Awesome article

Discussion in 'The First Year' started by Meximeli, May 10, 2011.

  1. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    Breastfeeding Research = Massive Guilt

    I found myself saying Yes! Yes! all through this article, here's how it ends

    I hate that to be made to feel like I have to acknowledge that formula feeding is "just as good." when it's CLEARLY not. For those of you who don't know me as well, I don't think formula is poisen or should be illegal or anything like that--my twins got about 50% of their feeds from formula in their first six months. But I did that knowing that formula was second best, and second best is not just as good. It's not. And I won't walk around on egg shells saying it is.
     
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  2. miss_bossy18

    miss_bossy18 Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    I really liked the paragraph under Watch Your Language.

    I think this goes back to the issue of the system failing women. There isn't enough information or easily/readily accessible & knowledgeable support for those times in the early days/weeks/months when a new mom runs into a road bump with breastfeeding & has no idea who to turn to to fix it or make it better.
     
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  3. k2daho

    k2daho Well-Known Member

    I agree that the system fails women, but I also don't see why we always pawn it off on that.

    As a Mother to be I made a choice to educate myself on what was best for my children. No one beat down my door shoving information about BFing, or ways to reduce chances of SIDS, or how to properly install and harness a child into a car seat among many, many, many other things that are "new" to new parents. It's our responsibility the second we choose to conceive a child to start worrying and learning about what is best for them.

    I was lucky that there were great BFing resources available in my area, but I had to ask for them. No one called me, my OB didn't set up any appointments, I on my own had to seek out a pediatrician (and I interviewed a few) who fully supported BFing and was extremely knowledgeable not only from her BFing experience but from supporting lots of other BFing Moms and babes. I joined a multiples group and requested info and asked other Moms of twins about their BFing experiences. This was all before I even had my babies. I armed myself with knowledge so that I would have less chances of failing.

    I do know and have friends who have done all of these same things and still weren't able to breast feed. One was so devastated that she wasn't producing enough, and she saw specialist after specialist and there was nothing that could be done. I understand that, I really felt for her, and she tried her darndest. I don't understand though why when we accept people not trying their hardest for something that is SO important. Formula is NOT as good as breast milk. Not even close. Study after study show the positive effects of breast feeding for baby and Mother. Why do we accept mediocrity when it comes to this issue and we do not when it comes to many others? No one would say it's "just as good" if someone wanted to forward face their infant because their car was too small to rear face or it was just too much work for them to do it. I know it's a different issue entirely, but it's funny how we think about BFing as a choice that each woman has to make, but all sorts of other safety/health precautions are mandated.

    Anyways, I'm a bit of a raging lactivist, mostly just in my personal life...I don't often share my thoughts as I know that I could easily offend lots of Mothers, though it's never my intention.

    I think it's time we all took more responsibility for the health of children I guess. The information is out there if you look for it.
     
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  4. cheezewhiz24

    cheezewhiz24 Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    It's so hard. I am a type A personality who took a full week to decide whether I wanted to BF- then when I did decide to do it, I moved heaven and earth to do so. This included classes, this site, reading books, getting the pillow and a Boppy in advance. It's not an easy thing to do and I was fortunate to find a Baby Friendly hospital where when I wasn't good at latching on a baby the LC's would help during the day but the nurses were trained by the LCs and could latch them on as well. Frankly my DH latched on S for the first week. He was difficult (S) and I could not figure out what I needed to do to get him to nurse but my DH could see the angle from a different perspective.


    The argument above about the FF infant is an interesting one. I don't like to hear the defense of formula (it's just as good- no, it's really not!), either. I feel like it's a way to get off the hook for a decision you made to not BF, although there are a select group who do actually need it.
     
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  5. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    I also like the FF facing example--how did you know my car is too small to have rear facing in the back seat?

