Please Help

First let me say that I have wonderful kids that are amazingly well behaved, extremely happy and are just good kids. The problem I have is with discipline and taking directions. Every time you tell them that something they did was bad (like throw a ball at the t.v. or pull his brother's hair) and it's time for time out they get excited. It's not like I put them in the game room that I don't have. No. I put them in a corner with no distractions that is in a quiet area. They face the wall and I have them sit down and put their head down looking at their legs. It's not cruel or mean or anything over the top (at least I didn't think it was). The time out last for 2 minutes (they are 2) but if they get up or talk they get another minute added. When I go over to them to explain why they went to time out (in a soothing voice) they just smile and want me to stop touching them so they can go play. Before I do that I ask them to say sorry and I ask for a hug and then I tell them how much I love them but that it's just not good when they do those things. That is not word for word, I am paraphrasing.

Sooo, the sit in time out alone facing the wall does not work because they smile when you tell them that's what's happening and when it's over. When I smack they're tushies or their hand (not hard) I get the same response from them.

I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do to discipline them so they won't keep doing these things over and over again.

Any ideas?

Much appreciated, thanks,
Kristine

 

My experience is that they are probably doing it to get a reaction from you. They smile at that time, and you give them an interesting reaction. With Timothy, it's a science experiment where you get to be the lab rat.

I would also be careful not to use too many words when talking to them at punishment time. Timothy would listen to about the first 5 words and then drift off. He'd drift and have moved on in his mind. When it's done, keep it short and sweet and as they develop the ability, have them tell you why they were in time-out. Or ask them questions like "do we hit our brother?" (or whatever it was). Don't just talk at them, have them communicate with you. They very well might just be thinking ahead to what they're going to play with and are happy about that.

Marissa

 

You just described every two to three year old I've ever met. My girls are pretty well behaved and what your boys do is pretty much exactly what they did at 2.5. They just didn't seem to care that they were in time out. I never tried hitting them, but even that probably wouldn't have gotten through either.

I think the only thing you can do is keep up the discipline and be consistent, but also pick your battles. Use time outs only for the big stuff so that it's only a few times a day. When we did time outs more than that, it lost all impact. Right about age 3, I found the 1-2-3 Magic book and that helped a bit. It just aided me in being consistent.

All that said, hang in there! Your boys will eventually "get" the concept of discipline and they'll react more the way you expect. But for now, just ignore the smiles and giggles.

Edited to add: I just read Marissa's response and I totally agree. Use as few words as possible when explaining what they did wrong. Any more than a few at that age and my kids would tune me out. I actually stopped explaining at the end of the time out what they did wrong (suggestion from 1-2-3 Magic) and that helped too. It saved my sanity since my kids weren't paying attention anyway.

 

Time out is a time for them to calm down. They don't have to hate it for it to be effective. The full term is "time out from positive reinforcement" and the goal is to remove any interaction during their time out, but when they aren't in time out you praise them for the things they do right. Since kids like attention, they'll do more of the good stuff (that gets them attention) and less of the bad stuff that get them ignored (in time out). Also since they are 2 they are just starting to understand the concept of cause and effect. If they throw a ball at the tv and mommy goes bazerk (I've been there!), weeee mommy is acting nutty! If they throw a ball at the tv and mommy calmly puts me in the corner and doesn't talk to me, then man this is no fun. Much easier said than done, I know. But consistency now will pay off later when they are older and understand cause and effect, and try to manipulate it to their advantage. GL!!!

 

THANK YOU LADIES! I swear, I feel like I'm loosing my head!

I don't do time out because I, too, knew that if used to much for trivial things that the punishment itself would loose all ground and it would not be taken seriously so I don't do it a lot but here lately (must be that they are 2.5) it's become more and more frequent. I never thought of time out as a time to calm down and I guess that's because time out when I was a kid was always punishment. Basically I guess my new question would be this...

Scenario, it's dinner time the kids are at the table with Mom and Dad and the boys take a bite (no matter if it's their favorite or they hate it or if they are starving or said they wanted to eat) chew it up and then let it fall out of their mouth onto the table, floor, leg, plate, whatever it decides to hit. I say (in what I think is a non-reactive way but I can't see my face so I don't know what I look like as I'm saying it) something along the lines of "That's a no no, we don't do that. Put in your mouth, chew and then swallow it so you can be big and strong." So what does he do? Pouts, head down looking at his food and then I'll say. "Come on, eat your food, it's yummy" and he'll play with it and as he does this the playing gets crazier and soon he's stuffing it all into his booster seat or dropping it on the floor for the dogs, anything but eating it...oh and sometimes he'll use it to "clean" the table.


So as one child has done everything I've just mentioned the other who is sitting next to him start doing everything he does...everything! I react to him the same was I reacted to his brother but it instigates it somehow (probably from the kids laughing at each other). Then my discipline turns into "Boys, that's a no no. Boys, don't do that. Boys, stop feeding the dog. Boys...fill in the blank" Somehow (and I'm hoping someone on here has the answer to this and can teach me) they need to learn that they can't do that during every.single.meal. Saying no doesn't work and "dinner time outs" (removing the food all together) doesn't work. I know that kids often play with food when they aren't hungry or when they're done but I have been able to teach my kids to answer me correctly if they are all finished or if they want more. If I ask anything from, do you want to eat, are you done, still hungry? or any of those questions and get a "no no no" then they are still hungry but if they hand me their plate and say "all done" they're finished eating. If I do a dinner time out and remove their plates and they whine it means they're still wanting to eat. Oh and if they want more or they don't like what is in front of them they will say "more, please".

It's just so frustrating. I know they are acting their age. I know they are feeding off each other. But there has got to be a way to focus on their meal just a little more than they are now. I have tried feeding them separately but that leads to massive hissy fits from the brother in the living room and the one eating continually asking "all right? brother? what's wrong?". No eating gets done then either.

It's when they use their fork as swords and knifes and fight each other or poke each other or push the sharp end of their fork into the straw of their cup to rip it a part that I have to use the hand tap technique. I hate the word hit, it sounds so cruel and abusive and that is not at all what I am doing. It's more of a tap. I've never once cause physical pain or pain that hurt so much they screamed. That's never happened.

I do TRY to stay emotionless and refrain from facial expressions because like others have mentioned I know they feed off of my reaction and if my "NO" face is funny they will keep doing it so they get the funny face again.

Any suggestions/tips/ideas?

Thanks also for the great advice already given!!!

It seems this complete lack of authority happened overnight and left me with 2 boundary pushers and hyperactive sugar balls and they don't even eat anything sweeter than fruit and an occasional graham cracker or animal cracker.

 

super sorry for the accidental double post - I have no idea how that happened...so sorry

 

When mine acted up at the dinner table, I would try to calmly get up, turn their chair around so they loose their audience. I would barely even say anything. Undesirable behaviour received a complete loss of any attention. Good behaviour received tons of praise. If a meal was great by everyone, a few tiny bites of ice cream might magically appear.

Marissa

 

For meals, I would say in a neutral to happy voice, "Oh, I see you spit out your food. That means you are done. Then take his plate, dump it in the trash, and excuse him from the table. No more food until next mealtime.

 

All I can say is welcome to the world of 2-3 yr olds Everything you are describing is normal. Repetition, redirection, and a ton of patience are you best allies. Eventually it'll click for them what they are and aren't supposed to do. Until then, you have to repeat, repeat, repeat!

 

I've be wanting to try this but I thought sending a 2 year about his day without food would be mean. This puts that idea into a new perspective and I think I'll give it a go.
How long and how many times (if you can remember..lol) did it take for him to get the idea?

Marissa, great advice too, thanks a lot! How do you manage silence with your twins when you were going through this? How long did it last? I'm all about praising away the bad...lol. When they do good things they get praise and singing so much they get embarrassed and put their hand on my mouth and say "no no no momma, no"..lol


Thanks to, danibell. It's good to know, rather Fword AMAZING to know that I'm not doing something wrong to create this insanity and that it's normal...*hugs*

 

Frankly if he plays with his food, he's probably not hungry anyway. DS goes to bed without dinner most nights, because he has two bites then gets up from the table, so we put his food away.

I don't really have much advice though... still struggling with this. When they're really naughty, they get sent to their room (mostly to give me a break). But I haven't found any effective discipline unfortunately.. always works short time but they do the same thing later...

 

It's never been an issue for us. It's usually dinner at our house, and I know that they barely eat most nights and are fine. You could also play with the timing of the next meal if you thought they were really hungry. Mine learned pretty quickly. They used to react just like yours. Now if I een start to count they are immediately listening and begging me to stop counting (to avoid a timeout). Timeouts are pretty rarely necessary anymore. We still have listening issues, but usually they resolve in a warning.