In need of support/suggestions

Hello. Long time lurker...first time poster. I'm really to quit breatfeeding because I feel like a failure, but just the thought has me bawling my eyes out because I don't want to give up.....this is so much harder than I ever thought it would be.

My 5 week old twin girls were born at 38 weeks at a healthy 7 pounds 1 ounce and 6 pounds 6 ounces. Unfortunatly, last Wed we the pediatrician visit indicated twin B was only up to 7 pounds 3 ounces and weighed in at the fifth percentile for age. (Twin A increased to 8 pounds 6 ounces and jumped from 10-25%)

For starters, I feel awful....and the fact twin B isn't thriving alone has had me in tears since last week. I feel like such a failure for not meeting her needs and being a "good mother" which I know sounds unrealistic, but I feel if I can't breastfeed, I'm not doing my job as a mother. (Yes, I recognize there is a depression issue creeping in because I've also questioned my ability to be a mother and that the girls deserve someone better...still waiting for the doc to call back - I'm so tired of crying - are there anti depressants that I can take while breastfeeding??)

The Pediatrician has us supplementing an ounce of formula....if they want it....after each feeding until next wek. Right now, they seem to feed non stop, nursing for 45-90 min and then falling asleep. When they are awake to drink the bottle, they guzzle it down. By giving them formula, aren't I just sabatozing efforts to increase supply to meet their needs from breastmilk? I started with the feungreek and mother's milk herbal tea, but they're still showing signs of being hungry all the time. The pediatrian pointed out their adjusted age puts them at a point to expect a growth spurt, but per her instructions, I wasn't pumping prior to now and don't have reserves to meet this need while my supply grows.

I feel overwhelmed with the thought of How do I increase supply by having them nurse, pump for stimulation, supplement with formula...and of course, all of this with only a few hours of sleep each day and juggling my feelings of being a failure. I reached out to my LLL leader and three days later, still no reply. The hospital lactation nurse made me feel stupid by saying clearly twin B needs more to eat, and to supplement, and to stimulate for more production (duh - already doing this)...but wouldn't let me ask how much formula to give her since the one ounce isn't enough and when I try offering more, she spits it up in large gushes. (She got me so upset I ended up hanging up on her because she started to sound condensending....and I was crying to the point she wouldn't have understood what I was asking anyway.) I obviously want to do the best for both girls...which was the plan for breatfeeding and why I've endured hours upon hours of the girls being latched on for stimulation while breaking down and giving them formula, but I feel devistated this isn't working like I hoped.

To top things off, the pump I was using died and hubby won't be home with the new one until tonight...so I don't have any evidence if the herbs are working other than the sensation the breats need to be emptied. Unfortunatly, it doesn't seem like the girls are doing this.

I'm sorry for the ramble, basically, my emotions are pouring out in words. I have very limited support. Both grandmothers and hubby want me to give formula. I really want breastfeeding to work...but what more can I do?

Thank you all for any suggestions/support in advance.

 

Many, many :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: !!! Start here: Breathe.

You are doing all of the right things. You are an excellent mother-in-the-making but there is a transition no one tells you about. Breastfeeding twins is one of the hardest mental and physical feats a human can undertake. Breathe again. Know that everything you're going through right now is completely normal and most of us who have gone on to nurse for a long, long time had early weeks that sound just like yours.

1. Tonight will be soon enough for the pump. Don't think twice about that.

2. There are anti-depressants you can take while nursing, and good for you for asking about them. There are others here who can give you more specific advice about what they took and how it worked.

3. Hospital lactation consultants are notoriously unhelpful. Some are good, but many aren't. If you have the resources (ie. time, money, maybe someone else to make the call), find an independent LC. They are out there and they're awesome - I would not have made it past 6 weeks without the support of a really lovely woman who just made me feel better about how everything was going. You want someone at this point to come and look at the little one's latch, your positioning, and maybe check how much she's taking in.