    I've also heard it compared to chaning diapers. I'm sure none of us were looking forward to changind diapers but we all just knew it was part of having a baby--well except those elimination communication crazies! (sorry, if any of you are, but I can't imagine a twin mom having time for that!) But anyway, at 15 months my son has come to HATE diaper changes, he fusses and cries, twists and turns, grabs his poop to make me angry. So it would be a lot easier to just stop changing him. But society will not accept that. The first two months of his life, changing him was easy, but breastfeeding him was the struggle then. It would have been so much easier to just stop breastfeeding him--and SOCIETY WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED THAT.
     
  6. miss_bossy18

    miss_bossy18 Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    i agree that the info & support's all out there and if you're determined enough you'll find what you need to meet your goals. i think most of us here have been through that process. my point is that you shouldn't have to. i imagine more women would meet their own goals for breastfeeding if the support was just there, built into the system, and easily accessible. i mean just look at the high rate of women initiating breastfeeding - women want to breastfeed. i certainly know in my case it never crossed my mind that breastfeeding could or would be difficult. so when it was it was really, really overwhelming. emotionally & physically & mentally. i had the support & encouragement i needed from the people in my life to hang on through those tough times till we figured it out, but if i hadn't had that, i would have stopped breastfeeding. i held on by the skin of my teeth, but it wouldn't have taken much for me to have made a different choice.

    i don't think the diaper thing or the car seat examples are fully adequate (although i do see the point you're making) - simply put, both of those issues are not so fully & completely reliant on the mother's energy, time, faith, emotional & mental well being as breastfeeding is. i just don't think we can judge this because we aren't living inside any one individual mother's head. we can't truly understand what she's thinking or feeling or what ends up being the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak. i just don't think this issue is black & white - i think it's all gray. and i'm not willing to blame a mother for not breastfeeding, especially when in the current system it's unlikely it was much of "choice".
     
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  7. E&Msmom

    E&Msmom Well-Known Member

    Its not so much discussing the benefits of breastfeeding either, its discussing the RISK of NOT breastfeeding.
    Breastfeeding is not a personal decision. It a medical one. But people don't take it as such. How you feed your child and what you feed your child affect so much of them and long term not just the first 12 months.

    I personally hate "Free" Formula samples. They aren't free. People pay for those. Mothers & baby's health issues pay for those samples.
    I don't think anyone can make a mother feel guilty about her decision to BF or FF. If the mother is feeling guilty, thats something she needs to address not something someone has done to her.

    I often wish formula was available only by prescription. To me its one thing when a mother "tries" and it doesn't work out. its something else entirely when they don't even consider breastfeeding. ever.
     
  8. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member

    I respect your opinion on breastfeeding and your conviction that it is FAR superior. However, I respectfully disagree. You can go out and research and google whatever you want and you will find "studies" to support your argument. From what I have researched and in my personal experience formula is very nutritional and beneficial for babies. I have CHOSEN to only FF all 3 of my children and they are far more healthy and robust than SOME breasfed babies that I know. We are talking about breastfed babies with illness after ilness in their first year. RSV, strep, ear infections, diarrhea. Not my FF babies. Also, as far as the IQ issue. Apparantly the average IQ for BF babies is like ONE or TWO points higher than FF babies, which could also be associated with the socioeconomic status of the parents (having a more vested interest in education).

    What I am saying is for me I just didnt want someone attached to my boob all the time, and I knew that going into motherhood. Selfish? No. I am a happier more stable mom this way. My DH can contribute. I have 3 kids. You wish
    formula were presciption only? C'mon. Just do what you think is best for your baby and leave it at that, and other mothers will do what they think is best for THEIR baby. Mothers need to support eachother. Not criticize how we nourish our kids.
     
