Becoming Babywise

Hello! I am almost 35 weeks pregnant. I have a few friends with twins who used Babywise and swear by it. Has anyone used it and if so when did you start? Thanks so much!

 

I don't know mcuh about it, all I've heard is that it can be incredibly dangerous and that some babies whose moms used it died. After I read that, I never even considered reading the book.

 

Hi, welcome to TS! I just want to warn you that Babywise is a contraversial book and you might get a lot of negative responses to your question.

That said, I read Babywise when I was pregnant and then read a few chapters again when the girls were newborns. My DH also read the chapter in the book on multiples. It helped me so much! I think that with any book you read you have to use common sense and adapt the book's suggestions to your babies' needs.

It really depends on if you want to have your newborns on a schedule or not. If you want them to be scheduled then you'll probably benefit from reading the book. If you want to demand feed then don't waste your time reading it. Your babies will be just fine on a schedule or demand fed. It's your choice. Your babies will not die from you reading a book or being on a schedule.

 

We use babywise and started with day ONE! It has brought structure and order into my life - my babies are happy and content boys and EVERYONE says so!

I brought them home on the feeding schedule that the NICU had them on. Those first few weeks you really can't adapt an eat/play/sleep schedule b/c all they do is sleep. So once they were more alert then I began it in full.

We love it and plan to do it with all of our children.

I agree with pp, you will get alot of negative response from it - When I suggest it to friends I say to read it like you eat fish. Eat the meat and throw out the bones - take what you think will work for you and your family - you don't have to agree with everything. But i do think it is a beneficial book to read. We love it!

If you have any specific questions - please let me know. I know that it helped me actually talk to moms that did it and to ask very specific questions.

 

QUOTE(ladybenz @ Dec 27 2008, 09:35 PM) [snapback]1123373[/snapback]
I don't know mcuh about it, all I've heard is that it can be incredibly dangerous and that some babies whose moms used it died. After I read that, I never even considered reading the book.


to add - I am not sure how exactly accurate this is. There had to be some other issues other then Babywise that contributed to it.

 

I read some of this when we were going through extremely painful nights of bad sleep at 3 months of age. I agree, I got a few ideas from it, but it didn't feel like a match for me and the approach I wanted to take. I think the controversy was over the fact that it talks about feeding babies on a schedule you come up with rather than on demand. I really recommend Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child! And the Baby Whisperer gave me some ideas for routine too. I suggest reading several books (now is a good time!) and then see what feels best to you.

 

I skimmed it when my babies were about a month old and I was losing my mind with sleep deprivation and was grasping for some sort of routine. I loosely followed it as far as trying the Eat/Play/Sleep routine. I tried to stick with it, but it was hard to get them to "play". My son did ok for 20 minute increments under the activity gym. But I went out of my way trying to keep my daughter awake after the feeding. She had her days and nights mixed up for the longest time and slept most of the day and was awake a lot of the night (that was part of the reason I was scrounging around books for advice). It opened my eyes to some things I never realized - like even implementing an Eat/Play/Sleep routine, I don't know that it would have occurred to me that this is sort of a natural routine to follow and that sleeping as often as they did (all those "mini" naps) was ok and normal. It helped me to break down the day and make it more manageable. It was hard to follow when they were young, but it did open my eyes that it was possible to get them into a routine. And then a couple months into it, without really trying, they were natually doing it on their own anyway. That's pretty much what I took from the book. I'm baffled hearing all this negative feedback about it. I don't understand what is so controversial about it. I'm guessing because maybe it implies to stick to the 3 hour feeding schedule? I'd imagine most people would feed their babies sooner if they were hungry before the 3 hours were up. I suppose another controversial part might be the CIO for sleep? I can't remember everything it said on that, but I didn't follow that part of it either and we didn't implement napping in cribs until 3-4 months. But you just take from it what you think works for you and leave the rest.

