Tell me what I'm doing wrong (I mean it!)

It's been reassuring reading some of the recent posts about 4 year old behavior, the mouthiness and attitude, and the return of the tantrums. It sucks, but it's reassuring to see it's normal. I actually found the post about picking your battles and when to give in really eye opening. Because I never give in, and I thought I was doing the right thing. I just assumed if you give in, they learn that no doesn't always mean no and it will cause other problems. Now I'm second guessing everything, because my son is stubborn beyond belief (and so am I!). Two of the behaviors I am struggling with is his anger when he has a tantrum - the screaming, stomping, yelling at the top of his lungs so the whole street can hear him until I give him attention. And his back talking - it's reflexive. He'll say "no I'm not" or "no I won't" or "yes I will" in response to anything I'm disciplining him with and he can't even control it, it just automatically pops out. If I ignore it, he'll make sure to keep repeating it until he has my attention. He is stubborn and WILL NOT let up if I just ignore him. And I feel like I shouldn't ignore it and he should be disciplined to learn that talking that way to your parents is not acceptable. But reading some of the responses to that post made me think I'm doing this all wrong. So here's an example, I'll tell you what I did (and failed at!) and you tell me what you would have done.

Side note: My husband has been out of town this week and my kids were behaving great. I've discovered the trick with my son is to keep him on his schedule, and make sure he's getting enough sleep. When he's overtired you can just see it in his face, and trying to keep it together and not throw tantrums over little things is very difficult. We were coming off a couple weeks of horrendous behavior, trying to get him back on track with his sleep. When he wakes up rested, he's a sweet little boy who I love being around. So this week I made sure to get him in bed on time and he's been very good. Until tonight.

I took them to Target because I needed a couple things. I decided to let them each pick something out of the $1 section as a reward for behaving very well the whole time daddy was gone (he comes home tonight). I haven't been feeling well lately, and they were like on auto pilot taking care of themselves, acting independently, playing so nice and quiet together. I don't usually like to buy them things for no reason, it's either for a special reward or their birthday or christmas. Otherwise, I don't want them to get into the habit of asking for something every time were out. So they've been pretty good about this so far. Anyway, my son picked out a ball. When he got home I told them to go out and play while I made dinner. He played good by himself, since my daughter didn't want to play ball. He came in and asked if I would play with him and I said I would play with him after we had dinner which would be ready in just a moment. Then he layed down on the floor and got mad. I knew it was the beginning of some bad behavior. I calmly told him again that I would play with him in a little bit, but right now I was very disappointed with his behavior. Especially since I had just gotten him a reward for good behavior. When I turned away to continue doing what I'm doing he needs the attention to show me that he's still mad. So he'll start banging the floor. I try to ignore it (but really? can't I just send him to his room right here?) I gave him a warning to calm down and act like a big boy, otherwise he'd be sent to his room. So he gets up, thinks about it, then starts to go outside. But I can still see that anger in his face. He goes outside and starts stomping his feet on the deck. When I ignore that he starts pounding on the glass door. so I open the door and pointed upstairs. He stares at me and shakes his head NO. I tell him again, upstairs. Again, NO. I tell him it's his last warning, or I will carry him up there and close his door. Still stands there staring at me. So I carry him upstairs and I spanked his bottom when he started giving me his screaming attitude as I was carrying him up. It's something I rarely do because I don't understand how to explain it to him, so that was definitely my mistake and I let my anger get the best of me. So then he hits me back (and he's not a hitter, so it proves my mistake). I get him in his room set him down and he's yelling and screaming NO he won't stay in his room, and he hit me again. So I told him I was taking his reward (the ball) away until he can behave like a big boy and earn it back. Screaming gets worse (I don't blame him, I just made him more angry) and I shut the door. But, he quickly calmed down, which is so unlike him. He's been getting better at this the past week, and it's been such a relief (since it's taken almost 4.5 yrs to get to that point). So when I went back in 5 minutes to talk to him, I told him how I was disappointed by his behavior, I explained specifically what he did wrong, but I also praised him for calming down on his own and not continuing to scream and throw a tantrum after I left his room. I could see the smile he was trying to hide and that he was proud. He came out in a good mood for 5 seconds until he realized I followed through with taking his ball away. So the tantrum he had held back was now unleashed and back into his room he went. This time he did not hold back and was pounding on his floor and screaming MOMMY!!! over and over at the top of his lungs because he wants the attention of making me mad. His windows were open, so this was a nice treat for the neighborhood. So I calmly went back and told him if he didn't calm down and act like a big boy, he would be going to bed right after dinner and this was his last warning. I closed his door and left. He continued to scream mommy just as loud for maybe the next 10 minutes or so. When I went back to get him and tell him it was time to eat, and then it would be bed time, it just wouldn't sink in. He kept asking why, as if he didn't understand and he'd get all mad and start demanding that he wasn't going to bed. I think I did a good job explaining what offense let to what punishment. I've recently started adding new forms of punishment other than time out - like taking things away, taking privelages away. But it doesn't seem to sink in. It just leads to excessive back talk and blatant refusal. And I don't know why. I could understand if I always gave in, so then yes he'd be surprised when I actually do it. But like I said, I'm stubborn too, and I always follow through (so I have to be careful with what I say I'm going to do, because I have to mean it). And he's very smart, it's not like he can't comprehend things. The kid can read, and is interested in things like space and science. he asks complex questions about how things work and tells me things I didn't know, all the time! So what do I do? Keep adding stuff to his punishment list when one bad behavior leads to another and another and another? Or just stop digging my heals in and let him get away with more? Do you allow all the back talk and saying "no" or refusal to do something? What do you do when you spent the last hour disciplining, and then a simple task like putting your shoes away is refused? Do you have the energy to start the process all over again? Ok, so I feel like a huge failure right now. So tell me what you would have done, or what you do, and maybe I can try something new the next time.