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  9. k2daho

    k2daho Well-Known Member

    Nobody's saying that formula can't be nutritional or beneficial for babies. It's not poison, that's been well established, and many babies needs something other than their Mother's breast milk to thrive. And of course there are very healthy formula fed babies. I am one of them. My Mother breast fed me once in the hospital and then never again. I've been incredibly healthy all of my life, am tall for a woman at 5'9, and at least I would say I'm a very intelligent person lol. There are also of course breast fed babies who get sick. Some who get sick a lot. What you simply can't dispute is that breast milk (the milk that your baby is intended to be fed when it's born. period.) is superior. Any milk made by a Mother animal for her baby is designed specifically for them. And not just for a baby in general, for YOUR baby. Formula will never be that. I'm sorry but you just can't dispute it. I'm not breast feeding because I think that my baby will never get a cold, and certainly not because I think that it will make them 2 IQ points higher than formula fed babies. I'm doing it because they deserve what nature intended for them. Just the same way that I do my absolute best (barring situations where it's near to or impossible)to feed them fresh fruits ,vegetables, meat, fish and any other whole foods that I can instead of feeding them packaged foods full of preservatives, salt, hydrogenated fats and who knows what else.

    As for DH contributing, my DH contributed lots to my breast feeding and to feeding the babies, especially in early days. He was always there to change a baby and bring them to me and then swaddle and return them to bed for those middle of the night feedings so that I barely needed to wake up. I was able to pump and he bottle fed them so that I could a break when I needed it whether it be in the middle of the night so that I could sleep, or to go out and get my hair cut or spend some time with a girlfriend. I didn't have a baby "attached to my boob" all of the time. I probably spent the same time nursing my baby as you spent holding a bottle for yours minus bottle washing and preparing formula.

    Anyhow, in the end I agree that criticizing for no reason other than to criticize is not productive, but if no one stands up and says what's best for babies/children for fear of hurting someone else's ego or feelings, then how will children benefit from that? It's important to step outside of our own feeling/wants/desires to realize that being a parent simply isn't about what's convenient or easiest for the us. It would be a harsh step to have formula be prescription only, but maybe it would make people think a little more or get more educated about the importance of breast milk before they bought that can of formula.
     
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  10. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    It's not a personal choice issue--it's a public health issue.
    Like the pp mentioned, of course there are example of sick breastfed babies and healthy formula feed babies. Just are there are individual examples of everything. Statisitics are across the board.
    I just read that ear infections are down 50% since 1990 and that is tied to children not being exposed to second hand smoke in the home--that does not mean all children who get ear infections are exposed to second hand smoke, nor that all children who are exposed to second hand smoke will get ear infections. It's an across the board statistic.

    Mutygirl if you are happy and confortable with your choice that's fine--this topic is in the breastfeeding forum, we did not seek you out to personally critize you, so don't come here looking for us saying that we did.
     
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  11. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member

    last time I checked this is a public forum and I can read and comment on any thing I want. And I did so respectfully. If YOU don't want negative responses don't post on such a sensitive topic. So you are saying breastmilk is best because it's easier on tummies, or you don't really have a specific reason. just that it's mothers milk. Could it be a pride thing for some mothers? I alone fed my babies from my body?

    Not that I should have to explain myself as to why I commented...but here is why I am commenting. My girlfriend's new baby is not gaining weight properly and I was coming here to see if I could get some insight, or information. Or if this was normal for breastfed babies. I am trying to support my friend. I will NOT be returning to this forum.
     
  12. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    You started the snarkiness with the above comment. Nowhere in this thread were we critizing specific people. Nor were we even critizing some use of formula--myself and others here have fed our babies through a wide variety of means.
     
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  13. k2daho

    k2daho Well-Known Member

    It's not because it's easier on tummies (although I'm sure for some that's true), it's because it's natural, real, and intended for babies. Not something made in a factory. Certainly I am proud of the fact that I've breast fed my babies, but mostly it's just normal. It's what our bodies were intended to do. Personally I also think that drinking cow's milk is weird...so it's not just a formula thing. Not saying that I never use cow's milk ever, but it's definitely not intended as a main source of nutrition for humans. It's for cows! Just like breast milk is for human children!

