What is normal 3 year old behavior

My son is such a challenge. Always has been through every phase from little up. I can't even put into words how very strong-willed and stubborn he is. When he has a tantrum over something, trying to follow the typical toddler tantrum advice of just ignoring it is a joke. It doesn't matter if he has an audience or not. When he is mad, he is MAD. You can always see when it's coming, and it's very very hard and takes a ton of patience to curb a tantrum before it starts. I refuse to give in and do what he wants or let him continue his bad behavior that is leading him to a time out. If I warn him he's going in time out if he doesn't stop, he WILL NEVER STOP. It's like he's being challenged now, and he's more mad and not giving in. Then the screaming fit starts. Screaming NO at the top of his lungs, repeatedly. He'll usually stay in time out, but he'll keep up the screaming and stomping his feet. I think this behavior is completely unacceptable for his age. I warn him if he can't stay quiet in time out, he's going in his room. So then of course he always ends up in his room. The screaming and feet pounding, banging on his door gets worse. It's like the worst super nanny tantrum on tv - like he's possessed by the devil and can't control himself. He will do it the ENTIRE time he's in there - 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes. I have never been able to wait until he calms down to go back in. He never ever does on his own. Ever. Then at this point it's like a ritual. I have to sit on his bed to talk to him, in a certain place. I've come to accept quirks like this, where things have to be a certain way. I give in to a point, but I hate feeling like I'm being controlled by a three year old - "sit over there" "stand over there" "look that way (in a certain direction)"...in between his pleading sobs. I usually accept this and do what he wants, so he will calm down and let me talk to him. I sit with him, explain why he was put in time out, what he did to escalate his behavior and end up in his room, how he can act next time he feels that way, etc etc. Then he usually snaps out of it and is ok for awhile. There's no reasoning with him before or during the episode. But after he gets it out of his system, he seems to get it.

So yesterday escalated to another level. It's nothing new, but it doesn't happen as oftne. We were in the middle of tantrum after tantrum and keeping him in his room through it all. (background: His behavior has reached an all time nightmarish level the last week. He was sick with roseola, so I know that's part of it. But the fever has been gone since Friday. And now I think he needs to get his behavior back in check.) Finally my husband said he was just going to get him out of the house. He gave into his demands to get him out of his room, got him some socks and brought him downstairs. My son was still flipping out this whole time. He didn't want the socks. Ok, fine. Go put your sandals on. No, he needed the socks put back in his room. Fine. No, he needed mommy to put the socks back in his room. Fine. No, he needed mommy to put them back in his drawer a certain way and leave the drawer open. Fine. No, then he needed mommy AND daddy to sit with him on his bed at the same time. It was starting to freak me out because he was sooo unbelievably upset through this - like pleading with us to do this for him. Then he started scratching his face - an irritated chapped lip - uncontrollably and couldn't stop. Like a nervous tick or something. I was very worried about him.

He doesn't do this all the time. He goes through phases where he's pretty good most of the time, and then it seems there are weeks and weeks of this h*ll - and then just when my husband and I can't take another second of it, he snaps back and is pretty good again.

His other "thing" is he's a miserable sleeper, which I think triggers this behavior. There are nights he'll get up 3-4 times. And whether or not he goes back to sleep between those episodes, I have no idea. Sometimes he has night terrors, other times it's just tantrums but he's aware (like needing a certain book in his bed at 2 in the morning - which I didn't give in to). I'm wondering if maybe he's not getting enough REM sleep and it's affecting him? We stopped their naps a few weeks back and it actually seemed to help, because he was always waking from them in a tantrum. But since he was sick, we were having him nap again to catch up on his sleep. Yesterday he woke from his nap kicking and screaming before he even opened his eyes. Then you try to sit with him and ask what he needs and everything is NO! so then you go to leave to give him some space and then it's NOOOOOOO!!! full on tantrum. So he gets to control us again. I can't stand this walking on egg shells all the time. I just want my happy boy back.