 

...and then my daughter, who is a complete angel misses out on stuff I don't believe she has ever had one tantrum. Ever. She rarely gets a time out. If I tell her to go in time out, she'll say ok and walk over. She was down here while I was typing this because she couldn't sleep. I told her to go up and pick out a book and I'd come read it to her when I was done. Then she came back down to wait for me. As you can see from my ridiculously long post, it got kind of out of hand, and she ended up falling asleep on the floor here. So I carried her up and saw the book she had waiting for me called "because I love you so much" and I feel horrible that I didn't get to read it to her. Mommy failure again!

 

I could have written that post about myself about Donevan! I honestly would have done what you did. I am at a loss myself for what to do with my 4 yr old. My mom thinks there is something seriously wrong with him as "her kids NEVER did that." I'll be watching this to see what everyone says. I know how you feel though.

 

Thank you for this! It made me want to cry to hear someone understands! And it is so frustrating because I never behaved this way as a kid either. I was exactly like my daughter, and wouldn't imagine back talking or screaming at my parents and trying to test them. I'm pretty sure my husband was the same way, so I don't know where this comes from either. I get scared that there is something wrong too, but then there are times he is so so good and I stop worrying about it. I guess it's a good sign that these times are fewer and further between, but still...I just want to make sure I'm handling it right for the future behavior that is yet to come. I know this is only going to get harder, and I don't want to be a total door mat in their teenage years!

 

You're welcome. This morning was a morning I wanted to shake him. He refused to get dressed, I lay out his clothes for him every night so he can get dressed when he gets up. Well he didn't, he pranced around in his underwear and completely ignored my numerous requests to get dressed while I was getting the twins up and dressed. I got the twins dressed, shoes on and in their car seats and he was still running around in his underwear acting like a wild man. I told him if he wasn't dressed by the time both boys were in the car I was leaving. No one was home and of course I really wasn't going to leave a 4 yr old alone but he doesn't know that. I came back in from putting the twins in the van and there he was running around the house like it was a big joke. So I said, "Bye Donevan, have a good day." Closed and locked the front door, started the van and pulled it forward just enough to freak him out. He got dressed pretty damn fast after that. I get the talk back too, the "NO!" "I don't want too" "You're not nice" etc. His new thing is sticking his tongue out at me, which I HATE. The boys are in French daycare and D goes to a French school as well so I get the talk back in two languages. I think what gets me the most is the all out defiance. I'll tell him not to do something and he looks at me as he does it, or when I ask him to do something he just ignores me and continue whatever he is doing. I so dread when the twins are 4.