 

I used it with all three of my babies and it has some great ideas. As far as babies dying from a book--that would be called common sense. I found it very helpful in giving guidlines for a routine. I was able to follow it fairly close with my son who was not a preemie. My girls, on the other hand, were preemies and I only used the book as a guideline when I needed help. It is only to be used as a guideline--not the handbook for raising children. Establishing a routine is important, but when babies are preemies, as twins usually are, the only routine they are going to have is eat, sleep, eat, sleep. So, you have to be mindful of what works for you and what won't as you read the book. Some things I agreed with, some things just didn't work for me. But overall, I thought it was very helpful.

 

Okay, the first thing you need to do is search this forum for all the moms who used attachment or fed on demand. You will see that now that they are older many of them can't calm themselves, fall asleep on their own, or even entertain themselves. I realize this is the norm, and not the exception as the babies are conditioned to certain behaviors as early as 4 months old.
I had both my sons (3.5 and 1.5) on Babywise and they did great! My twins are now 4 weeks old and sleep 4 hour stretches at night. The book does a good job explaining why babies NEED schedules. Think about it, do kids go to school and eat on demand or wander around doing whatever they wish? Kids are happier with structure, and babies are as well.

 

I found it to be helpful with eat/play/sleep. Emotions tend to run high with how babies should be fed, etc. That said, most people know how to apply things appropriately. I say, read and glean from it was is useful .

 

I read Babywise but I couldn't get on board with some aspects of it. Instead I settled on a modified version of the Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child program. I found it much more practical for twins.

Babywise gets negative comments on here all the time from people who have heard rumors that it's a dangerous system to use. Personally, I feel that you have to take anything you read with a grain of salt and you have to adjust for your own purposes somewhat. Babywise isn't inherently dangerous, so long as you use common sense and your mother's instinct (same goes for any sleep training really).

 

QUOTE(4under4mom @ Dec 28 2008, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1123440[/snapback]
Okay, the first thing you need to do is search this forum for all the moms who used attachment or fed on demand. You will see that now that they are older many of them can't calm themselves, fall asleep on their own, or even entertain themselves. I realize this is the norm, and not the exception as the babies are conditioned to certain behaviors as early as 4 months old.
I had both my sons (3.5 and 1.5) on Babywise and they did great! My twins are now 4 weeks old and sleep 4 hour stretches at night. The book does a good job explaining why babies NEED schedules. Think about it, do kids go to school and eat on demand or wander around doing whatever they wish? Kids are happier with structure, and babies are as well.

Umm, I fed on demand and my kids have no issues with calming themselves, falling asleep on their own, or entertaining themselves. I think that is a very bold blanket statement to make about attachment parenting or those of us who choose to feed on demand.

I will address your second point in that I do agree that kids do better with structure, but I also think that is something you work toward- not start on day one from bringing them home from the hospital. But with that being said, I find nothing wrong with finding what works for you and your family whether that is scheduling or feeding on demand, but putting down others for what they do/did is inappropriate. Also, what may work for you now, may not work as the babies get older. One thing I have learned is to never say never with twins. So be careful as you too could be feeding twins on demand at some point as things are totally different with two babies.

 

Worked great for my twins... brought structure & order when I reallt\y needed it & they STTN by 12 wks... that being said, I'm finding its a bit harder when breast feeding. The author points out MANY times though not to be too rigid w/ a schedule at any point, but none of the criticism blobs seem to ever point that out.

 

It worked for my singletons brilliantly!!! BUT the twins were another story. We basically follow it, but with them sharing a room they do wake each other up. I agree...just use common sense...if your babies are hungry outside of the schedule, feed them!

 

QUOTE
Okay, the first thing you need to do is search this forum for all the moms who used attachment or fed on demand. You will see that now that they are older many of them can't calm themselves, fall asleep on their own, or even entertain themselves. I realize this is the norm, and not the exception as the babies are conditioned to certain behaviors as early as 4 months old.


Sorry, that's just not true. I fed on demand, and some of the things I did (and do) might be labelled AP, and my babies were falling asleep on their own from 6 months, and have generally always done pretty well for their age at calming and entertaining themselves.

