!

 

I would get them out of there!!! She's NOT happy and smiling and doesn't play? Not good!!

I like the idea of a Nanny in your home or finding another provider. I know it's difficult!! :hug99: I hope you work it out!!

 

I ditto getting a nanny until they are 2y/o and you have mroe daycare options. Do you have agencies there that can help find nannies for you? 5 weeks should give you enough time if you tell them they need to find someone ASAP.

I would never be able to send my two somewhere where I was not 100% comfortable with thier care, just not worth it.

 

Thanks ladies for all your support and validating my feelings that this is not ok.
I've had a terrible weekend, have come down with a cold and fever as well, feel like I have failed my children and can't get over not seeing the signs earlier.
I don't know if I'll be well enough to go to this meeting tommorrow though but I guess it doesn't matter as much now that I've decided to keep them home with me till I can find a nanny or a suitable day care. I wan't to have the meeting regardless in case it makes a difference for anyone elses children though.
Thanks again ladies.

 

agree with others..the only other thing i might suggest is to try and "drop by unannounced" on Monday so you can see first hand other things that might be going on. But regardless, it's important to get them out of there.

Also, while it may be tough to find a good nanny, since you will be home (i presume) with the new baby...you can determine pretty quickly if a person is working out.

Also, when we were looking for a nanny, we had our two candidates each work a week with us so we could see what worked. Most folks will do that.

Good luck and sorry for the stress!

 

Axpan, this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO not ok. I would not let my girls in there another day! The way they feed them is completely inappropriate. There ARE other ways to feed them. It sounds like they are force feeding these kids and that is HORRIBLE. You never force a kid to eat like that. They could have some sort of highchairs or other restraining type chair if they need to contain them for meal times. I was so disgusted in reading your post on the way they feed them. It's barbaric (sp?) IMO. Also, I know that I lose my mind sometimes when I'm changing my girls and they are fighting me. I have definately held them down or had to squeeze a little to make them stop but I'm their mother and I never go too far. Imagine, they are dealing with many kids having to change diapers. They must get very frustrated and perhaps lose it at times. But it's not ok, because they are not the parents of these kids. I would pull them out and either find a different facility or hire someone to come to your home to help you take care of your kids in your own home where you can see what's going on at all times and have things run according to how YOU want them done and think is best for your kids. I'm so sad for you and for them. They must be so miserable to go there. I would go to that meeting if for anything to let them know that you are very unhappy with the way they run things, that you would recommend that other parents DO NOT send their kids there and that they find some different ways to handle the way do things before someone comes along and seriously sues their a$$ and shuts down their business for good.

I hope you are able to get this resolved. Please keep us posted on all things. I'm sure this is the very last thing you need to be dealing with, with only 5 weeks until the new baby comes. I'm so sorry for you all.

BTW, I don't know if you heard but on the news recently here in the states, they had a story about a mom who put a recording device in her kindergartener's backpack because she suspected something was going on. Sure enough, she heard the teacher berating these poor little kids. She was yelling at them and screaming for them to hurry up and saying that they were all so stupid. Can you imagine??!!?? Just aweful. But this mother was able to get the evidence she needed and the teacher was removed from the classroom.

 

Just wanted to send hugs and wish you good luck with whatever you decide.

 

I would be extremely concerned and looking for a new daycare. They shouldn't be feeding them in a way that is most convenient and quickest for them, it should be for the developmental benefit of the children. That is a huge red flag, among many other things you mentioned.

 

Sorry to hear you are going through this. That feeding method is totally wrong and disturbing.

FWIW- DS scratches his waistline. and top of butt with his nails. I keep them short BUT the scratches are under his pants and diaper... he reaches down and I see him, so it is possible.. BUT since you have other issues I would take them out for sure.
Just wanted to say he does this and unless you saw, him, you'd wonder... we have to moisturize the area.

Good luck to you.

 

:hug99: So sorry you and your babies are going through this. I hope everything works out in your favor. That behavior is unacceptable no matter the circumstances.

Damiane'

 

I just wanted to offer some support too. You are NOT wrong. What you're describing sounds very wrong to me. All of my children have been in daycare and have been extremely happy there.