Does any of this "control" stuff sound normal for his age? Is it that he doesn't have much control over life, so he's trying to instill it where he can - and it's flared by his time outs/tantrums, which I guess makes sense since he's so upset at that poing. But I'm starting to worry it's something worse. I'm calling the dr. today for a child psychologist reference. OCD runs in my family. I've been told before by the pediatrician that he's too young for signs like that to really appear. But what if he's not, and they just normally don't catch it this early because parents don't know about it? I'm second guessing everything now - do I still discipline him for his behavior and back talk - he's testing us all the time! I don't think it's acceptable that he get away with it. But I don't want to make him worse off if there's something else going on. I HATE when I have no idea how to handle something - I guess I must feel like him not being in control.

Thank you if you've made it this far! I just needed to get this out and I don't know what to do. I went from being mad and angry to really really worried about him.

Does this sound like anyone else's 3 year old??

 

My girls aren't quite 3 yet, but both of them have displayed these behaviors, one more than the other actually. I don't have much advice but a couple of things that crossed my mind as we dealt with this. One was definitely sleep. Marley is not a good sleeper and has night terrors at times, etc. However, the better rested she is, the better behaved she is. I know you already know that, so that isnt' much help.

The other thing I've been thinking about lately is the possibility of the last molars coming in. Marley was sick during the 4th of July. Leading up to that day and during the week after she was a NIGHTMARE. A demon. Screaming, crying, thrashing around. Nothing was good enough, done right, done right by the right person only (mommy), etc. It dawned on me to just check around in her mouth and I saw that 2 molars looked like they had just broken through. When ever they rage like that I try to calmly ask them what is wrong and if anything is hurting and if they are tired. More often then not they will admit one or the other thing as going on with them. Actually, I had asked Marley if anything was hurting her before she got sick and she said "My mouth, up". I didn't take it seriously enough at the time because that could have been the culprit last week.

Also, a few months ago at the height of Bailey's epic crazy phase, we were at my mom's and my mother told me that the kids were controlling me and I needed to get more of a handle on it. Bailey would climb inside my skin if I let her, so my mother suggested that when her tantrums started that I not pick her up or let her sit on my lap, etc. until the tantrum subsided. She cried and cried for probably an hour, but afterwards we talked calmly about why she needed to talk to mommy and why screaming made things worse and how I would not pick her up and cuddle until her behavior improved. She totally got it and honestly I can't remember having this kind of issue with her since. Can you figure out what his "thing" is and take it away as a consequence?

I also think that Marley is just a more tempermental and opinionated kid. She knows what she wants and how she wants it. It is absolutely draining, but I hope with age comes some reason with her and we can head the melt downs off at the pass.

Sorry if this rambling doesn't help, but I do understand what you are going through and hope that you find a remedy soon.

 

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this but I strongly recommend having an evaluation done to find out if he could benefit from some sort of therapy. We've had some issues with the OCD, and my ds did go through play therapy to help and it worked wonders. It also really helped me learn how to handle him and which battles to fight and which ones to really help him through.
I totally understand why you're sticking to your rules and not giving in but there are some things that can help. I know with mine it really takes me getting down to his level and talking him through it. Sometimes I have to explain things over and over but after awhile it does seem to work.
Does your family follow a strict routine (eating at the same time, bedtime routine the same every night)? I ask because this really helps my ds. When we stray from the routine things can get hairy but it's nice to have that routine that he feels comfortable with. But I get the frustration. My ds has never had a pajama day, ever. He has to get dressed every single morning at the same time, every single morning. He also has to wear "clothes" no sweats or pj shirts, he also has to put on his shoes.

Anyways. I hope you're able to talk to someone and get some great advice. Have you read "A spirited Child"? I think that's the name... It's a great book and may help.

 

:hug:
3 year olds can be very controlling, they are just discovering that they can be independant and vocal. My son has some of these similiar issues but not to the degree you are speaking of.
I think you've gotten some great advice already and I would echo having him evaluated so maybe he can get help with how to cope when he's going through these fits.
I think maybe you should talk to your pedi.
My son is much like Brigette's, he HAS to get dressed first thing, he HAS to wear his shoes, it HAS to be what he picks out etc...Also, he's very controlling at bed time with where I lay next to him and what blanket I can have...and he throws much bigger more dramatic tantrums then my two girls.
Anyway, I am sorry you are going through this, it has to be so frustrating and stressful.
It's funny you said you just want your happy little boy back, I JUST said this to my son yesterday. :cry:

 

One of my girls really loses it when we deviate from our routine. Its tough because I can't just let her scream it out like her sister (who will scream at the top of her lungs in time out and then 2 minutes later be all smiles). I have to help her get through the transitions by talking to her, preparing her ahead of time, and giving her time to process. Its better now that she is 4, but I still worry how school will be for her in the fall.