Also, any book that tells you that babies under 4 mo can be "conditioned" to certain behaviors is grossly underinformed about infant brain development. They just can't form habits that early.

Yet another problem: Babywise says that feeding on a schedule will make your baby sleep. But nobody I ask about it can explain why this might be. What's the connection? Has any research ever supported this idea? A much better book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, states clearly that sleep comes from the brain, not from the stomach. (And it's by a leading pediatric sleep researcher, not a guy who got kicked out of his own church.)

You'll hear negative feedback about the book for very good reasons. The AAP publicly condemned Babywise after it was implicated in many cases of dehydration and failure to thrive. You can read all about it here.

On a more philosophical level, the message implicit (or not so implicit) in Babywise is that babies are manipulative (eg they're just crying to MAKE you pick them up), and that everything is a power struggle from day one. Apparently babies are smart enough to manipulate their parents (before their brains have developed far enough to understand cause and effect, ahem), but too dumb to know when they're hungry. Here's another interesting article about some of the disturbing ideas in the book.

None of this means that moms who do Babywise are bad. But you'll notice a big common theme in the testimony of parents who've used it without hospitalizing their kids: "you have to take it with a grain of salt," "you have to use common sense," "I just took what I needed," etc. If common sense is something you have to bring to a book from outside, then surely there isn't enough of it inside?

Anyway, here are some books I'd highly recommend:

-the AAP's Caring for Your Baby and Young Child
-Happiest Baby on the Block (there's a DVD of this that's really good)
-Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

These are all great!

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

 

QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ Dec 27 2008, 08:16 PM) [snapback]1123499[/snapback]
Sorry, that's just not true. I fed on demand, and some of the things I did (and do) might be labelled AP, and my babies were falling asleep on their own from 6 months, and have generally always done pretty well for their age at calming and entertaining themselves.

Also, any book that tells you that babies under 4 mo can be "conditioned" to certain behaviors is grossly underinformed about infant brain development. They just can't form habits that early.

Yet another problem: Babywise says that feeding on a schedule will make your baby sleep. But nobody I ask about it can explain why this might be. What's the connection? Has any research ever supported this idea? A much better book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, states clearly that sleep comes from the brain, not from the stomach. (And it's by a leading pediatric sleep researcher, not a guy who got kicked out of his own church.)

You'll hear negative feedback about the book for very good reasons. The AAP publicly condemned Babywise after it was implicated in many cases of dehydration and failure to thrive. You can read all about it here.

On a more philosophical level, the message implicit (or not so implicit) in Babywise is that babies are manipulative (eg they're just crying to MAKE you pick them up), and that everything is a power struggle from day one. Apparently babies are smart enough to manipulate their parents (before their brains have developed far enough to understand cause and effect, ahem), but too dumb to know when they're hungry. Here's another interesting article about some of the disturbing ideas in the book.

None of this means that moms who do Babywise are bad. But you'll notice a big common theme in the testimony of parents who've used it without hospitalizing their kids: "you have to take it with a grain of salt," "you have to use common sense," "I just took what I needed," etc. If common sense is something you have to bring to a book from outside, then surely there isn't enough of it inside?

Anyway, here are some books I'd highly recommend:

-the AAP's Caring for Your Baby and Young Child
-Happiest Baby on the Block (there's a DVD of this that's really good)
-Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

These are all great!

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.




The problem I see with feeding on demand is that is seems as soon as a baby cries that means they are hungry so I'm going to shove a boob or bottle in their mouth. Babies cry for many different reasons and when you have a schedule you have a better idea of why your baby is crying. If you just gave them a full feed an hour before it's most likely they are crying for other reasons. That does not mean that the baby is always going to be hungry in exactly 3 hours but you have a better idea of when they will be. There is good concepts in Baby wise but as with ANY book you need to use your own commen sense and judgement. If your baby is crying in 2.5 hours and they are not tired and other reasons have been looked at then of course feed your baby... duh.