4. You are absolutely right that giving a supplement will not help you build supply. Pumping will. Nursing will. Resting, eating and drinking well will, as will finding something you can do each day JUST FOR YOU. Read a little, take a warm bath, get a massage or a pedicure, have someone bring you a treat.

5. There is no way I know of to make this stage not exhausting. It just is, especially if you have little ones who like to nurse for 45 to 90 minutes (mine did, too). One thing to do, either now with formula or later when you're in a pumping groove, is to have someone else take care of one feeding each day (or night!). You can pump to make up for the missed feeding, or you can substitute formula knowing that you will have to work later to build up the supply for that feeding. Either way, knowing that they are full and getting the physical break from sitting to feed babies can be really refreshing for you. The LC recommended this and it was probably the single best thing she taught me.

6. Here are a bunch of questions: How many wet and poopy diapers are they having a day? Are they both having the same amount? Are they fraternal? Do you have any concerns about their latch? Are you tandem nursing or nursing one at a time?

Come back here often, or PM me if you're shy We all want you to succeed and I'm betting you will.

 

:hug:

I second Zabeta and her advice.

I just wanted to mention a couple things, maybe focusing on these positive things will help:

Both babies are above their birth weight, that's great!
You feel like your boobs need to be emptied - yeah! You are making lots of milk!
Eating and sleeping and pooping - that's all my girls seemed to do for the first few months - so, that's what is going on, good.

Also, remember that babies will basically drink out of a bottle even if they aren't hungry, so giving them an ounce afterwards and them eating it isn't really telling us anything. If they don't drink it, they will cough and choke, so they swallow. I don't want you to disregard what your ped says, but just remember this. And you are right, it won't help build your supply if you give them formula.

It is SO hard at the beginning - try your best to get some rest and time for you (I know, hard) and if you are feeling depressed, please talk to your doc, there is no reason to not - you can take meds while breastfeeding.

And come back and vent, ask questions, whatever anytime. That's what we are here for. And lastly, don't feel like a failure - you are taking care of your kiddos and that makes you a great mommy!

 

I just popped back in here - two things I wonder - do you ever switch breasts for the babies (BTW- LOVE their names)? I wonder if Rebecca's side has more hindmilk (fatty milk) and therefore, she is gaining weight quicker. Each breast can produce differently. When my girls were little, I switched breasts every feeding so they would get each breast an equal number of times.

Two - there will be times when they are not satisfied after 45 minutes, just to let you know. A ped friend of mine calls those "blockbuster" days - have your hubby go to blockbuster and rent you sappy movies, since you'll be breastfeeding and crying all day, you might as well have something to cry about! (PS - the crying for no good reason goes away soon, too).

Three - You are at a stage where you do WHATEVER it takes to get them to sleep - but don't let them CIO yet, they are too young. They need you to respond. (my feelings - take them with whatever grain of salt you'd like). Swings, bouncies, your chest, your boob. Whatever works.

You can do this!!!!!

 

Each girl gets a side each day.

Isabella is on the right side all day today. Tomorrow, Rebecca is on the right. I started trying to switch each side on each feeding but had trouble remembering who got what side next. A nurse suggested since Twin A was the First born (odd number) and Twin B was the Second born (even number)....odd days of the month are for Rebecca and even days of the month are for Isabella.

 

QUOTE(Zabeta @ Oct 20 2008, 11:17 AM) [snapback]1033727[/snapback]
Know that everything you're going through right now is completely normal and most of us who have gone on to nurse for a long, long time had early weeks that sound just like yours.


:hug: i just wanted to dito this! and add one thing - BFing doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. definitely keep pumping & nursing as long as your supplementing with formula but you are NOT a bad mother for supplementing - nor does it spell the beginning of the end. i had to supplement my girls for nearly 8 weeks but we're now exclusively breastfeeding. just try & pump whenever you supplement & you'll do fine! please do keep us up to date. :hug:

 

i wish my husband read TS so he could read your post. i totally understand what you're saying about feeling like a failure. i've been dealing with an insufficient supply and i've been unable to shake the idea that if i can't support them on BM then i'm not mothering them the way they need to be mothered. DH just keeps saying, "if you decided to quit and do all formula tomorrow, that would be fine." i can't make him understand why it's not fine for me.

good luck and keep coming back here for support and advice. it's been a life saver for me to have a place like this to turn to when i feel like i just can't figure it all out.

 

Your babies sound like they're getting lots of milk!! The milk dribbles, wet and dirty diapers, and good latches are all great, positive signs. Peeing on you has to be a good sign, too, doesn't it? I mean, God wouldn't be giving you things to sustain your sense of humor if she really wanted you to worry...

One of the hard things about breastfeeding (one of the many...) in the early days was that there is no real way to know whether babies are getting enough. Even weight gain is not an absolutely clear signal, as we have no control over how babies metabolize what they take in, ie. babies gain at different rates. That said, for most of us it is impossible not to try to 'fix' the problem of slow weight gain.

Just put it in perspective! One way to think of this is as s a temporary boost - once Isabella gets a little bigger and a little less sleepy, she'll perfect her nursing and you won't have to give her the extra push. Could she get by and be absolutely fine without it? Probably yes. But you'll feel better and your pediatrician will be more comfortable if you get her weight up sooner.

It sounds like you're pumping plenty for now - they really don't eat much at a feeding (believe it or not they'll soon be eating twice as much in a fourth of the time).

Finding an LC - it can be harder in some parts of the country than others, but try entering your zip code on this website. Or you could try calling a LLL rep from another nearby community to see if they know of any good LCs in the area. You can also see whether there are any "baby-friendly" hospitals in your area on this list. These are the hospitals that don't push formula and have a much stronger commitment to breastfeeding. I'm guessing that their LCs will be part of an informal local network of the 'good' ones.

Have you had a nap today?

 

wow, have I so BTDT :hug: My dd didn't get to BIRTH weight until 4 weeks!!!! But luckily I had a very supportive pedi who said NOT to quit bfing. You are not faulty, you are doing great :hug: Something that may help here is to get some test weights done on twin B to see how much she is taking in at a bfing session, maybe she is a lazy sucker and just needs to time to improve.
And while supplementing may make you feel bad, it is not evil!!! Just try to pump when you do offer a supplement, that will tell your body to make more.

But IMO it sounds like they are BOTH getting enough, and by offering the breast whenever they want you are doing what is best, that is the best thing for your supply and the best thing to guarentee they are getting enough.

 

wow - thank you all!!

I cannot tell you how much everyone's perspective, suggestions and opinions help. I have felt so "alone" in all of this with so many people in my life saying I needed to give them formula instead of nursing them. To find out Isabella was dropping in the weight percentile for her age came as such a unexpected devistating blow since I thought we were doing so well. Of course, the sleep deprevation on top of the disappointing news combined with what I suspect is some baby blues setting in, is not helping my sense of rationale. (Doc finally called - appt next week)

It is also great to hear that those who supplemented were later able to exclusivly BF. -thank you! This helps put some of my fears to rest. Speaking of rest...yes, I FINALLY got a nap between posts. I took the advise of PP and put them in the swings to sleep. I guess I was stuck in trying to be traditional and thinking they had to sleep in their bed. In any case, I'm definatly in a clearer state of mind for the moment. (Four hours sleep the day before yesterday and three hours last night.)

I am certainly going to save this link and refer to it over and over in the early morning hours....okay, maybe even now...for reassurance and encouragement - thank you all for being my cheerleaders!!!!!

 

Big big hugs to you! :hug:

Pps have given you awesome advice about nursing/supplementing. You CAN do this! You are doing it!

Since you asked about nursing and antidepressants - here is a great article. You definitely have options. :hug:

 

I don't really have anything else to add, as PPs said everything so well! This is the BEST resource for BFing twins. You've come to the right place!

WTG for wanting to BF your twins! I was TERRIFIED of BFing...I pumped and bottle-fed for the 1st 3 or 4 weeks and thought it was WAY easier. HECK NO! I'm so glad I stuck it out.

You CAN do it! You're already doing a great job!!! :clapping:

Big :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: to you!

 

First, congratulations on your new baby girls! I have a lot to say, so please excuse the rembling and take whatever you can from my comments.

Breastfeeding newborn twins had to be one of the most challening times in my life. My girls nursed for long periods of time, too. Then I would pump for supply. I was so sleep deprived (as you are), it's unbelieveable!
It is so common for newborn babies to fall asleep while nursing. I'm sure you're already trying everything (nursing the baby in just her diaper, rubbing bottom of the feet, cool washcloth on the head). Have you tried switching positions instead of always doing the football hold?

Just wondering if your ped. is using a breastfeeding growth chart or a formula growth chart. Also, the babies are two different people with different needs, weights, etc. I know it is discouraging to hear weight drop, but she will be ok!

Maybe you can ask your OB office for a LC # or post partum doula. Is there a new mother's group in your area? A breastfeeding group from the local hospital? Mother of Multiples? Those could relly help. Also, I think it's so important to have family support! I know family is just tryig to be helpful by suggesting formula, but it's not helpful.. It's discouraging! I think of would be great if you voiced your feelings (nicely! ). Same something like "I know you ae just trying to help, but I've made the decision to nurse the girls and would appreciate your support. Feel free to ask me how the nursing is going, but please don't coninue to ask me to give more formula. I'm doing my best for the girls. Thank you for respecting my decision.". I find that if I get the nerve to say things like that, people generally don't continue to badger you! Also, if you remind DH how much $ you'l be spending on formula for the a year, he might have a change of heart!

If you decide to try switching side each feed, you can just keep a small notepad next to your nursing statin that says the date, time and Twin A right side. Then you'll know Twin A need to go left for the next feeding.

If you want to know how much the baby is taiking, you can ask the LC at the hospital if you can bring her in for a weight check. Weigh her, nurse her and see how much she took in.

I want to suggest setting a goal for yourself. That's what I did in the beginning. I think I did something like 2 weeks, and then I would reevaluate how things were going. Then I would set a new goal. I ended up nursing over 2 years! YOU CAN DO IT!

Don't forget to drink heavily (water, that is!)

Last thing! No matter what, you gave your babies THE BEST START in their life! They are so lucky to have you!
Take care!

 

You can do it!! I had to supplement the first few weeks because both were jaundice and not gaining weight from my milk not coming in for like 10 days, and even when it did come in it wasn't very much. So I know what you are going through. But I did go see a LC every week, and that really helped get things correctly positioned, and often the week would start out good but by the end the latches were not so great again, so the weekly visit really helped.
I also decided at about 6wks in (due to lack of sleep), to do one formula feed/24hrs. Either DH (or a lady we hired to come in at night), would do that feeding, so that gave me an opportunity to get a chunk of sleep that ws 4-6hrs long (depending on when the babies fed). That was a lifesaver for me and I am really glad I did it. I never got much when I pumped so using EBM wasn't really an option, and honestly after doing so much pumping the first 6wks, I did not want to go anywhere near a pump again.
And, at around 5months when they were getting up less at night, I just phased out the formula and did all BF - so you can go back and forth, I have used formula for a few months, then quit using it, then went back to using it again.

You CAN do this! It is incredibly hard to bf twins, but all of us here have done it and you can too- try and ask for help from whoever you can, to come by and hold babies or look after them while you get some sleep. I think that was part of the reason my supply took so long to build up - stress and lack of sleep!

 

I went through the same thing! :hug: Forgive me if I repeat pp, I didn't have a chance to read them all.

