Autism/Vaccine spinoff - why all the bad allergies now?

So we've talked the Autism/Vaccine issue to death, but what about allergies? When we were kids, you could still take peanut butter sandwiches to school, and our moms fed us solids of all kinds way earlier than six months....and yet I don't remember allergies being such an issue. Sure some kids were allergic to things, but not as many as it seems today and not to the severity that allergies are today.

Any theories about what's going on there? What have we done to cause allergies to explode like they have? And what can we do to stop it?

 

i've actually heard that by trying to live in a super anti-bacterial environment(soaps, hand sanitizers, etc.), we don't give our immune systems a chance to develop right. i actually heard i think on the today show yesterday, that people who grow up with dogs are exposed to more bacteria etc. from their hair, and slobber and all, but it actually helps them develop healthy immunities and body responses to germs and makes them healthier in the long run vs. people without dogs.
don't know how much there is to that, but just thought i'd throw that out!

 

Vaccine related, IMO....

 

QUOTE
i've actually heard that by trying to live in a super anti-bacterial environment(soaps, hand sanitizers, etc.), we don't give our immune systems a chance to develop right.


I've heard the "hygeine hypothesis" too. Basically, the theory is that everything is so clean now that we aren't exposed to enough nasties early on, so the immune system may overreact to, say, peanuts or gluten, because it basically has no sense of proportion.

 

I have heard the same thing. I believe it too--I swear my boys are so healthy because of the french fries they used to grab off the floor at McDonalds before I noticed For what it is worth, of all my friends, and my group probably numbers between 30-40 kids, all have been vaxed on schedule and only two have a food allergy--one is allergic to milk, he was BF, and the allergy appeared when he was an infant, and the other is allergic to raw apples, and that is a recent allergy and he is 4. I think it has more to do with all the anti-bacterial junk than anything else.

 

The really aren't that many more vax now than when we were little so I find it hard to swallow that vax are causing allergies....

The hygiene hypothesis seems to fit the data IMHO. THe incidence of asthma and allergies is significantly lower in kids who grow up on farms(to a huge extent) and with pets (to a smaller extent) due to the exposure. It fits with all the people I know who have severe allergies and asthma too. So some small anecdotal evidence and some large studies it feels convincing to me!

 

Actually the vaxes that are given today have more then tripled since 1983 and even fewer before then. Here is a link to an ad in USA today showing the number of vaccines have increased from 10 in 1983 to 36 in 2007. It is from newborn to 6 years old.

 

I find this discussion quite interesting. We have a dog and do not use antibacterial soap in the house. My oldest 2 sons have been vaccinated, with the exception of one vaccine. But my oldest son has A LOT of allergies, no food allergies only seasonal and environmental. He is VERY allergic to cats, and mildly allergic to dogs. We are hoping he will grow out of the wheezing and need for all the breathing meds. He has horrible eczema. He's on 9 different meds. But his father has developed allergies since moving into our area.

I tend to think that many allergies are inherited, maybe, a genetic predisposition of sensitivity to certain allergins. But, in my opinion, some must be enviromentally related. I wouldn't be surprised if vaccines could cause some of these reactions. Would make a great study!!!

 

I've seen the ads out on the vaccines too...and they do list 36 of them...compared to like 12 I think?.. but 10 of them are totally avoidable flu/rotavirus ones... Most of them are mercury free now as far as I could tell from a source at the fda.... which makes them somewhat "healthier" than they were before. I don't know, I think it's easy to blame vaccinations...but it hasn't yet been linked scientifically. In really cause and effect cases you should see that link pretty clearly. My personal take on it is that in every generation you have some risk...take the risk of the polio shot when it was the live virus... well, some people got polio... not good, so they changed it.. well, a generation prior to that vaccine people got polio b/c there was no vaccine... and clearly that's really bad too... Science isn't perfect...it doest get refined and hopefully made better. But we can't expect to live in an insulated risk free world. Yes, allergy rates seem to be going up.... cancer rates too... but the treatment for these things have also improved. 150 years ago there wasn't much they could do for any kind of cancer...you just lived with it or died.... So I guess these risks are all kind of relative. I do know that it certainly can't hurt to try to go natural with a diet if that's what you suspect is causing allergies. And as far as hygene...one thing that people forget is that any kind of soap...even the old fashioned lye soap made on the farms way back when...are "antibacterial"... soaps are basic in ph... that will kill some bacteria... so if keeping clean in the most rudimentary manner...soap and water...is what causes allergies then we would have noticed this spike back when basic hygene came into vogue. Obviously the antibiotics being dished out for any minor cold is a different story...

 

QUOTE(kma13 @ Sep 27 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]426014[/snapback]
The really aren't that many more vax now than when we were little so I find it hard to swallow that vax are causing allergies....

The hygiene hypothesis seems to fit the data IMHO. THe incidence of asthma and allergies is significantly lower in kids who grow up on farms(to a huge extent) and with pets (to a smaller extent) due to the exposure. It fits with all the people I know who have severe allergies and asthma too. So some small anecdotal evidence and some large studies it feels convincing to me!


yes, but there is a genetic cross over here.... for instance... we didn't grow up with house pets...why??? b/c my mother is allergic... so genetically I was predisposed to be allergic to cats.... and yes, I'm allergic to cats...not as severely as she is, but at least to the extent where I can't have them in my house. the studies on this would have to rule out the reason why those households did not have pets....were the parents allergic??.. just a little food for thought!

 

QUOTE(Susanna+3 @ Sep 28 2007, 11:28 AM) [snapback]427901[/snapback]
I've seen the ads out on the vaccines too...and they do list 36 of them...compared to like 12 I think?.. but 10 of them are totally avoidable flu/rotavirus ones... Most of them are mercury free now as far as I could tell from a source at the fda.... which makes them somewhat "healthier" than they were before. I don't know, I think it's easy to blame vaccinations...but it hasn't yet been linked scientifically. In really cause and effect cases you should see that link pretty clearly. My personal take on it is that in every generation you have some risk...take the risk of the polio shot when it was the live virus... well, some people got polio... not good, so they changed it.. well, a generation prior to that vaccine people got polio b/c there was no vaccine... and clearly that's really bad too... Science isn't perfect...it doest get refined and hopefully made better. But we can't expect to live in an insulated risk free world. Yes, allergy rates seem to be going up.... cancer rates too... but the treatment for these things have also improved. 150 years ago there wasn't much they could do for any kind of cancer...you just lived with it or died.... So I guess these risks are all kind of relative. I do know that it certainly can't hurt to try to go natural with a diet if that's what you suspect is causing allergies. And as far as hygene...one thing that people forget is that any kind of soap...even the old fashioned lye soap made on the farms way back when...are "antibacterial"... soaps are basic in ph... that will kill some bacteria... so if keeping clean in the most rudimentary manner...soap and water...is what causes allergies then we would have noticed this spike back when basic hygene came into vogue. Obviously the antibiotics being dished out for any minor cold is a different story...



QUOTE(Susanna+3 @ Sep 28 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]427904[/snapback]
yes, but there is a genetic cross over here.... for instance... we didn't grow up with house pets...why??? b/c my mother is allergic... so genetically I was predisposed to be allergic to cats.... and yes, I'm allergic to cats...not as severely as she is, but at least to the extent where I can't have them in my house. the studies on this would have to rule out the reason why those households did not have pets....were the parents allergic??.. just a little food for thought!


Susanna, very good points.

 

I make soap (real old fashioned lye soap) and it is antibacterial for all intents and purposes. Soap, of any kind, will kill certain bacteria.

My personal pet theory is that allergies are genetic and pollution based. I think the pollution not only irritates people directly, but it's affecting the environment in other ways which in turn affects us. It's purely my opinion since I've never seen this theory put forth anywhere.

 

QUOTE(NINI H @ Sep 27 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]426155[/snapback]
I tend to think that many allergies are inherited, maybe, a genetic predisposition of sensitivity to certain allergins. But, in my opinion, some must be enviromentally related.



I tend to agree. I think it is probably a combination of things, environmental, genetics, pollution, etc.

 

QUOTE(Her Royal Jennyness @ Sep 28 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]427923[/snapback]
My personal pet theory is that allergies are genetic and pollution based. I think the pollution not only irritates people directly, but it's affecting the environment in other ways which in turn affects us. It's purely my opinion since I've never seen this theory put forth anywhere.


Jenny, I think that makes sense. I think we are exposed to so many things that we weren't years ago, hormones in our foods, chemicals we clean our house with etc and think it may trigger those who are genetically predisposed to such things as allergies. I also think everything is evolving, our bodies, our knowledge and the germs/viruses we fight too.

My dh had asthma growing up but outgrew it. His cousin still has it as does several of his other relatives. We have 1 child who was dx with asthma but it is very mild. If he has 1 attack a year that is alot and I am sure he will outgrow it as it lessens every year. I agree with the genetics piece.

 

I vote for the chemical theory. We are exposed to so much more now (pesticides, pollution, preservatives) than our parents & grandparents were that it is only logical that we are going to pay the price for that. It also could explain the increase in cancer rates.

 

You may want to take a look at this thread, in the Health Issues forum: Body Burden — The Pollution in Newborns. I think environmental chemicals play a big part in our overall health (or lack thereof).

 

I think it can be broken down into three basic headings.... (and I don't think it's related to vaccines at all)

Hyperconsumerism (lowest price wins, broad choice)
Extended Shelf Life (preservatives/chemicals)
Medicate First - (ask questions later?? maybe never)


Can you say Processed and Imported Food??? WHen we all were growing up we ate fruits and veggies that were in season (I never had corn except for in August) and it was purchased at a local farm stand. Ditto for tomatoes, etc. Now, we buy products that #1 are produced throughout the year and are shipped in from who knows where (where there are no controls over pesticides, etc.). Add to that that most moms feed their kids food that's been Pre-made, pre-packaged and pre-chewed and gee, I wonder why kids are more allergic now.

Cows milk is a BIG issue for many kids -- and most moms go ahead and give their babies 24-28ounces of the stuff a day after age 1 -- which is ludicrous... Now, back when I was a kids (the 70's) milk was delivered from local dairies and had a 5-7days' shelf life or so... and you could taste what the cows ate for that season (I used to hate summer milk cause the milk tasted different)

Now, milk is hyperpasturized, has growth hormones like estrogen in it (cause they want to get as much milk as possible out of those poor cows) . (is that why susie got her period at age 9????) the pasteurization process eliminates many of the enzymes that are needed in order to process the proteins in the milk. COws have 4 stomachs to digest cow's milk. we only have one.. Instead of finding out why a kid is refluxing --they should look at dairy protein, instead Dr's medicate -- supporting the pharmaceutical industry -- and once they are done iwth those meds, they go on allergy meds for therest of their lives...

Peanut allergies are very common in the US but not in other countries -- I have heard this is due to the fact of how we process peanuts vs other cultures.

Ahhh, sounds like a conspiracy..I don't believe that this was all planned by some evil group -- but globalization has definitely created some real challenges in our country. If you really look at cultures outside the US -- the EU for example where genetically engineered foods are banned -- they just don't have the same issues.

Keep in mind, if we went back to the OLD model -- we'd pay a lot more for food, etc. so my guess is life will continue down this path and for those in the world who can afford organics (the real organics, not Horizon, etc.) they will be healthier.

I'm all for capitalism, but our quest for the best price is driving us into a world where our health is being put at risk. We're hyper consumers -- and have created this world ourselves.

OK, I'll step off my soap box.

 

QUOTE
you could taste what the cows ate for that season (I used to hate summer milk cause the milk tasted different)


Wow, that's fascinating! I'd never thought of it, but makes perfect sense...

(Nothing to do with the allergy issue, just had to note how cool that is.)

 

Thats why eating organic is important. You get none of the growth hormones, preservatives, antibotics, etc. It is more expensive, but well worth it!!! That is why I think many young girls are starting their periods so early, its all the growth hormones in milk, meat, etc that they consume everyday. Plus many parents are lax on what their children are eating these days. They are fine with hamburger helper and frozen pizzas everyday.

 

Actually, it is likely that young girls are starting their periods earlier because they are fatter, and the more fat cells you have, the more you metabolize cholesterol into estrogen. Estrogen then induces earlier menarche......

 

QUOTE
Actually, it is likely that young girls are starting their periods earlier because they are fatter, and the more fat cells you have, the more you metabolize cholesterol into estrogen. Estrogen then induces earlier menarche......