 

p.s. woops, my last post was supposed to say "none if the criticism BLOGS seem to..." (blogs, not blobs)... I wasn't tring to name call, I just didn't notice the error before I could edit my post because I had to get offline to nurse! again, woops!

 

I only read a few of the responses. Babywise is not a book I would recommend. The AAP has come out against it since so many moms of newborns were following it so strictly that there was a failure to thrive issue.

However, I did see a comment that said read it if you want a schedule. I disagree. My ped put us on a 3 hour feeding schedule. We were to have 1 4 hour stretch at night. We stayed on that schedule until around 4 months then went to 4 hour feeds, and longer at night. My ped also said give them more if they want more, of course! So during growth spurts they would eat more frequently.

Newborn babies do not manipulate you and do not even understand cause and effect until 6 months. Please remember that if you do choose to read the book. If your newborn is crying, there is a REASON. Also, your baby is not going to overfeed itself. So if it is crying and it just ate, and you give it more to eat, yeah- it might be hungry!!!! There were phases when mine would eat every 1.5 hours!

The Happiest Baby on the Block is really good, talks about the 4th trimester. Makes total sense. The book 12 hours sleep by 12 weeks is really good too. And, she talks specifically about twins which I found very helpful. Basically, I read a bunch of different books, took what I liked and what worked, and left the rest.

 

I didn't realize there was such controversy over this book! I read several books when the babies were born, Baby Whisperer, HSHHC, Babywise and a few others. I think what was most useful to me was the Happiest Baby on the Block to help understand sleeping, and to help calm fussy babies ( I often had two of these!). HSHHC was also very useful. I liked the idea of a routine, but found despite my best efforts I couldn't really get my babies on a schedule until around 5months old. I did feed on demand, but I used common sense, if they just ate an hour before and were now crying, I would check the "vitals" diaper, temperature, soother etc, if none of those worked I would try feeding, and if that calmed them down - then they needed to eat!
There were many times that my babies needed to eat more frequently then every 3hrs (growth spurts etc), I know it is exhausting but it is easier to feed them then hear them scream for an hour or two because they are hungry. Just try not to be too rigid, and try to follow the babies cues.

Good luck! : )

 

Wow I've never even heard of babywise, I guess I don't read enough. With that said I have 3 kids and honestly think that each one is so different so I have adapted basic ideas to each one. I did read HSHHC which I think gives great ideas on sleep. I didn't really apply it to my DS b/c he was super colicy and very hard to deal with. I have BF all 3 kids and have 3 great sleepers and very happy children. I think routines are very important for sleep and schedule is good to but must be right for the child. I can't even stick to a strict schedule so I guess I wouldn't be too good at babywise. You'll do what is right for your babies, it's all trial and error and it'll work itself out in the end, the time goes by so fast!

 

I'm a fan of Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Baby. I never read Babywise. But my babies came home from the hospital on a 4 hour feeding schedule, and really never altered from it. Also, mine started STTN at 4 months. I take credit for none of these things. That was what they wanted/needed. I certainly did not TRAIN my babies to feel this way.

I don't think moms that feed on demand stick a bottle in their child's mouth at every cry. If you just fed them, you probably won't do that. You'll check if they are wet. If they are tired, Maybe they are just bored. Or fussy. Sometimes babies cry, as we all know. I can't imagine a parent with a child on a 4 hour schedule that WOULDN'T try giving their baby another bottle if they were screaming non-stop for 2 hours and you tried everything else!

It's a lot of trial and error, and it's also learning about your specific babies. Good luck!

 

QUOTE
The problem I see with feeding on demand is that is seems as soon as a baby cries that means they are hungry so I'm going to shove a boob or bottle in their mouth. Babies cry for many different reasons and when you have a schedule you have a better idea of why your baby is crying. If you just gave them a full feed an hour before it's most likely they are crying for other reasons.