    If your girlfriend needs some help or advice, then surely we are happy to help. You never ever mentioned that in your post.

     
  14. cheezewhiz24

    cheezewhiz24 Well-Known Member TS Moderator


    I (& I'm sure others as well) would be happy to support you and your friend. It's great that you are supporting your friend by seeking out info... feel free to start a thread explaining the problem in detail so that we may be able to address it. One of the things that this thread shows is just how bent on getting babies to nurse from a boob we all are. :)
     
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  15. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member

    First, I just happened upon this thread because of the title. I just meant to lurk, then couldnt help biting my tongue. I was just searching topic in this forum with weight gain related issues.

    So really you just are against it because it ""natural". Not because it's unhealthy. So there is nothing factual backing up your opinion. It is just that...your opinion.

    As far as drinking cow's milk, in my eyes its just the circle of life. We take from other species to nourish our own. No snarkiness intended. Just kinda what I feel on that topic.

    I sensed a superior attitude from some above comments that rubbed me the wrong way, so I really do apologize if I came of snarky.
     
  16. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member


    that comment is not snarky in the least


    that comment is not snarky in the least
     
  17. AmynTony

    AmynTony Well-Known Member

    the incidence of ear infections are also down due to the meningitis vaccine - the same strain of bacteria that cause meningitis also causes otitis media (ear infections)
     
  18. becasquared

    becasquared Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    I usually stay out of BF vs formula threads because I'm happy with my choice and couldn't care less what someone else feeds their child, as long as their child thrives. But you have to admit, that one size does not fit all; for medical reasons or other personal reasons. Breastmilk is not be best for everyone, so aren't we all happy that science is there to help us out? Formula is a damn close substitute for those that choose not to breast feed. Murtygirl, I admire your willingness to go into the fire and take on the Lactivists, and Meli, it says on the forum description that bottle feeding mothers are welcome too.

    I would say that I wish we could keep the discussion civil, but I have never seen a thread on BF vs formula stay civil without some hurt feelings. It seems that the people that feed formula feel that it's implied (or outright told) that what they have chosen to feed their child is second best. But that's just it, it's not second best *for them*. It's the best choice for that particular person. It's a personal choice, just like circumcision, or religion.
     
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  19. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member

    Wow...perfectly stated:) Thank you.
     
  20. AmynTony

    AmynTony Well-Known Member


    agreed!

    also can someone explain (and there is no snark here) why not breastfeeding is a public health issue? When I think of public health issues, my mind wanders to things like contaminated water, AIDS epidemic, and not vaccinating and the loss of herd immunity - I keep seeing that phrase tossed around, while I'm not gleaning any information about the "risks" of formula feeding...I'm a proud formula feeder - and while the lactivists may find this distasteful, it was best for ME!!! I damn near lost my mind the first 3 months between colic, sleep deprivation and undiagnosed PPD - there is no way in holy hell I could have breastfed - especially not Abby - my areola was larger than her face!
     
  21. sullivanre

    sullivanre Well-Known Member

    I think having a bunch of people who don't or haven't breastfed (or don't want to breastfeed) coming into a breastfeeding forum to comment is kind of like having a bunch of singleton (only) moms sign up and post in the other forums. It's not that people can't comment at all, but it's just kind of fishy. :catfight: :rotflmbo:
     
  22. sullivanre

    sullivanre Well-Known Member

    It's not personal opinion; it's scientific fact. There are numerous scientific studies that find lower incidences of allergies, ear infections, stomach viruses, and other positive health outcomes for infants, and these studies are published in reputable journals, where they use statistical controls for variables like education, income, maternal age, and so on. I have yet to see a study that finds greater health outcomes for infants who are exclusively formula fed, but I have seen studies that find no statistically significant differences for certain outcomes.