 

Oh and your daughter will forgive you so don't beat yourself up. You can always read to her tomorrow night.

 

A few random observations. I hope maybe some of this helps.

First of all, I have found that random purchases at the store usually come back to bite me. Planned purchases that we talk about and put on the list usually do fine. It's the random/impulsive things that seem to go wrong.

Second, when disciplining, fewer words tend to do better. Hand-in-hand with that, quicker is more effective with consequences. It seemed like the discipline with your son spiraled on, and on, and on. It started in the kitchen, went outside, up to his room, out of the room, and back in the room. I probably would have put him in his room to calm down. I wouldn't have taken the ball away. I would have cut him some slack (like I give my own children) for what is affectionately called "the grumpy hungries". Anything that happens within about an hour of dinner is seen through that lens. I'm much more likely to send the kids to go calm down than to take things away. Specifically, how I would have handled your son is to give him a choice. I would have told him he could continue with the tantrum and he would get to go to his room to calm down. Or he could quit and play with his ball and wait for you.

Third, just because they are smart doesn't mean they connect the dots. My Sarah is smart and articulate, but sometimes I wonder at what she seems to not get. Your logic was he just got a reward and should be happy. His logic was he got a ball. Separate and distinct thought was he wanted to play with that ball now and you wouldn't let him do it his way. He got punished. New thought, "I want to play with the ball. Where is the ball? I'm sad it's gone." Then get punished again for expressing frustration. Then continue to get punished by getting sent bed early. You saw the evening as one continuous episode. My guess is he probably saw it as many different, unrelated episodes.

Fourth, boys tend to use words like clubs. Girls tend to be more social. My daughter has always been able to read my face like a book. My son seems oblivious to it. Timothy is by far more blunt. He needs help understanding why that's not a good way to say things. His filter has been slower to develop on learning what to say. Your son knows certain words have power. He's trying out their power on you. And you give a wonderful reaction. You're probably his current science experiment. Next time you might talk to him later about what he should say. Give him alternatives when he's calm.

Honestly, I think some of it the age. I think that you should absolutely pick your battles. You're the grown-up. If you teach your son that every little thing matters, he'll act like every little matters. Give him choices. Which shoes are you going to put up first? Are you going to hop or walk to put your shoes up? Those are also harder questions to backtalk to. It's also not giving in to give him choices. It's giving him control of things that he is able to handle.

I would simplify the punishments. I send my son to his room to calm down. Most of what he does (back-talking, stomping off) is done because he's frustrated and is trying to figure out how to angry/mad/upset. Before he can come out, he has to have a rational conversation. Usually it consists of him explaining to me why he's there. I find things are much more effective if he clearly understand why he's there. Then I tell him how to avoid that. And I'm real specific. Not just "be nice". I explain that I want him to talk quietly and listen please. Timothy 95% of the time goes to his room. He only looses something bigger if behaviour continues. And realize that when he comes out of his room, it's over. Episode is complete to him. There has been a cause and effect.

I hope something of this helps. It's kind of rambling.

Marissa

 

I think I need to print this out and hang it on my fridge! This is all very helpful, and I'm in awe of some of you mom's on here who appear to have it altogether. I don't know why this just doesn't come natural to me! I'm going to keep re-reading it to try to get it to sink in, because there really is some good info here.

So I have some specific questions:
1) When you would have given the choice to calm down in his room or continue to play and wait for me, what would you do if they either A) refused to make a choice and stood there trying to bait me or B) decided to play, but stomped off and was mouthy in the process - do you just let that go? And just take it as this is his way of giving in, and it's ok if he's angry about it even though he's not handling his anger in a way I completely agree with?