This is exactly where schedule feeding can become dangerous. "Feed on a schedule, but depart from the schedule if your baby is hungry" --- well, following a scheduled approach like Babywise strongly disinclines a mom to consider any crying before 3 hrs hunger, right?

Also, let's toss out Ezzo's lies about what demand feeding means. Check out how the AAP or any credible source describes feeding on demand: feeding a baby whenever he shows signs of hunger. (Notice that that does not say "whenever the baby cries.") Personally, I think the ideal in parenting is to KNOW your child and his/her cues. It would be as ignorant to feed a baby who's not hungry as it is to keep a baby waiting until the schedule says they can eat (because it's not 3 o'clock, so he can't possibly be hungry, right?).

And ditto pp - babies can be hungry an hour after eating. Think about it. They're trying to double their body weights, and they have stomachs smaller than a golf ball. They have to keep tanking up pretty frequently. Once in a while, they might be hungry that soon after eating. And during a growth spurt, you bet they might want to eat again an hour after eating! Especially if mom is BFing - that's nature's way of boosting her milk supply to meet the baby's growing needs.

And as to a schedule telling you why your baby is crying - you can also just look at your BABY and see why your baby is crying. Seriously, what mom needs a schedule to tell her when her baby is hungry or tired, or why they're crying? Isn't it just obvious?

 

QUOTE(blended6 @ Dec 28 2008, 05:20 AM) [snapback]1123533[/snapback]
The problem I see with feeding on demand is that is seems as soon as a baby cries that means they are hungry so I'm going to shove a boob or bottle in their mouth.

Feeding on demand, does not mean that as soon as the baby starts to cry shove food at them??!! We all have common sense here and realize that all babies cry for lots of different reasons, not just for food.

QUOTE(caba @ Dec 28 2008, 12:53 PM) [snapback]1123634[/snapback]
I don't think moms that feed on demand stick a bottle in their child's mouth at every cry. If you just fed them, you probably won't do that. You'll check if they are wet. If they are tired, Maybe they are just bored. Or fussy. Sometimes babies cry, as we all know. I can't imagine a parent with a child on a 4 hour schedule that WOULDN'T try giving their baby another bottle if they were screaming non-stop for 2 hours and you tried everything else!


Exactly!

QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ Dec 28 2008, 01:04 PM) [snapback]1123641[/snapback]
And ditto pp - babies can be hungry an hour after eating. Think about it. They're trying to double their body weights, and they have stomachs smaller than a golf ball. They have to keep tanking up pretty frequently. Once in a while, they might be hungry that soon after eating. And during a growth spurt, you bet they might want to eat again an hour after eating! Especially if mom is BFing - that's nature's way of boosting her milk supply to meet the baby's growing needs.

Excellent point Holly! :good:

 

I've never heard of Babywise until this thread. I read Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child and found it useful to learn about infant sleep patterns (his version of a nap schedule was no help to my nap refusing twins, we kind of had to let them dictate that for us) but the book I found the most helpful was by Ann Douglas called Sleep Solutions for your infant and toddler, she goes through sleep patterns and does talk about HSHHC, CIO, etc. She also goes into why sleep patterns might change, what causes night waking when children are older and what can be done about them.

 

I don't like books overall, all babies are different and what works for you might not work for someone else... I didn't read babywise but read their forums, and took a few ideas from it... It helped me to put them on a routine at first, but it only worked for a couple months before the babies decided to make their own routine.

 

I actually fed mine on demand for the first 7 months before forming more of a schedule. This is what my mommy instincts told me mine needed. However, I read Babywise and it helped me b/c I was a first-time mom and had no idea how to take care of newborns. So, I did eat/play/sleep, (or switched it around to play/eat/sleep, i.e. bath, bottle, bed). So our eat/play/sleep wasn't a three hour stretch, but at least I felt like I knew what I was doing. It also had great examples of what "play" is for a small one. HTH .

 

Again, I'll state that I have not read the book--but it seems that the people in this thread doing the name calling and criticizing other's parenting methods are the ones who follow it.

