I don't know what to do

Hi Everyone!

My twins just turned one year old and I am starting to feel rather inadequate as a mother and am starting to realize exactly how much I DON'T know in terms of what to do! I have a few issues that are making me stress and I'm hoping I can get some advice!

1- STTN (or lack there of) - OK, we were doing pretty good with this for a while...they haven't actually ever slept through the night but they used to be able to go from about 6:30 to 4:00 - wake for a bottle then back down till about 6:30/7:00. Now for the past month or so they wake up WITHOUT FAIL at 10:30 and despite CIO and rocking, nothing will calm them down unless it's a bottle. Then they wake up again around 4 for another bottle. I'm scared I'm getting them into a terrible habit. At first I thought maybe it was teething or a growth spurt but it seems to be going on for much too long! And this issue leads me to me next one...

2- Eating - I'm so worried I am not feeding them enough solids during the day. They usually have cereal and fruit for breakfast, a snack, then lunch, another snack, supper and then bed time bottle. Just recently I've added a daytime bottle back into the mix to help go down for naps and kind of hoping it would somehow get them to sleep better at night. For the most part, they eat OK -

so I must ask: have any of you had these issues? How did you handle them? How much should 12 month olds be eating? I should also mention daytime and bedtime bottles are whole milk and night time bottles are still half and half (with formula) - not sure if that would have anything to do with it. I'm planning to cut out formula in the next week or so. I just feel like I've tried everything to settle them back down without a bottle at night and feel that 2 bottles a night shouldn't be necessary at this age!

HELP!!!

Thanks so much!!!

 

Wow, sorry you are going through this! My twins are 14 months today. After they turned one, the day when we finished the last can of formula - few days after their birthday we gave up bottles in the same time as formula. We introduced milk in sippy cups. We had a hard time getting them adjusted to sippy cups, but those days we made sure they had yogurt and ricotta cheese and cottage cheese to make sure they get calcium, and in 3-4 days they were already drinking milk from sippy cups. Also, we tried 4 different type of sippy cups and 2 different straw cups and they accepted the take and toss ones - the cheapes ones, I tried them after I read about them on this forum.

My kids were also used to fall asleep while drinking a bottle so that's why I was afraid it was going to be bad. We have music boxes - we call them TVs - for them, we put that on to distract them after we put them to bed... It was bad with falling asleep for about 2 days wiht Max and about 2 weeks with Vanessa but then they started to sleep. Their pediatrician told me they need about 15-20 oz of milk at this age/ day, so now they have 3 sippy cups of milk per day, plus they each have a yogurt after lunch and dinner, so we hope they get plenty of calcium, plus the yogurt is full fat. I must admit, my babies didn't eat between 7 PM and 8 AM in a long time, maybe since they were 5-6 months old.

Around the same time when they turned one we transitioned them to 1 nap, since they were both fighting the morning nap or were taking 2 30 minutes naps. Now they take one nap from 12-2,30-3 PM.

Usually they wake up at 7ish - then they have breakfast at 8 - and a sippy cup, then at 10 some snack - cheerios, a banana, or pretzels. At 11.45 they have lunch, plus a yogurt each, after that they go to sleep. When they wake up they have a sippy cup of milk plus another snack. Maybe around 5 PM they have another pretzel, or a banana, or something small. At 6,30 I am giving them a bath or shower and at 7 PM they have dinner, plus a sippy of milk plus a yogurt and when we bring them upstairs they usually started to sleep without crying, but it took a few weeks to have them both fall asleep easy after giving up bottles. I played with their bath, it used to be dinner, bath, bed, but then I realized bath woke them up and they needed to do soemthing after, so I switched diner and bath, and it's better since we do that.

We have the same problem like you, they wake up at night, maybe 9-10 PM, or 2-3 AM. We think it's teething, they both had a lot of teeth coming in the same time, they were late teethers. We are trying to give them Tylenol or teething gel, but it's hard. I think each week we have at least 4 nights when one is awake and at times they wake the other up as well.

I told you what we do. My advise would be try to give up the bottles, I think longer you wait, the harder it would be to give it up, when they start talking they will ask for it, so it will be even harder. I am telling you this as a kid that I drank milk from a bottle until I was 3. My parents think I was crazy to get rid of the bottles so fast, but looking back, they think it's easier since we gave them up also. My parents watch our kids while we are at work. Also my teeth come out in the front and I think it's because of a bottle for so long so that was my main reason to give them up.

Also another adivse would be try to feed them more during the day, maybe if they take more calories in, they won't wake up at night. Maybe give them food that is more filling.

Good luck, I know it's not easy, I hope you can get them off bottles and they stop waking up at night, but it may be a while....

 

Well I don't know how much help I can be as one of mine is still not STTN. Most night she wakes at around 1am and won't go back to sleep without a bf. (my 2 are 18months!!!)
But it sounds like your giving them plenty to eat and as long as they are getting plenty of other dairy, they should be fine.

I think there are a lot of variables why babies don't sleep. Teething, growing, hunger are just some reasons. My 2 still sleep in my room and that's not ideal but is unavoidable for us, but I think is probably contributing to t1 not STTN.

Also habit I think can play a big part. T1 doesn't STTN and it has become habit for her to wake up and she expects that bf to go back to sleep. Have you tried offering water instead of milk. The idea being that they realise that it's not so exciting waking up just for water and they go back to sleep.

 

I totally agree with this. It's hard to say why some babies and young toddlers don't sleep thru the night. You've gotten some great advice in this thread and I don't have much to add to it. I would also suggest maybe changing the bedtime routine around a bit where it doesn't include a bottle. When I dropped the before bed bottle with my two, I gave them a sippy of milk an hour before they get ready for bed and then when it was time to get ready for bed, we did quiet time, getting them in their PJ's, reading, bath time on bath nights, and if they were thirsty, we'd give them a little bit of water. We also use fans to block out the noise.
As for the eating, I forget where I read this but I did read that a serving size for a toddler is 1 tbsp for each year of age. So their serving sizes are small and I did realize (after being a little frantic about their weight and the pediatrician being concerned about them being on 5% for weight at 12 months) that I could not control how much they ate. The best I could do is serve them the food and it was up to them whether or not they ate. There are times, even now (my twins will 4 next month), where I have to remind myself that they will not starve themselves.

 

My son gave up the night bottle on his own, but I had to wean my DD off the night bottle (only one at about 2h00) by decreasing the amount of milk that I gave her, 25ml (don’t know what that is in ounces) every 3 days, it took about 2 weeks.When we were at 50ml she did not wake up anymore for that bottle. If you choose this route, I would suggest weaning them off the 10 o’clock bottle first and then the 4 o'clock. Water never did the trick for them.

Its sounds like they eat enough during the day. Elizabeth Pantley’s sleep book for toddlers and pre-schoolers has a list of what she calls food that promotes good sleep.

 

Thank you all so much for the advice. I will certainly try them all and see what happens. I am going to try the water first though...except maybe in a sippy instead of the bottle...part of me thinks they are waking up just b/c they are thirsty - here in Alberta it's rather dry! They haven't had a single bottle today (except bedtime) and we'll try giving water at 10:00 and see what happens!

Thanks again for all the advice! It helps so much!

 

We had to give up the bottles because their 12-18m daycare class would not allow them! I was scared of doing it, but the transition was surprisingly fast. For the first week, we fell back to bottles, but stopped that once we were certain they would drink from a sippy cup if they had to.

Sleeping through the night - i feel your pain! Have you discussed this with your pedi? Our pedi's were super helpful and encouraging about what to do wrt STTN. Without them, we would have been lost.

Our girls were both capable of STTN, but teething, illness, and other things would regularly conspire to wake them up. We stopped giving night bottles when they started getting teeth. There is a reason - you don't want them to get bottle caries. You also want to be careful about letting them drink too much milk. 20oz/day is the maximum. We exceeded this maximum, not understanding it, and not wanting them to get dehydrated because they would not drink anything else, and both of them got wicked constipated. Now they will drink diluted apple juice and water. They love to drink from my cup like big girls! I wish you luck, and remember to consult your pedi!

 

I'm new to this forum. This is my first post. I know it's a bit late to give advice on STTN now because what we did with our twins worked when they were very young i.e. around 1 month old. Virtually right after we got through the colic stage, we would just put them in their cot (back then they slept together in one), we'd turn off the light and that's it...they almost instantly learned to settle and fall asleep on their own. There was no carrying them around for half the night (only several times when they had colic), no rocking because we were just exhausted (no help, just me and the hubby), and so decided teaching them to fall asleep on their own as early as possible would help us survive. It worked.

PS English is not my first language, so I apologize for any mistakes in the above post!

 

Welcome! I wish I did this when they were so small, but DD had very and I mean very bad reflux. She just did not sleep very well. Luckily she is my star sleeper now, but good sleep only happened at about a year.

 

I'm new here, but I'd love some advice in the same vein! My boys are turning 1 next week (10m adjusted). They have no problem falling asleep. We put them down and they go to sleep. No rocking, etc. required. Well, except DS1 who is very active and fights being restrained or quiet at any time. And DS2 has night terrors. But other than that...

HOWEVER... they go to bed between 7-8pm, and then they're up around 11-12, then again at 4-5, and then 6-7 for good. And they have 8oz each time! So they're getting 20oz+ from bedtime to breakfast! I've tried to cut it down, but then they wake up extra early (like 4:30-5am) and won't go back to sleep. They're incredibly active, constantly moving during the day. And strong. The last time I put one of them in a sleep sack he literally kicked a hole through the fabric within five minutes. They don't eat as much during the day, because they're so busy and distracted. I swear they have ADHD already.

So how do you get rid of the bottle if they haven't totally mastered the sippy cup yet? Do you just take it away and force them to figure it out or end up thirsty?

And if they're still eating that much at night, is it okay for me to let them CIO a bit? The last time I tried they were hysterical and I gave up after an hour (which seemed cruel in of itself).

And if you're reducing/eliminating the bottle during the day, is it too much to take it away at night at the same time? Or do you do one first, then the other?

The irony here is that DH is a sleep specialist, so we should know how to do this better! But I think since they were preemies we've been nervous about pushing stuff like taking away their bottles or not feeding them. But like a PP said, I have to remember that they're not going to starve to death!

And is there EVER a good time to bite the bullet and start doing this? I haven't slept more than a few hours at a time in 18 months, and I'm used to it now. I'm being a pansy, I know! Everyone will benefit from getting rid of the bottles and sleep training, but I'm hoping some of you with more experience have some good advice.

 

Wow, Feydruss, I feel so bad for you. Maybe you should start a new thread with your questions. I think it would be benneficial for them and for you if you can all get some good night sleep. I can't say I am an expert, and from having 2 babies - I can say they are NOT alike, each has different attitude towards sleep so maybe if something works for the one, doesn't work for the other, and also, what may work for my kids, may not work for yours. However, I can offer you some suggestions based on my experience.

You didn't mention how big your kids are. Mine were born at 37 weeks 5 days and they were 6 # 5 oz at birth each, and at about 2-3 months they became huge - they have been in the 90-95% since then on weight and height. You mentioned your kids are premature, if they are on the small side, maybe they still need to eat at night, if they are big, chances are they don't need to eat at night and they wake up out of habit. I think you should discuss this with their doctor.

My kids stopeed drinking formula at night at about 4-5 months, and I didn't do anything to force the issue, they just stopped waking up at night. It didn't happen overnight, some nights they were sleeping through the night, some they were still waking, and they had 3-5 oz each time, but eventually at about 5 months they stopped waking completely, between 8 PM-6-7 AM. They started waking again shortly after their first birthday and it was a mess for about a month, but I am not giving them milk at night at this age, I am blaming them waking on teething, each had about 4 teeth coming in at once, and I think after their teething pain stopped they kept waking out of habit. During the last few nights they both started STTN again and I am so thankful to be able to sleep again. I hope I didn't jinx myself by saying that .

We did CIO with them for naps, but modified CIO - we went in after 3 min, 5 min, 10 min and so on, which takes longer to work but it wasn't as heartbreaking. We had to do that around 5-6 months during the day. We didn't need to do it for nighttime. How are your babies about naps? Do they nap well during the day? Maybe you can start doing CIO for naps and if that works, then start working on nights also.

Few sugestions that help my kids stay asleep:

A sound machine - we have this one

I used to put this on every night since they were born, we usually keep in on the rain, but it has ocean waves, heartbeat and a few lullabies and it can stay on all night. For some reason I FORGOT about it lately, but ever since I started to use that again they started to sleep uninterrupted again. Also, do you have a humidifier? I found that that helps them also, they sleep better when it's on.

Also we have these soothers and they seem to help them settle down also, but the sound machine with the rain works better for my kids, these are a bit distracting since they get up and look into the light and start pushing buttons. They work also though, because eventually they settle down and listen to the music, but it stops in 20 minutes.

Also my kids have little loveys and they seem to help also, Max loves his and if he wakes up at night, he hugs the lovey and goes back to sleep.
My kids eat a lot during the day, at times they surpsise me how much they can eat. I would say they have a snack at least every 2 hours, around their main meals, plus they eat yogurt after lunch and dinner. Lately I switched them on plain yogurt and they love that also. They are also extremely active and they are walking and running and getting into everything.

From my experience, it was worth it to get rid of the bottles. Other than the fact that it's not good for their teeth, it's a pain to clean bottles and nipples, I couldn't wait to get rid of them and I couldn't wait to get rid of formula. We did it cold turkey, we introduced milk in the same time, so it was new to them, the milk and the sippy cups. They were cranky and refused them in the beginning, but we kept insisting, and by the second day they were drinking some milk out of them, and by day 4 I think they were drinking a full 8 oz cup. I am not forcing them to finish milk, I think with the yogurt and the cheese they get plenty of calcium, but I think they have at least 15-20 oz a day each, which is the recommended amount after turning one. During those days when they didn't drink that much milk they had more water, they have been drinking watter from straw sippy cups since they were 6 months, but they refused to accept milk from the same type of cup, we had to get different cups for the milk... We tried several types, but they accepted these , luckily for us, the cheapest ones . Also, while not drinking too much milk, I made sure they had more yogurt and cottage cheese or ricotta cheese, for their calcium intake.

I am sure other people will have more good suggestions for you. Sorry this has been so long, but from my experience, twins are a complex matter . Good luck getting them to stay asleep, and I hope you get some rest also.

 

Thanks for your lengthy reply, Monica!

The boys were 3#5 each at birth, so they were little. They're still fairly small for their adjusted age, but not crazy small. Their growth has remained steady at the same trajectory the whole time. Their doctor has said that they don't need to eat at night, so essentially it's just them waking out of habit and me feeding them on autopilot because I'm too much of a pansy to let them cry. I think some of it comes from being obsessed with feeding them in the early days when they were so little and wanting them to grow grow grow!

They do have a humidifier that provides white noise. They don't have much trouble getting to sleep, and it's quite possible that they would self-soothe if we let them CIO. I was out much of yesterday, and DH was a lot sterner than me for naps, and they settled quickly after they realized he wasn't going to bring them back out or cuddle them. So essentially I just need to be more disciplined.

We've been working on the sippy cups for a while, and they will drink of them if we hold it for them, but they're not crazy about holding them by themselves! They can hold them, but then they just want to fling them around. If you take away the bottle and they won't really take the sippy cup, how do you keep them from getting dehydrated? I guess you just hope that it only takes them a day or so to realize that this is it and they have no choice.

We've been stymied a lot by teething (DS1 has 8, DS2 6) and a couple of head colds, but mostly just my own fear of feeling neglectful if I don't respond. Stupid, I know. It's better for everyone in the long run if we get this worked out.

i think my first step (as you said) should be to get naps REALLY under control, and then deal with one waking at a time. Feed them at midnight then ditch the 4am. Then after that's settled, ditch the midnight. I'm sure they would eat more during the day then, and it would be easier to get them onto the sippy cups at that point because they'll be hungry/thirsty enough to deal with it.

Thanks for the advice and the product suggestions! I'm starting to realize that the first year was the EASY part. LOL!

 

Hi,
WE did much the same with our girls right from the start. BF, wrap (until 6 months, then sleep sacks), a quick cuddle, pacifier, music on, then we went straight out the door! They self settle usually and always have. We have never had help either...... I often do most of it by myself as dh is at work.

I did CIO with dd6 and didn't have much success. Like a pp I haven't had more than 3 or 4 hrs sleep in one go for years!!!!

 

Oh no, I feel so sorry for you! I have to admit I am blessed because my two little ones have been sleeping through the night every since they turned six months. I distinctly recall that one night, they just didn't wake to be fed, and I woke up the next morning feeling like something's wrong because I hadn't slept for 8 hrs straight in six months. From then on, I've been getting AT LEAST 8 hrs of sleep every night (except for when they're down with an infection which keeps them up). They're cutting their teeth now too, so I expect the 'honeymoon' to cease for a little while, but all in all it's been a piece of cake from 6 months on.

 

How old are your little one's now?

 

They're into their 14th month now. Their names are Nina and Anna. It looks like Nina is beginning to have temper tantrums! I thought these came much later. Oh well, I guess the sooner I get the practice the better.

 

Hi Monica, I totally agree it's a good idea to get rid of the bottles. I will try and replace mine with sippy cups, although my two are very used to bottles and drinking through nipples. I also feel a little embarrassed to admit, that mine don't hold their bottles while I'm feeding them formula (twice a day now, in the morning, and at bedtime, at around 10PM). They're so used to us holding the bottles for them that any attempt to change it is met with outright refusal!

 

Hi Feydruss, I recall a friend of mine telling me to expect the kids to be active most when they eat most. Perhaps you're in a viscious circle where their metabolism is skewed toward getting nutrition and processing it for energy in the night rather than the day? But then again, you say they're very active in the day too. Are they napping at all in the daytime?
I can tell you my two absolutely hate(d) the baby carriage. I recall people telling me "You just wait when the winter ends, you put them in the carriage and when they get to sleep, you'll get some rest, will get to relax etc. etc' - yeah right...They screamed bloody murder in the carriage ever since they turned 4 months. Couldn't stand it. My every outing with them was a nightmare. I watched and still watch with envy when mothers with just one baby can take long, peaceful strolls. I never could. But there's an upside to this as claimed by my hubby. He claims that because they would never sleep in the carriage, they found it easy to fall asleep at night because they were so tired. So go figure...

 

My boys won't hold their bottles either, nubira!

Frankly, my kids are usually too busy to eat. I almost have to sneak bites of stuff into their mouths while they're playing! DS1 literally did not nap today at all, awake from 7am-7pm. He was tired, but just refused to sleep. But even at the best of times he never sleeps more than about 30-40 minutes at a time, and he's currently trying to consistently ditch his morning nap (he will also never sleep in the stroller, but will fall asleep in the car). DS2 is much lazier, but also much whinier.

Their sleep at night is improving. I've been doing some CIO for their second "waking" (usually around 4-5am), and it's been working. So I'm only feeding them at around midnight, then not again until 8am. Progress is slow, but steady...

 

Good for you! I empathize with you when it comes to napping. It's the only time during the day you can get any peace, so if they don't nap, or nap for only 40 minutes...ughhh, it's tough. I have always made a point of making sure my two nap at the same time. It doesn't work all of the time, but works most of the time. They will nap for an hour or so.

 

Yeah, I am sad to tell you this, but my kids are 15 months no and they still don't hold their sippy cups of milk. They hold the water ones, but not the milk ones, and also they won't drink milk out of the ones they use for water... So go figure. Also, about naps, Vanessa being such a bad sleeper we stopped making them sleep twice a day after they turned one and her sleep improved. She used to sleep 30 minutes twice a day and she was waking up before Max so we swithced them so both of them sleep in the same time. Now she sleeps about 2 hours at a time, which is better for everybody. Max sleeps well anyway, so we forced him to stay awake until noon, he would sleep 3 hours if we let him, but we wake him up with her as well. Now they wake up at 7ish, they eat at 8, snack at 10, then lunch at 11,30, and in bed around 12. They usually sleep at least until 2, which is a nice break for everybody. At times they sleep 3 hours, but it's rare.


As a side note, Feydruss, I read your blog - you posted your link on another thread. It's hilarious and you have such good advise for long flights. You guys have a lot of courage to travel so much with baby twins, I admire you for that .

 

Thanks, Monica! I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's definitely getting harder to travel with them as they get older, that's for sure!

I did some counting and Milan is only getting about 10hrs of sleep a day, tops. Short of drugging him, I'm not sure how to change that! He's very stubborn.

The boys hold their own sippy cups, but they suck out of them rather than tip them back.

 

I will tell you after worrying about all of the above and also feeling completely inadequate at that age, it all works itself out eventually. i so freaked out at the one yr mark and everything soon fell into place. try not to sweat it too much. your feeding sounds great...they will let you know if they need more or less. unless you have a seriously underweight child, dont worry! one day they eat a ton, the next practically nothing!

oh and i went right to teaching straws and switched sippies cause they couldnt hold or tip right. they will take in a little too much a few times but do get the hang of it pretty quick.

good luck hon!