2) This sort of goes with the last comment above, but when you mentioned he was expressing frustration over losing the ball (which now I feel really bad about!) what is acceptable behavior and what do you not let slide?

3) Example scenario - so what if I didn't take the ball away, and when he came out of his room the first time and wanted to play again and got mad again - would this be back in his room (new scenario), or an additional punishment (original behavior continuing)? (Sorry, I'm feeling that dumb right now, that I need common sense things spelled out to me right now!)

I do find that he really seems to get it when I talk to him later after he's calmed down and the incident is past. But the next time something similar happens, it's like he has no control and anything I said is forgotten. And of course there's no reminding him in the heat of the moment.

I especially like the comments you made about myself viewing the situation as continuous and how he sees it all separate. And the part about every little thing mattering. Because it kind of does for me, which is a real issue for me. I'm sort of a control-freak, so when one little thing goes wrong, I feel like it's a big deal. And I certainly don't want to pass this on to them. So I will definitely be more aware. And thank you for pointing this out, because it never really even occurred to me.

Oh, and the choices with the shoes, that would certainly have been a better way to go. But I was already at the end of my rope for the day, and I couldn't even pretend to make up a game for it. But again, my problem, not his!

 

Marissa gave you some great advice there. But, one thing I wanted to say is, PLEASE don't say you are a failure!! You are a great mom, who is doing her best, in a situation without a rulebook!! :lol: I don't know about you, but they definitely forgot to hand out the parenting manual to me when my kids were born!

Something else I just thought of, I have a couple of friends who have kids with similar behaviors to what you are describing your little man has. I remember them mentioning a book called "The Defiant Child" or something similar to that. I just googled it, but read some of the reviews, and they also suggested a book called "The Explosive Child". It seemed to have better reviews than the defiant child one. Anyways, I thought you could look at them and see if either of them might help you with some of his behaviors. I haven't read them myself. AND by no means am i suggesting he has the Oppositional Defiance Disorder the title reads! I just thought I'd throw them out there.The Defiant ChildThe Explosive Child

We've been very lucky that so far our kids have had mine and dh's pretty laid back personalities. Liam, he might be the one to challenge that though He throws his own little tantrums, so far it's just stomping his feet but we'll see what the years bring with him. He's already giving us grey hairs!!

 

Once again, describing my life. But add a 9 month old getting five teeth to the mix! I am in tears at least once a day. I feel like I cannot go on like this. The tantrums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to shut all my windows and keep the air on 24-7 because of it!

I feel for you. It's h*ll at my house.

 

Denise, :hug: you are not a failure at all, don't even think that for a minute. I second everything Marissa just said. Marissa, I need to print your post out for some reminders for myself!
My son is the one with a temper. He's the one who is prone to lash out and is quick to anger. One of the things he says to me when he gets angry with me (or DH or his sister) is that 'I want a new Mommy.' I realized that he is saying this to hurt me/make me as angry as him but I just say okay and don't react. He'll start to say, "But I said I want a new Mommy." Eventually after not getting the reaction he was seeking he gives up.
I find the calmer I remain (and this is so HARD, trust me) during discipling either of the children, the more effective I am. If either one of them do something that earns them getting sent up to their room, they go and once they are calm and I am calm, I explain why, very short sweet and to the point. I also find the more warnings I give, the more chances I am a giving them to continue with unacceptable behavior. It was three strikes when they were little, we are now a 1 strike house.
If it were me :
1. The continual talk back/tantrum after you explained that you will be happy to play after dinner, would have earned him a trip to his room in my house. My theory is that they need to learn patience and they just can't expect people to drop what they are doing to do what the child wants right then and there. Calling names/being mean about it really doesn't encourage me to play with you. Once my son or DD calms down after an event like this, I'll say something to them like, "If (insert name of friend/classmate here) acted liked that, would you want to play with them?"
2. I would acknowledge the frustration, the child's and my own. And say if you can be patient and wait until after dinner, you can earn the ball back and we'll play. But you have to use good words, nice voice and be nice to me and your sister.
3. I would do back in the room...even if it means he has to go back several times. You could also (in lieu of the room) say, the ball gets put away until tomorrow (or add that to the punishment).