One thing that doesn't help her is catering to her every whim especially when she keeps changing her mind. When she gets like this I give her two choices and that is it. There are some moments when I feel like DH and I are just trying to help her push through all this to calm down. When all else fails, I give her her lovey (old bandana hankies that she uses when she sucks her thumb to fall asleep).

 

My twins are only 8 months old so I can't say much regarding that age yet, but I majored in Psychology in college and completed in-home counseling for two years prior to becoming a stay at home mom. I also think it would be a good idea to have him evaluated by someone you trust/have heard great things about if the self-harming behavior continues. But bear in mind this is definitely an age of attempting independence and probably it is just merely that. Great routines really help. Some other things we would attempt with other children are sticker charts (you would be amazed at how well those work if they are designed well and you stick to them), using rewards for positive behaviors (rather just consequences for negative behaviors to encourage good ones), time-outs in accordance to the age of the child, so for his case each time-out should be 3 minutes. That may sound like too small of a time, but there has been a ton of research regarding that and 3 minutes to him is like an hour to us. It sounds like active ignoring is not working. Like you are saying, I am sure sleep is the major factor. It's hard enough for us with lack of sleep much less our little ones.

It sounds like you are doing a good job maintaining your patience and modeling/telling him about good/expected behavior.

I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. It can be extremely stressful and really wear on you. But stay strong and continue to stay calm with him and to get things checked out if you think you need to. Mother's usually have a good intuition about things like that so go with your instinct whatever that may be.

 

I also agree with the two choices thing. You are giving him options so it feels like he is in control but in fact you are in control by giving him those two options.

 

My son is strong willed and likes to have things a certain way. I do agree that in some degree that it's because he wants to control what he can control. For example, he and his sister have the same seats at the kitchen table. They sit in the same spot every day. They put their placemats there and that's where they sit. Well today, for some odd reason, DD decided to finish DS's cereal while sitting in his seat. He FREAKED out. I mean, he lost his mind. Stomping, screaming, yelling, whining, crying. I gave him his cup and told him that he needed some time to get himself together and took him in his room to calm down for 5 minutes. The first two minutes he was banging things around and stomping and then he stopped (I think he tired himself out) and when the 5 minutes was up, I brought him down and he was calmer and by the time, his sister was done and he could have "his seat" back. My two do like to choose their outfits, what toothpaste they are going to use, what socks they are going to wear, and even try to tell me what direction we should drive when we have to go some place.
I think his sleep could be effecting him as well. I think there is no harm in calling a child psychologist for an evaluation. For now, I would continue to be consistent on what kind of behavior you expect from him. Keep us posted! :hug:

 

Denise- you KNEW I'd be checking in... Mine are BOTH like your son. Memories like elephants etc. I swear to God, it's like dealing w/ 14 yr olds. It's HARD.

I do think it's normal tho. UNLUCKY as all get-0ut, but normal. Sigh.

 

Thanks for your reply. It helps so much to hear about other kids who have similar issues. Gives me hope that maybe it is just a phase he will eventually outgrow. The first and second year molars were awful for us! I was just thinking the other day how at least last summer I was able to blame some of his behavior on that. But I can't come up with anything now, other than getting back on track with sleep after an illness. He's always hard, but this week was beyond out of control, scary-hard. Your mom gave good advice too. I should try to take a step back and think about how I'm reacting. He is definitely controlling me at times, and I hate that as much as his tantrums.

 

At what age did you notice the OCD issues in your son and have him evaluated? The part I bolded above is what I really really need! We are on a strict routine and have been from baby up. For my sanity (I'm probably a little like him) and because he doesn't do well when he doesn't know what to expect. I always seem to forget that these worst phases are usually brought on by some change (and especially a change that affects sleep) like a vacation, an illness, a late night, a period of lots of night wakings, etc. I had just hoped that now that he's approaching 3.5 he would start to grow out of it a little. I did read Raising your Spirited Child and loved it!

 

Again, it does really help to hear some of the "controlling" behaviors from other kids his age. It is so sad that at age 3 they can't just be happy with life. They're too young to be having all this stress in their life!