    Furthermore, the research on the health benefits for mothers is even stronger. There is a very strong decrease in the risk of breast cancer for nursing mothers, and nursing mothers are more likely to lose the baby weight.

    Furthermore, there are other non health related benefits of nursing that motivate many women. I know for me the cost, my dislike of doing dishes, and the lesser environmental impact are just as great a motivator as any health benefit.

    I look at this just like any other feeding issue. For example, I'm pretty sure that my kids would be healthier if they ate more lean meats and vegetables and less sugar and processed food. There's research that documents that many processed foods are not as healthy. That doesn't mean that all kids who eat sugary processed foods are going to be at the doctor's office everyday, and it doesn't mean that in moderation these kinds of foods are relatively harmless. It's all about probabilities.

    I think when people say breastfeeding is healthier, some people hear, "People who don't breastfeed are bad parents." Saying something is healthier or even better, doesn't mean you think everyone who does something different is bad or inferior.
     
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  23. sullivanre

    sullivanre Well-Known Member

    I forgot to say; as I have said in the past. I think anyone who wants to promote breastfeeding, needs to get rid of the language of choice, especially the term "personal choice." The implication there is that caring for an infant is something done completely in isolation and not influenced by society at larger, or our peer groups, and family networks.

    So many women make the choice to initiated breastfeeding, but the social structure works against them being able to establish and maintain a breastfeeding relationship. Our "personal choices" are so heavily constrained by lack of education opportunities to learn about breastfeeding, lack of medical support, lack of familial support, social norms that sexualize and stigmatize women's breasts, inadequate family leave, and I'm sure a host of other things I'm forgetting.
     
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  24. lovelylily

    lovelylily Well-Known Member

    I think sometimes it's hard to understand what makes us feel strongly about invoking change regarding breastfeeding. I know for me personally is was because *I* felt so let down by the system and don't want my daughter (or any other woman) to have to go through that. Breastfeeding for me wasn't a big decision to make because I grew up around it. I never thought of not breastfeeding and I thought it would be easy. But it wasn't. I gave birth 9 weeks early and had only partial support in the hospital. On the surface they seemed very pro-breastfeeding, but as I spent time in the NICU I quickly realized that they were pro-breastmilk. Unfortunately, it's hard to keep producing the breastmilk if the breastfeeding isn't going very well. I fought a viciously hard battle getting my two to nurse for their first 4 months. I voluntarily paid a lactation consultant for over 30 visits to help with the issues I was having. It felt like I was battling everyone though. The nurses in the NICU kept trying to sneak them bottles everytime I turned around. My pediatrician kept expressing concerns over weight gain and of course her solution was formula, not increased support for breastfeeding. Everyone was telling me stories of how their milk "just didn't have any calories" and other such nonsense. People acted like I was crazy for working so hard at nursing as if I could never succeed and was being selfish for trying. At four months when Abby started having serious issues, I took her to 3 different professionals (2 peds & a LC) and none of them could figure out what was wrong. By the time I discovered it was a severe dairy allergy, all of my hard work had been undone. I could never fully get her back to the breast again. So devastating! I put in the time, I sought help, I did everything right, but the support just wasn't there. It doesn't mean I look at my 60% formula fed daughter and think I've failed. It means I wish it could have been different and I want that opportunity for others. That's what being a lactavist means to me.
     
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  25. rrodman

    rrodman Well-Known Member

    I did a combination of breastfeeding/pumping/supplementing with formula for eight weeks. I loathed every second of it. No exaggeration. I loathed it. As I consider having another child, I spend a lot of time thinking about whether to breastfeed at all the next time around. A part of me actually regretted doing it with the twins. The first eight weeks of their life is a blur of anger, depression, and frustration to me. I got to a point of anger at my babies, jealousy of my husband, and a feeling of violation of my own body. Right, wrong, societal, or personal, that's where I was. The day I made the decision to stop was the day I started enjoying being a parent.