I don't think you are doing anything wrong, per se. Kids just take you there and when you are in the moment, you can't see the most effective way to handle the situation. With the "I want a new Mommy comments" flying around my house, I was seriously irritated by it and both kids knew it. I talked to my Mom about it and she said, "Ignore it. I know it's hard but you can't let them see you be upset about that. You are feeding the beast then." It is so hard to remain calm and rational when they keep the pushing the buttons over and over again.

 

Just hang on a little longer. 4 1/2 has been amazing for the most part.

I totally totally agree with Marissa. And anything good, bad, or emotional that happens near a snack or food time is totally seen through the hunger lens. And I notice that when either of my two are emotional wrecks, it's generally because they are hungry; having lowish blood sugar (low side of normal, not truly low) makes you more volatile. I know my best friend who is diabetic, when she has a (true) low blood sugar, gets extremely violent, unruly, or just acts like a mean drunk. So I always keep snack and meal times in mind when my kids are belligerent. Sometimes I give them an extra snack or small cup of juicy water if they're acting like turkeys and it's still a ways away to the next snack time. And it gets worse before growth spurts.

*****
1) When you would have given the choice to calm down in his room or continue to play and wait for me, what would you do if they

A) refused to make a choice and stood there trying to bait me I personally would just pick them up and park them in the TO spot. If that's the bedroom, then that's where he should go. For us, it's the stairs. I no longer put minutes on TO, because now the only time they really get TO is when they're emotional and can't calm down. When they're calm, they can get up

B) decided to play, but stomped off and was mouthy in the process - do you just let that go? And just take it as this is his way of giving in, and it's ok if he's angry about it even though he's not handling his anger in a way I completely agree with? Just let it go. You know, it *is* okay that he's angry. You're probably pretty angry at that point too, right? Anger is a valid emotion, and he just doesn't have the grasp on how to keep it under control yet.

2) This sort of goes with the last comment above, but when you mentioned he was expressing frustration over losing the ball (which now I feel really bad about!) what is acceptable behavior and what do you not let slide? For us, I don't allow physical outlashes. So punching, hitting, slapping, all of those are immediate TO offenses. I do take toys away, in addition to TO, for up to a week depending on the offense. (Right now, R is not allowed any Leapster or DS time because he abused the system last weekend by sneaking off and playing without asking first. So he got TO for not listening to me, and lost the DS/Leapster for a week because he continued to pitch a fit after TO.)

3) Example scenario - so what if I didn't take the ball away, and when he came out of his room the first time and wanted to play again and got mad again - would this be back in his room (new scenario), or an additional punishment (original behavior continuing)? (Sorry, I'm feeling that dumb right now, that I need common sense things spelled out to me right now!) I would consider that a new situation, but only because you didn't warn him during the first infraction that if he continued on this path, or if he had another outburst in the same day you would take the ball from him for a day. I always warn my two during the current punishment of what the next step will be if they continue. "If you get up from TO before I tell you you can, you will go up to your room/write a letter of apology/lose a toy/whatever appropriate punishment, and if you start screaming like that again before you go to bed tonight, you will go to your room and your LEGO will go in TO for a day."

 

First of all you are not a failure. Looking after kids is hard work and nobody's perfect, there are always going to be bad days.

Second of all Marissa gave some great advice. If I'm having a problem with a certain behaviour I try to remember to stop and think about how the child is probably viewing the situation (don't always succeed but I try). I think that your son probably seeing as separate incidents what you see as one is an excellent point. Also that being smart does not automatically mean being able to puzzle out emotions (yours and his).