Nice.

Frankly, the guy who wrote it has absolutely NO credentials, and even his own kids have come out and said their father is WRONG. His church kicked him out and the AAP says he's dangerous.

Children have DIED.

But those of us who "shove a boob" in a hungry child's face are the bad parents?

 

i don't know how anyone even has the TIME to read anything with two newborns. lol ardon:

 

This is always a heated topic. I'd like to ask that we at least remain respectful to each other. Everyone is going to have a different approach to parenting and no one thing is going to work for everyone 100% of the time. It doesn't mean that people who do it differently than you are wrong, they just chose a different approach.

Personally I never read either of those books, I just didn't have the time. I think you have to take all advice , regardless of where you read it, with a grain of salt. Ultimately you have to make the best decision for your babies and use common sense.

 

QUOTE(ddancerd1 @ Dec 28 2008, 11:51 AM) [snapback]1123766[/snapback]
i don't know how anyone even has the TIME to read anything with two newborns. lol ardon:


I love that you bring in humor to the situation. :Clap:

 

Just had to chime in and say that I've definitely "shoved a boob" in all 3 of my kiddos mouths (and my oldest DS had a "boob shoved at him" for 29 months! ) - and all 3 sleep just fine, calm themselves beautifully, and have absolutely no problems entertaining themselves appropriate for their ages. Everyone has their own view on "good" parenting - but I think that generalization about babies who are fed on demand and whose parents practice AP was just not necessary. Many of us pride ourselves on our AP ways - but we don't make generalizations about the babies of non-"AP"ing parents.

 

[SIZE=14pt]I read Babywise first and got that down very well! eat/play/seep every 4 hours, my babes came home on that schedule on the NICU. Thought hey, I've got this stuff down, no problem, it's easy being a mom.

Then people started asking me about naps, how long, when, how often. And I started reading the forums talking about naps, DS had 1, DD wouldn't go down, DS only slept for 30 min etc. . . . Well then I started thinking, OMG, I don't know when they nap, how long they nap, how often they nap. They ate after they woke up, slept after they played a bit, I wasn't keeping track!

SO I read Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child. And it talked ALL about naps, how important they are etc. . . MUST have one in the morning, 9-10 a.m. and in the afternoon, 12-2. Holy Cow, I was NOT doing that!!

So now I'm confused again! And they'll start daycare which will make it even better ;o)

So basically, do what works for you until it doesn't. . .[/SIZE]

 

WOW! I had no idea when I posted this topic that I would get such hostile responses. I have a 4 year old daughter who has terrible sleep habits still so I was looking for advice from moms with twins. A friend of mine said that she loves this site and it has been very helpful for her. Thanks to those of you who posted a response who offered support with this situation. I am on bedrest so now is the time that I have to read about this topic. I know once the twins come I will not have much time to do anything. Unfortunately, I am unable to breastfeed. I found that out with my daughter. So thanks for the suggestions for other books that people have found helpful in this journey. Obviously everyone has strong opinions on this topic. I am a little disappointed in the lack of respect some have for others and I will think twice before posting anything again. I was looking forward to using this site as a great resource/support network. :mellow:

 

I did read it. I took what I thought was important from it. My understanding of the book is a flexible schedule...anyway, thats exactly what I have for my girls. We have a schedule, but many times they are hungry a little 'early' - I guess you could say its more of a routine for each day, and I follow their cues. It ends up being pretty consistent.

 

:hug: I'm so sorry that you are disappointed with the responses, I've never read Babywise and just responded to what someone else had said about particular parenting methods. Please don't base your thoughts regarding this forum on this thread - I have been visiting TS and The First Year for the past 11 months and honestly, this is only like the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen a "heated" thread. This IS a very supportive community - and it seems like you can always count on at least 1 person on this site who has also gone through exactly what you are going through. I've always, always, always received thoughtful, supportive responses to my many posts. Give it a second chance - this is a great community.