    I say this to preface why some of the early posts in threads like this upset me. I came here a lot in those eight weeks. I don't think I ever posted. I just lurked. But despite a great LC in the hospital and through my pediatrician, it was this forum that got me eight weeks. A group of imperfect women supporting each other and demonstrating that it was possible to breastfeed twins. If I had come here and seen a threa like this, or like others I've seen here in the last year or so, I can tell you unequivocally that I would have been done at a week instead of eight. You want to promote breastfeeding? This doesn't do it. This turns this forum from a place of support into a place of devisiveness. If you make it a fight between breastfeeding moms and formula feeding moms, then people have to take sides. And people like me, for whom everything about breastfeeding was bad, are not going to choose your side. Because your side judges me and my meager efforts that cost me eight weeks of bonding with my children and feeling like a human being.

    The choice I made at eight weeks is second best in a vacuum. But it was vest for me and it is pretty damn close to best. We all make decisions every day that are second best. Sometimes I'm sure I get to third or fourth or fifth best. I'm good with that.

    It makes me sad to see a supportive place turned non supportive. And to see women told they don't have any business being here. It's not a password protected forum. People have reasons for lurking. And some of you are hurting your cause far more than helping it. If I do have another child, this is no longer a place I'd come to for support. And some of you are not people I'd ever trust for support.

    I do want to commend Rachel again for being precisely the supportive, encouraging voice that does make a difference to people like me. If you all want to encourage breastfeeding, you could take a lesson from her and people like her.
     
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  26. MarchI

    MarchI Well-Known Member

    So I breastfed my oldest for over 2 years and the twins I did my best and made it almost 2 months. With this one, I plan on attempting breastfeeding again and I will make my choice after he or she is born. I am fine with making these decisions and I feel no guilt over how I feed my family. I don't think it is the governments job to tell me what food I can and cannot feed to my children.

    Also, I don't believe taking away the choice to breast feed or formula feed will help anyone. That's great that so many people think breast milk is best. In my case, my oldest had ear infections after ear infection as well as allergies from allergens passed on in breast milk, the twins has only the ear infections, after we finished formula feeding. Overall, they have been less sick than my oldest.

    What are you going to do when you have babies starving because there mothers just don't make milk? Tell them to try harder? Tell them to take the weeks/months it takes to see every specialist not covered by insurance? Tell them "let it go" because your other kids/housework/life don't matter as long as you focus on breastfeeding? Tell them it is ok their 1 month old has fallen off his growth chart and cries constantly out of hunger? Really? Or is that when they get to have a prescription for formula, after they have put themselves through that misery? Post-partum is hard enough with all of the hormones, self-doubt and lack of control. Why would anyone want to impose more self doubt on women in that situation?

    I am not being snarky but I really would love to know what kind of support system/infrastructure you would build in order to give women the support (both mental and physical) in order to accomplish full time breastfeeding when it doesn't go "easy". I would also like to know how that support system is going to be paid for. It is great to talk in idealism but we live in reality.
     
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  27. southernmommy

    southernmommy Well-Known Member

    I breastfed all 7 of my children so I really am pro breastfeeding but I hate seeing topics that site studies that show how breastfeeding is so superior over formula. I honestly feel like its a I'm right your wrong type of thing. I'm sure 90% of woman know that in theory breastfeeding is better than formula feeding.

    I'm so glad when I had my 1st child 13yrs ago I didn't have internet. I knew no one who breastfed. I learned by reading books and talking to my drs. Never once did they shove it down my throat that if I didn't breastfeed that I was doing wrong for my child.

    When I weaned him at 6 months I never felt any guilt over giving him formula. All I knew was he was continuing to grow and thrive. He was still the happy healthy little boy he always was. If I wanted to do that today as a 1st time mom I would feel like I was the worst mother ever. I would be racked with guilt over being a failure because so many breastfeeding forums that I have seen are telling woman just that. There is no middle ground. Breastmilk is best period no other options.