I am very similar to you, in that I'm super stubborn and hate to go back once I've said no or not follow through on a consequence. I think I would have handled much of that tantrum in the same way that you did. When he first started banging the floor it might have been helpful to give him a clearer instruction/choice-"You can stop banging the floor and wait in here with me while I cook, or you can go and play with your ball or you can go and calm down in your room". I would have ignored the stomping on the deck (as you did) but treated his hitting the glass as a separate issue (not a continuation of the first tantrum), so I would have told him to stop hitting the glass and given him another warning about going to his room instead of sending him straight there. At this point I might have reiterated that I would play ball once dinner was finished and suggested a different activity he could do while waiting. Also while I hate backtracking if I feel I've been too harsh in saying something or made a decision when angry (like you taking his ball away because he hit you when you put him in his room) I'll look for a way to get round it. You said you were really pleased with how well he calmed down the first time in his room, I'd have used that as him 'behaving like a big boy' and let him earn the ball back for that.
I also found the 'pick your battles' thread interesting and it's something I had to work hard at (and still mess up). I think that for me, being so stubborn, the easiest way of picking my battles is to stop and think before I say no "Is this really something that matters to me? Is this something I'm prepared to fight them on if I have to?" That way I get into fewer situations where something little becomes a huge deal. I also think that it's actually important to sometimes change your mind after saying no. Otherwise how will they ever learn to back down from an argument? All they will learn is that the strongest/most stubborn person wins. That doesn't mean that I say no to something just so that I can change my mind and say yes five minutes later but, if I find myself stuck in a battle of wills over something I realise is not a big deal, or if I decide a consequence but then think about it and realise it's too harsh I think it's OK to go to them and say that you've thought about X and decided that doing Y would be better than doing Z and give them your reasons.

 

1) If he had refused to make the choice, the choice would have been to go to his room to calm down. And let him know that. If he's mouthy and decided to play, I would have ignored it. He's probably trying for a reaction. He's allowed to be angry. He's also allowed to be 4 and hungry.

2) What you let slide is ultimately up to you. I try and make more allowance for hunger, sleep and sick. Physical stuff is immeadiate punishment. They are allowed to be angry, they aren't allowed to hurt.

3) I would have redirected him completely upon getting out of time out the first time. I find when temper tantrums occur, it usually means they are needing more positive interaction with me. So, when he got out of time-out, I would have let him have the ball, but then asked him if he could help me with dinner so we could get outside faster. And getting him to help might have been something simple like taste-testing so he starts eating a bit and gets nicer. Instead of just asking a 4 year old to wait, give him a way to get there faster and get positive attention.

My daughter has horse riding camp so I have to get moving. But it's not always joy and bliss around here. There are days when I'm thankful grandma takes the kids once a week for sleepovers and I'm glad there aren't video cameras in the house. But overall, if I can keep food regular, sleep regular, and remember to think like an _____ year-old, things go pretty well.

Marissa

 

I totally meant to say this as well. It's very easy with hindsight to say "well I should have done this, that and the other", not so easy to remember in the moment.

And I totally agree with all Bex's and Marissa's answers to your additional questions. I have run out of plus points with all these great replies.

:hug:

 

I didn't read all the responses but something to think about is that he had a need that needed to be met. He wanted to spend time with his mom. Kids especially young kids want instant results. He didn't get his need met and he was probably hungry and tired as well. Something you might try to do next time is say to him you seem to really like your new ball and you would like for mommy to play with you. Let him say yes. I know you want mommy to play with you right now but I need to get dinner ready so we can eat. Would you like to help me with dinner? I could really use a helper. We can play with your ball after dinner. Can you do XXX? Or something similar. You acknowledge that he wants you to play with him. You let him know you will play with him after dinner (be sure to follow thru). And you give him a little of the attention he needs by having him help. Also make sure you get right down on his level when you talk to him so he knows he has your full attention and that you are listening to him express himself. I find that acknowledging what they need or want is a huge help in preventing meltdowns.

I have two very persistant preschoolers. And sometimes I have to stop and remember to get down on their level and really listen and acknowledge them to prevent meltdowns.

 

Thank you for posting this! I've been lucky in that my girls are pretty laid back & easy going, but I've still gotten some great tips/ideas from this thread. As a fellow type A control freak, learning to let go has been very difficult for me (although getting easier with each added child - trying to maintain control now is like thinking an umbrella's gonna help in a hurricane)

 

I think you actually did most things right, and really just had a bad day with your son. We've all had those.