A friend of mine is a nutritionist, and she told me exactly the same thing. She's seen obese 6 year old girls get their periods.

 

QUOTE
I think it can be broken down into three basic headings.... (and I don't think it's related to vaccines at all)

Hyperconsumerism (lowest price wins, broad choice)
Extended Shelf Life (preservatives/chemicals)
Medicate First - (ask questions later?? maybe never)


Can you say Processed and Imported Food??? WHen we all were growing up we ate fruits and veggies that were in season (I never had corn except for in August) and it was purchased at a local farm stand. Ditto for tomatoes, etc. Now, we buy products that #1 are produced throughout the year and are shipped in from who knows where (where there are no controls over pesticides, etc.). Add to that that most moms feed their kids food that's been Pre-made, pre-packaged and pre-chewed and gee, I wonder why kids are more allergic now.

Cows milk is a BIG issue for many kids -- and most moms go ahead and give their babies 24-28ounces of the stuff a day after age 1 -- which is ludicrous... Now, back when I was a kids (the 70's) milk was delivered from local dairies and had a 5-7days' shelf life or so... and you could taste what the cows ate for that season (I used to hate summer milk cause the milk tasted different)

Now, milk is hyperpasturized, has growth hormones like estrogen in it (cause they want to get as much milk as possible out of those poor cows) . (is that why susie got her period at age 9????) the pasteurization process eliminates many of the enzymes that are needed in order to process the proteins in the milk. COws have 4 stomachs to digest cow's milk. we only have one.. Instead of finding out why a kid is refluxing --they should look at dairy protein, instead Dr's medicate -- supporting the pharmaceutical industry -- and once they are done iwth those meds, they go on allergy meds for therest of their lives...

Peanut allergies are very common in the US but not in other countries -- I have heard this is due to the fact of how we process peanuts vs other cultures.

Ahhh, sounds like a conspiracy..I don't believe that this was all planned by some evil group -- but globalization has definitely created some real challenges in our country. If you really look at cultures outside the US -- the EU for example where genetically engineered foods are banned -- they just don't have the same issues.

Keep in mind, if we went back to the OLD model -- we'd pay a lot more for food, etc. so my guess is life will continue down this path and for those in the world who can afford organics (the real organics, not Horizon, etc.) they will be healthier.

I'm all for capitalism, but our quest for the best price is driving us into a world where our health is being put at risk. We're hyper consumers -- and have created this world ourselves.

OK, I'll step off my soap box.

What a great post! I couldn't agree with you more. I had a very hard time giving my girls cow's milk, they've had nothing but problems with it. I figured in the end they were probably healthier not drinking it.

 

QUOTE(angie7 @ Sep 30 2007, 12:55 AM) [snapback]429237[/snapback]
Thats why eating organic is important. You get none of the growth hormones, preservatives, antibotics, etc. It is more expensive, but well worth it!!! That is why I think many young girls are starting their periods so early, its all the growth hormones in milk, meat, etc that they consume everyday. Plus many parents are lax on what their children are eating these days. They are fine with hamburger helper and frozen pizzas everyday.

I have said this millions of times here and elsewhere.... But I have a deep understanding of organic farming and all aspects of agriculture, I am certified agriculture and biology teacher, I was an animal science major at arguably the best ag university in the world.

1) MILK HAS NO ANTIBIOTICS OR HORMONES IN IT, it is illegal. rBST milk is chemically indistinguishable from non rBST milk. No estrogen or other hormone is added to milk (would it even make sense biologically? doesn't estrogen suppress milk production? see hormone interference with milk production , in humans but still the mechanism is the same)

2) organic farming does not mean NO PESTICIDES it means no synthetic pesticides... there is a difference.

3) no hormone meat is an important switch, hormone structure can be incorporated into muscle tissue

4) Cow hormones are not bio-identical to human hormones...

I grew up drinking cow's milk (LOTS AND LOTS) my mother grew up on a dairy farm and she practically hooked my up to a Milk IV (lol), I have no allergies (except latex but that is exposure related) and I was the last girl in my high school class to get her period at 14.... Normally I hate anecdotal evidence like that but people seem to relate to it better.