    I can't see how this is anything other than a personal choice. It should not be forced upon any woman to breastfeed. She should not be made to feel guilty for doing what is best for her and her child.
     
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  28. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    Rachael (Jack and Anna Rachael),

    Why can't this forum serve dual purposes? I had A LOT of trouble the first 8 weeks with my singleton, and I can here explaining what was happening and I got help--no local options of LCs for me, so I had to rely on the people here. (You know what the amazing thing was that by 10 weeks nursing him was a breeze--total breeze, I have no reason to believe it wouldn't have been that way for you too. The first 8 weeks for ANY first time mom can be filled with anger, depression, and frustration--that's independant of breastfeeding issues and another societal trap our cultur has set up for us. Depression spirals out of control when we wonder why it isn't perfect like in the commercials?)

    But why can't this forum also be a place for those of us who are interested in breastfeeding as a topic and issue to connect and share? As you know, I live fairly isolated from true peers in that sense. If I could get together with the other two Rachael's, Jess, Michelle, Amanda, etc for coffee I would. But instead, I'm sitting in my office with my morning coffee typing into a computer. I didn't intend for this to be a debate, and I thought I choose a title that made that clear, I was sharing an article with like-minded friends (and like minded lurkers).
     
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  29. rrodman

    rrodman Well-Known Member

    It can be whatever you want it to be I guess. I can only tell you how reading things like this makes me feel. I understand and respect your passion. I think breastfeeding is best, and I think there should be so much more support for women doing it. But when it gets to the point of accusing women of bad choices, selfish choices, etc. you lose me. I don't think it would have gotten better for me. I hated it. I felt violated. And if I had read something about how I shouldn't even have a choice--that the government should take away my right to choose what to do with my body, that would have been it for me. It's not that different for me from the pro-choice/pro-life debate.

    You can post and discuss whatever you want. It doesn't make me think less of you as a person. But what I want to convey is that it does have consequences and those consequences may be the very opposite if what you want to achieve.
     
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  30. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member

    Fishy? I beg your pardon. Again this forum is public and bottle feeders are welcome as well. What's fishy is those who how try to guilt other momma's into feeding their children they way THEY want them to. If they are so in love with breastfeeding why can't they just enjoy it privately? I ntake offense to your comment. The opening post is combative by nature and it is only natural for others to comment who oppose.
     
  31. AmynTony

    AmynTony Well-Known Member

    in Rachel's defense she was kidding (hence the giggling smiley)...

    also (and perhaps this should be a separate topic or separate post) other than Rachel's statement about lower rates of breast cancer in moms I haven't seen anyone explain the "public health issue"...if you're speaking of the lower incidence of allergies and sickness in babies I believe that is anecdotal - you can show studies but I believe it comes down to genetics and the constitution of the child in question...I have plenty of friends that breast fed and their children have tubes in their ears, suffer from mind numbing food and environmental allergies, and I have just as many friends (myself included) that formula fed my children and who have never been to more than their pedi for routine checkups and a few colds that I panicked about...

    and formula by prescription - not in this lifetime...
     
  32. murtygirl

    murtygirl Well-Known Member

    Yes, I saw giggling smiley. I am becoming oversensitive now!!! Sorry. I guess I feel just as passionately about the choice of FF/BF with NO GUILT or PRESSURE as those do about BF ONLY. From the bottom of my heart, I just think we should all support each others decisions to FF or BF. Yes, certain things like "Formula is poison" may not be said outright. But the innuendo is there for sure. If bottlefeeders want to lurk in this forum or comment on certain thread, so be it. They/I have a right to defend or speak their minds and choices. Breastfeeding is great! But so is FF.
     
  33. AmynTony

    AmynTony Well-Known Member

    I'm the same way!
     