I do pick my battles and at the same time I try to never "give in." That sounds incongruous, I know. But I just don't give rules/ultimatums/consequences, I'm not prepared to stick to. And I try to not give them for little things that can turn into big things. So there are certain rules, like safety things (not running in the street), not throwing things in the house, not jumping on the furniture, that I just don't back down on. I don't want kids hurt or things ruined (though of course they still sometimes are). Like you, I want my kids to know that they can believe me when I say it, and that there are consequences for their actions. But if I want to go somewhere and there's the remotest possibility that they're going to no do what I've asked, I don't make the activity about them. We're going because I want to go. But they might not get to enjoy it, fully. Or I take away some other treat at the activity that everyone else will get. That way I haven't punished everyone for one person's antics.

I have also picked a screaming child up and put them in their room. Then sat in front of the door, until they can calm down. When I think a child isn't understanding me, or is willfully ignoring me, I have them repeat what I've asked them to do and what the consequences are in their own words. That usually helps, because they can't say they didn't know. I have to do this every single night with Sydney, or she'll be in bugging her brothers instead of getting in her own bed. But having her repeat that she's going to brush her teeth, go potty, say her prayers and get in her own bed, and saying that I can trust her to keep her word, really helps. She is 6, but this is something I even do with Spencer if I think he's not really hearing me. And he'll fight me on it sometimes, because I think he knows that he can't wiggle out of whatever I'm asking so easily.

And the hardest part of all, is to stay calm. Losing my temper basically says I've given control over to the kids, in my mind. And I HATE feeling out of control. I do yell some, but I'm working hard to do it much less. So I sing. Sometimes I sing Sunday School songs, sometimes I sing what I'm telling the kids. It can help lighten the mood a bit.

And once in awhile, I will back down just a little. I might say something like, "I told you I was taking your ball away for your bad behavior, and I did. But I have thought about it and since I really appreciate that you calmed down so quickly, I will give it back to you." By which, I'm not saying you were wrong. Just that sometimes I do something like that and it seems to go a long way with my relationship with my kids. Maybe it shows them that I realize I'm not perfect, or that I can compromise, or that there is something to be said for redemption and mercy? I don't know. And I don't do it often, maybe not often enough.

 

I forgot to mention repeating. Having them repeat stuff back to me works great here too, and it's interesting because often Ethan, who looks like he's paying no attention at all, will be able to say it back exactly whereas Eleanor, who'll nod along and seem to be taking it in, won't. Either way I feel better following through on consequences when I know for sure that they knew what I was asking of them and what was going to happen if they didn't listen.

I'm definitely going to try singing the instruction to them the next time I feel like shouting as well.

This is the point I was trying to make in my earlier post, when I said I think it's OK to change your mind sometimes, only much more eloquently expressed. :good:

 

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the helpful advice! I have to go back and re-read everything when I have more time. But I'm already trying to take things a little more lightly and pick my battles. I never thought about how never giving in could actually cause some problems for them emotionally in the future, but now I think that's a very valid point. W

hen my son got up the day after putting him to bed early and taking his ball away, I explained to him how I wasn't happy with his behavior, but I understood why he was upset and I think I was a little hard on him. So I gave him his ball back. It helped that he didn't wake up complaining and asking for it, and even when he did see it (I took it out and put it on my dresser that night so I could give it back in the morning, and in the morning he walked by it a few times), but he didn't say anything about it - like he remembered and understood. So when I gave it back to him he was all smiles and so excited.

So far he's been back to himself and being a good kid. There were a couple borderline episodes where I could see him really trying to hold it together, but I just gave him some space and he managed to not have a tantrum and get past being upset without misbehaving. So I've been making sure to praise him for that. He was not even capable of that 6 months ago, so I hope it's a sign he'll grow out of this someday.

 

I love this. It is so important and so difficult (for kids AND adults!) to admit you were wrong. I think when it's done judiciously like this, it sets a wonderful example for kids. If they see that their #1 role models (at this age, anyway ) can admit to imperfection calmly, openly, with good humor and without losing face, it can only be that much easier for them.