 

I do the choice thing too, and 99% of the time his response is "nuffin" (nothing). He refuses to select one of my choices. Then I choose for him and it's a tantrum all over again. :headbang:

 

Luckily there hasn't been any evidence of self-harming behavior yet. All he does is scream and throw a fit, but he's never hit me or anyone else, or messed up his room at all when I put him in it.

I do try to go out of my way with him to praise him for good behavior. And there usually is a lot of it. Typically these issues would be once a day in the morning, and then he'd snap out of it. But the last week has been most of the day, which is why I'm going crazy. We've had a long-standing sticker chart for his sleep issues, and I think it - among a LOT of other things has helped him improve here. I recently put up a chart with the following goals for each of them:
1)Good behavior/act like a big kid - so if he could work himself out of a tantrum or bad situation before it occurred, if he can respond to a difficult situation without going into whiney-mode, if he can let things that aren't a big deal roll off his shoulders, etc.
2) Being a good listener - the 1st time I ask them to do something
3) Clean up after themselves
I set it up weekly and then have goals like go out for pizza, go on a bike ride to get ice cream, etc as rewards at the end of the week. I've been really happy with it. Of course it hasn't been all that effective this week and I've been really stretching looking for reasons to give them out!

Time outs for a specific offense always start at 3 minutes in the time out spot. His problem is the tantrum he throws once he gets there. I'll often give him several opportunities to calm down while I reset the timer. But he usually can't do it. I tell him if he can't do it, then he needs to go in his room to calm down. And that's where he usually ends up. I also need that time to just get away from him. When he's in his room I don't have a set time that I go back for him. It depends on how he's acting, and how I'm feeling as far as being able to deal with it. Prior to this week the break that I would give him (even though he would scream the whole time) would be enough. Once I came back in he'd be ready to settle down and talk to me. This week was when he'd go crazy and not want to talk, but wouldn't want me to leave, and would scream these outlandish requests about things being a certain way. I really really hope it's just that he needs to get back on track. I don't want to jinx it, but today so far he has been great - much like his old self. But I still don't want to drop the issue, like I've usually done in the past. I will definitely pursue with the pedi.

 

We've had the exact same scenario occur here!

 

I don't know how you do it with 2 like this! I would never survive!!

 

Hi - this is definitely difficult and hopefully you are able to get out a bit without the kids to give yourself a break! My brother's child is very similar and I do agree with getting him evaluated just to get some outside opinions and thoughts/advice. What has worked for my nephew is: during the bed time routine spend some one on one time cuddling with him and during this time talk through what he did well during the day, and then talk about what things upset him. Sometimes when a child is upset they can't talk about it during the time or even just after but will open up later when they are calm. Reassure him that it is ok to be upset and feel sad and show that he can talk to you about it. It is shocking to me how much kids understand and how they can communicate their feelings at such a young age.
Also, they worked on identifying feelings when things were calm. Asking how someone on tv is feeling by how they look or act, then how they are feeling. Drawing pictures of happy, sad, scared faces. Telling them how you are feeling. sometimes it helps if they can identify it and say "I'm sad" or "I'm scared" or best "I'm HAPPY!"
I'm also surprised often by how grumpy and irritable my kids can be when they are not feeling well. Maybe a quick check up at the Dr's might not hurt. An ear infection can cause sleep disturbances and real irritation.
Last, I agree with everyone's thoughts on choices. When they are calm and it is not connected to a temper tantrum I try to give my kids the opportunity to choose things "do you want toast or cereal for breakfast?" these shoes or those ones? And I also like to ask their opinion on things - makes them feel important.

Good luck. Hope things improve.

 

I'm sorry Denise I was referring to self-harming as when he was scratching his face, but you must have meant it differently in your post. Must've been doing it since it was irritated already. My bad about that Must be the severe lack of sleep. ha

 

Oh yeah, he has a very irritated lip he keeps making worse. he's also had really itchy eyes lately, maybe allergies, maybe part of the illness. But it seems he's extra sensitive to it when he's upset/overtired/crabby. He won't stop rubbing them, and then he gets mad that they're still itchy so he scratches harder. But it was borderline scary this time because it just seemed like a nervous thing and he couldn't stop rubbing his face, like he was ultra-sensitive to it because he was just so upset with everything.