  34. seamusnicholas

    seamusnicholas Well-Known Member

    I was not successful nursing the boys and really wanted the chance to do it with this baby and I am glad it is working.

    My reason for wanting to this time was simply for the opportunity. I wanted to hold my baby close and feed her from me.

    When I read some things here (“formula by prescription” “thats something she needs to address not something someone has done to her”, the word “tries” in quotation marks) it reminds me of the lactation lady who came to help me on day 4 in the hospital with the boys (after never having pumped while the boys were given formula) and was degrading and harsh and brought me to tears! I was so thankful that this time the lady who helped me was gentle and kind and supportive.

    We all want and do what is best for our kids and our situations
     
    2 people like this.
  35. miss_bossy18

    miss_bossy18 Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    some things that i would like to see change in the system are:

    1. have more baby friendly designated hospitals. here are the 10 steps needed to become baby friendly:

    Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
    Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
    Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
    Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within half an hour of birth.
    Show mothers how to breastfeed, and how to maintain lactation even if they should be separated from their infants.
    Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breast milk, unless medically indicated.
    Practise rooming-in - that is, allow mothers and infants to remain together - 24 hours a day.
    Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
    Give no artificial teats or pacifiers (also called dummies or soothers) to breastfeeding infants.
    Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or clinic.

    i think those are pretty straight forward steps that don't necessarily cost a ton of money.

    2. because i think it's so important, i'm going to reiterate training of health care staff. one of the biggest issues in the system right now is the lack of education our health care providers have in supporting & protecting a breastfeeding relationship. when a care provider's first solution to a breastfeeding issue is to recommend supplementing, that's a clear sign that they do not know what they are doing when it comes to breastfeeding. supplementing should be a last option, not a first. educating staff may be a high cost initially, but i believe more women meeting (or even exceeding) their own personal breastfeeding goals would save the health care system money overall.

    3. from my own personal experience, i really wish options to bottlefeeding (such as cup or syringe feeding or the use of an SNS) had been offered to me when my girls were in the NICU. one of our biggest hurdles to overcome in the early weeks was nipple confusion. had my girls not been given bottles or pacifiers that could have been avoided. this would cost practically nothing to implement.

    4. i strongly believe that birth & postpartum doulas should be covered by health insurance companies. the benefit & support they offer through pregnancy, birth & the postpartum period are huge - and again, the cost of covering a doula would be offset by the savings in the reduction of pain medications used in labour, the reduction of c-births, and the increase of breastfeeding. one of the best ways to ensure success in a breastfeeding relationship is to ensure a good beginning so that problems & road bumps are less likely to occur. allowing a baby the time & opportunity to follow his/her instincts in latching on & nursing within the first hour after birth, without interuptions for weighing, measuring, eye drops, shots, routine suctioning, etc, etc, etc would make a huge difference in that initial imprinting period. in the UK, they are even starting to implement practices like imediate skin to skin & delayed cord clamping following c-births & they're finding that women are feeling more positive & satisfied with their birth experiences, as well as an increase in succesful nursing. these are small changes that pretty much only require a bit more patience on the part of doctors & nurses to implement.

    as for a postpartum doula, they take a huge amount of pressure off of a new mom - they help take care of everything & anything around the house & with the family allowing mom to ease through the transition period. they're also often well educated in breastfeeding & nursing, or at the very least can refer a mom to resources in her community, rather than mom having to call around to 20 places trying to find someone to help her.

    5. i think in the US especially, the option of taking a significantly longer, paid mat leave should be available. having to go back to work at 6 - 8 weeks (which is when most moms are just finally starting to feel comfortable with nursing) can be completely detrimental to a breastfeeding relationship, ESPECIALLY if there have been any hurdles to overcome.

    i think there are many steps, small & large, that could be taken to improve the system. it's a big job, but just because it's big doesn't mean we shouldn't try, shouldn't start taking the small steps we're able to & making improvements as we're able & getting there bit by bit.
     
    6 people like this.
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