The things that helped me was realizing, I'm not raising a chart, I'm raising people. My ped was just looking at the numbers on the scale and not at them. He kept telling me to supplement every other feeding, but to keep breastfeeding. I figured he's an idiot if he thinks anyone an keep a supply doing that! So i stopped all formula at 3 weeks and haven't looked back once. I've never really been able ot get the hang of pumping, but i figure if two babies (who will always get more out of me than a pump can) aren't building up my supply nothing will. My boys are growing out of their clothes, they went through 23 diapers between the two of them the day I counted, and when they're awake their eyes are bright.

I was reading something interesting about supplementing, well, my mom was reading it to me, the other day. If you do it after a feeding, kind of top them off as it were, what can end up happening is they baby will learn that the easier to get food is coming next, so he'll just kind of pay the toll as it were at the breast, then wait for the easy stuff to come. What was suggested was to give the supplement first. You'd have to use trial and error to figure out the proper amount, but it's better for your morale 'cause you'll see them getting full off of you and not the bottle.

Also she helped me find this: http://www.drjacknewman.com/ It was a huge help to me.

really though what it all came down to for me is what felt right. I heard a lot of diffrent things in the hospital, and everything that felt wrong turned out to be wrong. Same with my ped. ( who no longer is my ped.) babies thrive on breastmilk all the time. They did for centuries before formula. Stand your ground, you can do this! Grandmothers and DH are going to want you to do a lot things. Doesn't mean you have to. They're your babies. Even my DH knows less than I do about what to do with them! Sorry, I'm rambling. I guess it's still kind of a heated issue for me.

Anyway, best suggestion I can give you are the simplest, but sometimes hardest to do with young twins. But It makes all the diffrence in the world for me! Eat. Drink lots of water. And get some rest. Even if I just lay down for five minutes and I relax a bit and can feel my milk let down. And a hot shower does wonders! I never had time to pump (and they just took the pump back, someone else needed it.), and I can't get to the store to get the herbs. But I've been doing this for six weeks now with no problems. We're all here for you :grouphug:

 

Hi, I hope you're doing better. I just wanted to say that I've loved reading this thread. Supportive women make me happy!

 

I have one bull and one pixie too.
I worry about Nadia because she is so much smaller than her brother. She pukes after every feed and is no where near as heavy as he is.

My Pedi reminded me of a few really key things though:
1) They are two very seperate, distinct, DIFFERENT people. You wouldn't compare your child to your sister's, it's kind of the same thing. They will grow at different rates from each other. So long as you have wet/poopy diapers, they are getting the nutrition.
2) Breastfeeding is difficult. It's twice as difficult for twin Mommies.
3) Tears are ok. It's just our soul leaking because we can't keep it in for many reasons; joy, pain, worry, sorrow, love, laughter. Let it flow if it needs to, whatever the reason. Just know you will be ok again later, usually after a chocolate bar and a nap.
4) Babies need their Mothers. We are their source of food, shelter, clothing etc. Just provide what you can and try not to worry about the rest. When you do worry too much, read #3 again.
5) Babies will eat until you take it away. Offer the boob when you think they are hungry and things will go ok.
6) It's ok to supplement. You will not "lose your supply" by supplementing. I am a testimony to this fact! I bf in the evenings and overnight but the babies get formula bottles all day while at the baby sitter's (7-3:30 M-F). I have plenty of supply to go around. Your body just needs a little time to adjust to a changing routine. I do not pump. I am not superwoman either.

You are doing so many things exactly right! Try and keep it all in perspective. My DH can be a jerk too. The first month, the babies were resistant to bf at all. They would cry for the first 15 minutes until I was ready to give up or give them a bottle. (Sometimes I did both...) His comments were pretty assinine from my perspective. He would say stuff like, "They don't like it, why not just give them a bottle?" or my personal favorite, "I can't sleep with them crying all night."

Yeah...

I almost cashed in his life insurance policy a FEW times...

Just let it roll. And then read #3 again...