In the infant room - up until 14 months, they are fed a bottle being held. When they can sit and eat solids, they are spoon fed while sitting in the table with the chairs built in. They feed themselves as soon as they're able. When they move to the next room at around 14 months, they all sit at a table with their own chairs - the chairs have higher sides so it's hard for them to get out,fall out - they feed themselves.

As for changing - my girls hate to be changed but you can always distract them - at no time should anyone have to hold them down. I don't care how long it takes.

We had a nanny for the first 17 months. It worked out well for the most part. There are pros and cons to both a nanny and daycare. The most important thing is that your kids are happy and safe.

I hope you did make it to the meeting today - if for nothing else than to tell those people off. Best of luck finding the right care for your kids and congrats on your new baby.

 

Oh my goodness -- that sounds very scary! My girls were in daycare from 4 months until almost 2 years and they loved it -- they would run up to the teachers in the morning and give them hugs -- how do your girls react to the teachers? That would be a good sign to see if they are happy or not.

Just a comment on the scratching - my one daughter has a very sensitive skin and was always scratching herself...right under the diaper line (I think the diaper irritated her). THis doesn't sound like the case for you (based on the other things happening), but I just wanted to mention it.

I really hope you can find something else. Most of the daycares around us take babies from 6 weeks already -- have you tried the chains? Kindercare worked really well for us.

Good luck!

 

QUOTE(double-or-nothing @ Mar 23 2008, 09:46 PM) [snapback]683351[/snapback]
BTW, I don't know if you heard but on the news recently here in the states, they had a story about a mom who put a recording device in her kindergartener's backpack because she suspected something was going on. Sure enough, she heard the teacher berating these poor little kids. She was yelling at them and screaming for them to hurry up and saying that they were all so stupid. Can you imagine??!!?? Just aweful. But this mother was able to get the evidence she needed and the teacher was removed from the classroom.


This is true. I'm not sure if it's the same story she is talking about but a very close friend of mine has a child who has cerebral palsy and cannot talk or do anything for himself. He goes to a special needs school and she thought something was going on. She put a tape recorder in his backpack and sure enough the situation that is described above is what happened. She and a few other parents immediately pulled their children out of school. Luckily enough my friend doesn't work outside the home (they own their own plumbing business) so she is able to watch him until she can find an alternative, but if your gut is telling you something is not right, then something is probably not right.

 

All i can think is that daycares must be WAY different in Greece than here in the states. For one, my center accepts children starting at 6 weeks old. I was appalled about what you said was going on in your DD's class! In NO way is it acceptable to restrain a child and force feed her. That has to do some terrible psychological damage!!! And I would be very suspicious about thoses scratches and bruises. Something is not adding up here! I do not think that you are overreacting at all!! I would be furious !!!

And don't beat yourself up for not notcing the signs earlier. I think that we just want to expect that a daycare is taking good care of our children, and it is really hard to see what is going on. I think your reaction is completely normal.

 

I am currently serving as chairman of my daycare center's board of directors. I had several issues come up about a year and a half ago and found a great way to 'fix' the problems was to oversee them. I know we actually fired an employee the other day because of harshness (words, no actions) with children. It is in our employee manual as a reason for immediate termination - I think it set a precedent with the other teachers that it will not be tolerated. I would definitely turn to administration as well to find out why they aren't more concerned about this. If they are letting this happen in one room then they are letting it happen in all the rooms. And if they claim they do not know, they aren't doing their job managing and evaluating the teachers and rooms like they are supposed to be doing.

One of my friends made a comment the other day about not wanting to be "that mom that complains all the time" but my feeling is you have to fight for your kids rights because no one else will and they are too young to do it themselves. I would fight for my job if I had been "wronged" - why would I not do the same for my child?

Good luck with this situation and please let us know how your meeting went.

 

How did today go?

 

Oh my goodness, that is absoluteky gutrenching. I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I really hope that Iris is ok. I agree with PP, get her out of there, things just do not seem to add up

I hope that your meeting is successful and that immediate changes are made at that daycare!!!!

I do not think that you are over-reacting, you are listening to momma instinct. Keep us posted!

 

Just wanted to send hugs and say I am sorry you are having to deal with this right now. :hug99: