Autism & Vaccines?

Hi all,

Was wondering if you saw today's episode on Oprah?

It makes me wonder if what they say is right. Could the vaccines be causing autism? Most mothers believe so, but the medical profession refuses to acknowlege these claims.

Have you kept up to date with all your children's vaccines? Did you stagger them? If so, how did you do it?
Also, are their any of you mom's on here who have a child with autism? Do you agree that the vaccines caused it?

Would like to hear your comments on this topic.

 

Here is a discussion on this topic that was done in the 1-5 year forum a few weeks ago. I thought there were many interesting views.

 

I didn't see Oprah, but all 5 of my kids have been vaccinated on the peds schedule with no adverse effects.

 

None of my kids have been vaccinated for this and many other reasons. If you want more information you can PM, I dont want to start a debate. Also, Angie7 has some great (imo) information about vaccinations.

 

I did not see Oprah. In fact, other than an occasional I Love Lucy dvd, I don't have time to watch much TV. But, I have been concerned about immunizations. I have chosen to slow the process down. I'm the mom and a Dr can't force me to do something I don't want to do. The fact that my boys were born over 6 wks early made me rethink giving them the vaccines so early. They had a hard enough start to life. They both reacted to one shot already and still have a lump where they received it 2 months ago. Eventually they will get most of them, but MUCH slower than the ped wants. I haven't quite figured out which ones to give them next. But at least I have time to decide.

 

That show scared me today! Mine are scheduled to get that MMR shot and now I am scared to have them get it.

I love Jenny McCarthy, btw!

What are you guys thinking about that vaccine in particular? The unfortunate part, if they do not have all of their vaccinations they cannot go to school, play sports, and even colleges ask for the vaccine records. So, it is like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. It is just scary that nobody know for sure and 1 out of 150 kids get it now...scary!



jen

 

QUOTE(veggiehead @ Sep 18 2007, 04:56 PM) [snapback]413697[/snapback]
That show scared me today! Mine are scheduled to get that MMR shot and now I am scared to have them get it.

I love Jenny McCarthy, btw!

What are you guys thinking about that vaccine in particular? The unfortunate part, if they do not have all of their vaccinations they cannot go to school, play sports, and even colleges ask for the vaccine records. So, it is like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. It is just scary that nobody know for sure and 1 out of 150 kids get it now...scary!
jen



That is not true. Every state has an exemption form. Its all in the wording... It is not a requirement in ANY state, for anything!

 

QUOTE(HeyThere @ Sep 19 2007, 12:01 AM) [snapback]413707[/snapback]
That is not true. Every state has an exemption form. Its all in the wording... It is not a requirement in ANY state, for anything!



Wow! That is great to know. Are you ever afraid they will contract mumps, measles, rubella? I would love to know about the research you have done. This show really sent chills down my spine today about the vaccines.

 

Jenny said she herself is not against vaccines, just the "one size fits all" schedule and amount given to our children. I tend to agree with her. She also said one thing I really believe, Doctors should listen to the mothers in this country! There is something going on and mothers know their children. I am not against vax (as I said in the linked-to thread) but I have chosen to change the time in which they are given. My oldest son had all his vax on schedule and is wonderfully healthy, no reactions ever thank God. However, my twins are developmentally delayed, and could have autism we don't know yet. I do not believe any vaccine they have gotten contributed to this delay. They have not had the MMR vax and will likely get it at their 18 month appointment if they are healthy. It will not be given in combination with any other vaccine to minimize reactions.

I have racked my brain about this debate, especially since my family is going through developmental delays and possible autism. It seems so obvious to many that vaccines could be ONE factor is the development of autism is some children. Maybe it is a predisposition triggered by a foreign substance introduced into the body. It absolutely has to be something else as well though. Why would the diagnosis of autism increase from 1 in 3000 in 1998 to 1 in 150 (or less) nine years later? We are giving the same (mostly) vaccines now as we were then. I do not deny some people have noticed a dramatic, impossible to deny change in their children after a certain vaccine was given. It was not the case with my sons. They were developing 'normally' and slowly began to withdraw, lose some skills and stopped babbling as much. This happened over a period of months and at no point could I put my finger on what could be causing it. One twin seems to be coming out of it, believe it or not. He has, just as gradually as he lost himself, begun to make eye contact again, smile, babble and understand and respond to his name. The other twin is just now responding to his name, but has a long way to go. It would have to be partially genetic and partially environmental to make any sense. We may never know what is causing our children to be affected by this disease, though I pray we find some answers soon. At the rate it is going, all children will be born on the spectrum in less than 10 years. Autism will be the norm. It can't be JUST vaccines doing all this damage, can it?

I did not mean to ramble, but this issue is so close to my head and heart right now. None of us should have to fear so much for our children.

Kelly

 

QUOTE(KellyJ @ Sep 19 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]413751[/snapback]
It would have to be partially genetic and partially environmental to make any sense.
Kelly


I totally agree! I think that about most diseases. My uncle is a neurosurgeon and he feels everything is genetic AND environmental. He obviously has great evidence to believe that...

Kelly, I wish you the very best with your family. Stay strong. We are here for you.


jen

 

QUOTE(KellyJ @ Sep 19 2007, 12:44 AM) [snapback]413751[/snapback]
I did not mean to ramble, but this issue is so close to my head and heart right now. None of us should have to fear so much for our children.

Kelly



Our family will say a prayer for you. I can't imagine what you are going through!!

We are going to to stagger our vaccines with the twins. With my daughter I came into her peds office with the mindset of staggering them and excluding some but he literally set down for over a half hour talking me into until I gave in. Then his nurse came in and did the same!!! The guilt trips they lay on you are crazy. When I left I was sure that I was a horrible mom either way and was so upset about it. After more research on my part (Dr Sears website has great vaccine info on what diseases are actual threats and which ones aren't) I grew more and more angry and of course switched dr's. Thank God my daughter had no reactions!!! But the vaccine that makes the most angry is the hep b which they give newborns. Look up who is actually at risk for hep b. You will be surprised!!!
Sandy

 

I thought this was interesting info that gives both schools of thoughts:

http://www.parenting.com/parenting/baby/ar...tml?topic=12004

 

My oldest is being tested for Asperger's (hopefully we get in this year.) He was on a staggered and selective vaccination schedule (twins are on the standard schedule.) Who knows where this came from, I've been looking for possible links and can find nothing!! That's just an awful feeling. I wonder about all the mental illness, ADHD, and spectrum illnesses and looking at where a possible links can be. The illnesses (and not vax related!) are running rampant, in my life I have never heard of so many mental defects.. there has to be a connection some where.

 

We stayed on schedule up to the 12 month mark. However, if I had known then what I know now, I would have staggered and delayed the vaccinations on a much different schedule. Starting at 12 months, we stopped all vaccinations including the MMR. We will move forward with the delayed vaccinations at 3 years of age and will be giving the MMR in three separate doses versus all at once.

 

I am delaying all vaccinations until my girls are three. When I start giving vaccinations they will be divided up and given at different times. I do not and can not think that giving a baby/toddler 4-5 shots in a sitting is healthy.

 

All of my children have been given vaccines on a more staggered schedule. My oldest had MMR (unstaggered) and so will my babies. The odd thing is that MMR has been given for a long time now and just recently the controversy started. A friend of mine, who works in the healthcare field, told me that she researched the subject extensively and didn't find any evidence of a link between MMR and autism. HOWEVER, since a big component of her job was working with moms, and many moms had autistic children, she said she couldn't deny their stories. So, with her own children, she staggered MMR. BTW, she has 3 boys (including a set of b/b twins). She told me that if she'd had girls, she probably wouldn't have staggered MMR (she didn't know of any moms of daughters who suspected MMR-related autism).

I really hate this topic because there is no black and white answer and no matter which way you decide to proceed, the way is frought with worry and guilt.

 

Wow. I did not see Oprah, but am aware of the debate. We've stayed "on schedule" with our boys' vaccinations. I asked our pediatrician about the link w/ autism at the boys' 2 month appointment and he told us the debate started a few years ago and was based on one study that has since been de-bunked. It made me feel better, but hesitant nonetheless. It's hard to know what to do sometimes!

 

I never stay on the schedule because I stagger the shots. No more then one at a time and then three weeks until the next. We have delayed the MMR until they are 2 years old. I have done so much reading on the MMR and the bottom line for me is that autism should show up, or at least signs of it, by the age 2 if it is there. For that reason I will wait until they are 2 and then give MMR. I have called over 20 ped offices and no one will break it up into three different shots for us. It is so frustrating to live in the country sometimes. We went in today for our 15 month apt. and I had to sign papers that I was denying the MMR and the chicken pocks vaccine for my twins.They said the gov. was making them fill out the forms on their patients. Whatever! Why do they need to know when I choose to vaccinate my kids?

 

You may want to look at this thread, Interesting articles on how genetic predisposition plays a crucial role in laying the neurological foundations of autism, in the Health Issues/Special Needs forum.

 

QUOTE(2gherkins @ Sep 19 2007, 07:35 AM) [snapback]414078[/snapback]
You may want to look at this thread, Interesting articles on how genetic predisposition plays a crucial role in laying the neurological foundations of autism, in the Health Issues/Special Needs forum.



Very interesting. And, that would have to be true because if it was from the vaccines only, every child would have it. You just never know. As the pp said, there is no black and white, which makes any parent afraid. I think delaying the MMR shot until they are two makes me feel more comfortable. That is probably what I will do, especially since I have a boy. Does anyone know why boys (the gene) that makes them more susceptible?

 

I have always gotten my son/babies his/their shots. I don't believe the hype.......everything is bad for you at one time or another.....If that were true all children that had vaccines would have autism..

Let me clarify...there are always all of these studies that debunk or agree with other studies.....

 

QUOTE(veggiehead @ Sep 18 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]413797[/snapback]
I thought this was interesting info that gives both schools of thoughts:

http://www.parenting.com/parenting/baby/ar...tml?topic=12004

thanks, veggiehead, for posting the article - very interesting to hear different perspectives.

QUOTE(2gherkins @ Sep 19 2007, 03:35 AM) [snapback]414078[/snapback]
You may want to look at this thread, Interesting articles on how genetic predisposition plays a crucial role in laying the neurological foundations of autism, in the Health Issues/Special Needs forum.


and thanks, 2 gherkins, for posting this - i tend to believe autism must have some basis other than vaccines (b/c, hey, everyone i know was fully vaccinated and no one has any probs) that have been around so long, and the genetic link makes so much more sense to me. Interesting . . .

 

I understand both sides of this issue, as a healthcare professional and a mother. However, the thought that keeps coming into my head is that kids have been vaccinated for so many years, and just recently has autism become so prevalent in the community. Why is that? There has to be something else influencing this occurence, whether it is genetics or environmental factors. Personally the thought of my kids getting any of the illnesses we vaccinate against scares me, and I feel the risk is too great to chance. The outcomes of theses diseases is awful, and that is why we vaccinate against them. There are many wants to stagger the vaccines, and whatever works for each of us is what is right.

 

QUOTE(crazeek8 @ Sep 19 2007, 09:46 AM) [snapback]414349[/snapback]
I understand both sides of this issue, as a healthcare professional and a mother. However, the thought that keeps coming into my head is that kids have been vaccinated for so many years, and just recently has autism become so prevalent in the community. Why is that? There has to be something else influencing this occurence, whether it is genetics or environmental factors. Personally the thought of my kids getting any of the illnesses we vaccinate against scares me, and I feel the risk is too great to chance. The outcomes of theses diseases is awful, and that is why we vaccinate against them. There are many wants to stagger the vaccines, and whatever works for each of us is what is right.


Well, it isn't that suddenly Autism is on the rise exactly. It has more to do with the fact that more children are diagnosed as being somewhere on the spectrum, where 10 years ago, they would have been diagnosed with something else or not at all. It recently became an important topic because of the study on vaccinations and the controversey surrounding it, as well as the president of NBC's grandson (?) being diagnosed.

The possibility of environmental factors or genetics being the cause is a lot greater than the vaccination theory. There's too much evidence that points to other possibilities.

 

QUOTE(4lilmonkeys @ Sep 19 2007, 11:35 AM) [snapback]414430[/snapback]
Well, it isn't that suddenly Autism is on the rise exactly. It has more to do with the fact that more children are diagnosed as being somewhere on the spectrum, where 10 years ago, they would have been diagnosed with something else or not at all.


You took the words right out of my mouth, um I mean typed the words right off my computer screen. Oh you know what I mean! The prevelance of these diagnoses has increased in recent years because the diagnostic criteria is more defined.

Oh and to go back to the original posters topic, I didn't see the Oprah program, but we have vaccinated on schedule. However they didn't get their first set of shots until they were 2 1/2 months old because they were too little to get the HepB vaccine in the hospital.

-Leighann

 

seems to me a study on identical twins, one with autism and one without, would be a way to find out what the genetic predisposition is, don't you think? i have to admit that i'm pretty ignorant to alot of the facts and research on autism, but, don't boys seem to be diagnosed in much higher numbers than girls??? I really wish I could have seen the entire show.

 

What is your take on this whole vaccination thing with kids. We all got vaccines as kids and many parents do get them and their is this whole big controversy about them now causing problems. There is always a risk with everything and you never know if you will have a side effect to a medicaiton, a surgery or a vaccination. I know the MMR shot is pretty hefty on babies and the peditrician I chose actually seperates them out so it isn't that bad. Everyone keeps telling me horrible things about shots and I am torn. We plan on traveling to India when they are 6 months old and although it is not required they have vaccines, I feel that they should have something since their immune systems will still be weak.



Dogs and Cats have this vaccine controversy too. But as a certified vet tech for 10 years, I have seen animals have reactions but maybe that was only 1 out of thousands we did each year. I still get my cats vaccinated every year. They are completely indoors so I only get what is necessary unless I know I will board them then I have to get them all.



What is your opinion?

 

My opinion, based on my own personal experience with a child on the autism spectrum is that autism is not "caused" by anything in a vaccine.

I truly believe that my son is just "wired" differently than my other children. Now, could there be some environmental factors that play into his autism? Sure... maybe there's something about it that a child in inherently born with that reacts a certain way to something in a vaccine... or maybe it's something in his diet. I don't know and to me I know that the pros outweight the cons. I don't regret vaxing my kids on schedule. I also definitely see the benefit to delayed vaxing. But honestly, there are kids with autism who haven't been vaxed either so I just don't see a 100% direct correlation.

Just like some people are "wired" to be bipolar or maybe have mental illness, my son was "wired" to be on the autism spectrum. Instead of focusing on how this happened, I choose to focus on how we can help him have the most normal life possible.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

My OPINION - I believe that the vaccines trigger something in a genetically susceptible nervous system that can cause severe neurological reactions. I believe that I should not inject things like formaldehyde into my baby's immature nervous system. I believe that part of why they can't find "the link" is because they do not test the cumulative, exponential effect of the toxins on the body. Also, I believe it's because the vaccines only cause severe problems in a small proportion of the population. However, what if YOUR dc is one of those???

My STORY - we vaxed ds1, dd1, dd2 completely through kindergarten. We vaxed dd3 & ds 2 through 9 mos. Dd4 and the twins have had no vaccinations. Ds1, dd1 & dd3 are all autistic (Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism). Dd2 has ADHD.

All the others show no sign of any disorder. For US, for OUR FAMILY - the vaccines are unsafe.

 

I personally feel that vaccines have their place but they are over used. I feel that a baby/small toddler should never be injected with the kind of toxins and poisons that are used to make vaccines. A child's brain is still developing until the age of two, I think we're playing with fire when we inject a growing and developing child with toxic chemicals. I can not see a good enough reason to take the chance in hurting a growing baby. My goodness they are now giving vaccines hours after a child is born! To me that is ridiculous and is asking for problems. JMO

 

We don't vaccinate the girls, and don't plan on it.

 

QUOTE(COMamabear @ Sep 20 2007, 05:53 AM) [snapback]415654[/snapback]
I believe that part of why they can't find "the link" is because they do not test the cumulative, exponential effect of the toxins on the body.

UC Davis researchers are examining genetic and environmental factors that may affect the development of autism, mental retardation and developmental delay in children. Autism's environmental factors focus of children's center study:QUOTE
"It's clear that genes play a role in autism and developmental delay, but evidence suggests that the environment is also an important factor," said Irva Hertz-Picciotto, professor of epidemiology and preventive medicine at UC Davis and the leader of the study.
....
Exposure to a broad array of external factors and measurements of important physiologic factors will be compared among the three groups. These factors include environmental exposures from chemicals used in industrial processes, consumer products, illnesses of the mother during pregnancy and of the child after birth, medications and vaccinations, and diet. Researchers will also conduct studies on lipids, specific genes, key molecules involved in the working of the immune and nervous systems, and cell-to-cell communication and metabolism.

 

QUOTE(MSB1203 @ Sep 19 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]415540[/snapback]
seems to me a study on identical twins, one with autism and one without, would be a way to find out what the genetic predisposition is, don't you think?

In all the literature I've read on this, it looks that if one identical twin has autism, there is a 60-90% chance the other twin will have it. The reason it's not 100% is because environmental factors do play a role: Nature and nurture, but not vaccines

We understand that since identical twins are not always concordant for autism, there must be non-genetic factors that are important as well. But, in identical twins, the specific genes involved are always exactly the same. So, identical environmental factors (like a vaccine - same type, same concentration, same lot, same time) should have the same effect on the ID twins, but we don't see that. Other environmental factors are more likely to be the agents that "trip" the system -- infectious agents, pesticides, chemicals, food additives, lead and other heavy metals, plasticizers, exhaust fumes, etc. Identical twins are less likely to be exposed to exactly the same amounts of these things (even in utero, depending on their position and cord flow in the womb), so the non-concordance rates for autism make more sense. Check out this link for all the environmental "crud" out there: Chemical Kids — Environmental Toxins and Child Development.

 

My babies are getting all their vaccines on schedule. I am a scientific-minded person, and there are enough studies out there debunking all the paranoia about vaccines and autism to convince me.

I'd be far more frightened of my kids getting sick with the diseases we vaccinate against and suffering long-term damage or even dying. Especially now that more parents are choosing not to vax - the non-vaxed population provides a perfect way for these horrible diseases to get their foot back in the door. I have to vax my kids because other parents don't vax theirs.

 

I vaxed my kids and in fact they get their last set of 4 shots now until kindergarten - which I think is great...they got the majority of their shots when they won't remember them...I didn't stagger and I didn't wait until they were older...they've (fortunately) no reactions and no signs of autism - and I have autism in my family...I'd rather deal with a special needs child than deal with a disease that I could have prevented...