BTW: Once my DH realized how commited I was to bfing, he became a whole lot more supportive. I just had a small talk with him one day and told him that I was tired. I didn't need his help with the feedings. I would take care of all that. I told him that what I would appreciate is his support of my efforts. If he was unprepared to offer me that I WOULD give up bfing and HE could handle ALL the night feedings... He saw it my way.

Some days I feel like the dog in this scene...
NLV- Dog Scene

 

Have you thought about supplementing with a tube & syringe rather than a bottle (or using a Supplemental Nursing System, for that matter)? I did this, and it was a great way to keep the stimulation up while ensuring that my less-efficient nurser got what she needed until she developed a better latch.

http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/produ...sing-system-sns

http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/produ...sing-system-sns

A lactation consultant would be a good idea, both for a pre/post weigh-in to determine volume consumed, as well as latch and product assistance. Hang in there!

 

Update -

First of all - thank you all again for your suggestions and support!!!!!!

I was able to locate a LC who came to our home and evaulated the girls Wed pm. (Awesome website link - however FYI, it lists the LC's home t# and address.) She said they were nursing ineffectively because they were detaching/reattaching far to often and did too much of the stimulation suck instead of the deep nursing suck. With breast compression, we are working on "teaching" them the correct suck that rewards them with food. She rightfully suggested feeding the girls seperatly so I could give more individual attention as they nursed, but after a couple attempts, this is proven to be far too time consuming while still trying to pump also. Another problem is they stop nursing and hang out until they feel like sucking again. I've been told to move the arms and stimulate them if they stop for more than a few seconds. These few things alone has cut our nursing sessions to 20-30 min! A welcome improvement from the once 45-90 min we were enduring.

I had my OB f/u Wed also. He prescribed a drug that is supposed to help with the supply. (Generic name is metoclopramide- Something about increasing prolactin if I remember correctly.) The LC said I should see results in the next couple days. My family doc did prescribe an anti depressant. (Thank you for the website link discussing the types of antidepressants with breastfeeding) I was surprised when she said mother of multiples are three times more likely to suffer from baby blues/depression than singleton mothers. I hate to admit any weaknesses, but more importantly, the girls deserve the best mother I can be.

Unable to wait until next week's appointment, I took Isabella to the pediatrian today for a weight check. The girl held true to her peeing while being changed and soaked the table when I was putting her in a dry diaper! I caught the first wave, but as the nurse and I were laughing about her "routine" she did it again and left a huge puddle on the super thin paper. Clearly emptying her bladder, we were impressed to see she gained 10 ounces since last Wed!!!!!! This brings her to 7 pounds 13 ounces. I have no idea where it falls on the "charts", but it's a good gain!!! The constant and now revised feedings are starting to pay off! She still has the sunken eyes and occasional indented soft spot, but I have faith this too will resolve soon.

I would love to share pictures, but have no idea how to do this.

Thank you all for your support. I read this over and over again as we feed for continued reinforcement we're doing the right thing and it can be done!!!!

 

Little Lamb, your post made my week!! Such wonderful news all around...even the not-quite-perfect feedings are totally par for the course and will get better quickly, and then the need to pump/supplement will go away, too.

You are awesome for sticking with this and recognizing that taking care of you is the first priority. I wish there were a happy dance emoticon so I could add a conga line right here! Oh wait...
:banana: :banana: :banana: :woohoo: :woohoo: :banana: :banana: :banana: ::woohoo::banana:

 

Hey there! Thanks for sharing all of the good new. I've been thinking of you and your family...I REMEMBER those days!

It takes a lot of work and dedication to breastfeed twins- you're girls are lucky!

Keep us posted and have a good day!

 

That's good news. I'm glad you were able to see the LC.

 

Thank you so much for the awesome update, Little Lamb! I am so, so happy that things are looking up! It's great that you found a good LC, and got some help from your pedi & OB too. No one should have to go it alone BFing twins!

And I have to say, I am very impressed with that weight gain. Not too shabby for an inefficient nurser! :clapping: