PT nightmare

I hope to God someone can help me, I am more at the end of my rope than at any time since I brought the boys home from the hospital. I did the 3 day potty training method; the first 3 days were absolutely hellacious. My house resembled the Astrodome post-Katrina: human waste covered most of the surfaces and all the toilets were plugged. I thought we would give up, but my nanny persevered on the 4th day and beyond, and things rapidly improved. Both of the boys are pretty much day-trained; there are a few accidents here and there (mostly poop), but they're getting fewer and fewer.

The real problem is night-time. Nate is only about 50% night-trained, and wakes up wet about 1/2 the time. This is not a huge deal; I have disposable pads over their mattresses, and everything else is washable (including Nate).

Jack is just about 100% night-trained.....once we get him down. He will pee on the potty several times before bed, but repeatedly cries "I have to go pee" when we're trying to put them down. We put him on the potty every time he asks, but most of the time he doesn't go, and screams "I'm not done" if we try to get him down. If we leave the room and tell him to let us know when he's done, he will immediately say he's done, then ask to go again the minute he's back in bed. The worst part is he will often force one or two drops of pee into his underpants *before* asking to go potty, then cries he is wet. We've tried everything, and are trying to be positive, but bedtime has been delayed 2-3 hours every night and he is wetting himself up to 20 times per evening. He is obviously delaying bedtime and is deliberately wetting himself, but gets honestly distraught when he is wet.

Tonight, he started up again, and I really tried to be nice about it, but after about 20 times asking to go pee (and us putting him on with no results) and after about the 5th time he wet his underpants, I put him down and he looked me in the eye, then peed on his pillow. I lost it, grabbed the pillow, threw it in the trash, and told him that the Tidmouth Sheds I just bought them (as a gift for PT) was going back to the store because he couldn't stay dry. I know, this is the worst parenting thing I have ever done, and I feel about as low as I can get. But I am so flippin' sleep-deprived and miserable; last night we were up at least 5 times with "I gotta go pee" and no results, and I'm dying. This is the worst I've felt since the boys were newborns.

If anyone has any suggestions that are better than the threats and humiliation I just resorted to, I'd really appreciate it. :cry: :help:

 

:hug: :hug: :hug:

Don't beat yourself up! We've all had those moments!

Honestly, they are pretty young - and I'm a wimpy potty-trainer, I guess - but I'd put the one who is 50% potty-trained back in a pull-up or diaper for bedtime so you don't have to mess with changing sheets all.of.the.time. Our 3.5 year olds just potty-trained a few weeks ago and I still put them in diapers at bedtime. Finley has been dry for about 8 nights in a row, he doesn't pee while he sleeps, I just put it on him "just in case". Sullivan is dry about 80% of the time and he wears a diaper at night, too.

As for the constant peeing for 3-5 hours and the behavioral issues that has caused (bedtime delaying, tantrums - and most importantly, your sanity!), I would give him 1 or 2 extra pairs of underwear in a small basket in his bed and I would also give him a diaper/pull-up. I would then give him 1 or 2 or 3 photos of a toilet (maybe even velcro them to his bed or something). I would explain that he'll have 2 chances once he gets into bed to ask to get out of bed to pee and each time he gets out of bed to pee, he hands you a toilet photo, once the toilet photos are gone, he's done getting out of bed to pee. He'd also get as many chances to change underwear as there was underwear in his bed - once he ran out of underwear, I'd put him in the diaper/pull-up.

I have just never considered night-training a big deal, so I wouldn't stress it personally. :hug: No need to add any more stress to the situation! In my opinion, kids will stay dry through the night when their bodies are ready. My (almost) 7 year old still needs to wear a pull-up at night and my youngest two are dry most of the time, I've done nothing different with any of them - the younger guys' bodies are just ready and able to hold it all night long.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

 

:hug: Valerie - don't beat yourself up! We've all had those moments. I would have done the same thing in your situation.

I'm guessing that you're already incorporating a potty trip into their bedtime routine? I've had some success with the girls by telling them during that trip that they have to get all their pee out because they won't be allowed to go to the potty again until the timer beeps (we set it for an hour if they pee, 30 minutes if they don't). If they're still awake when the timer beeps, we do another potty trip and repeat.

Also, we cheat - the girls are in "special princess bed time panties" (pull-ups) at night. I was hesitant to try this as I've heard for some kids it can really confuse them, but my girls seem to do okay (ie they don't hold all day so they can pee in their pull-ups at bedtime). Also, if anyone refers to them as diapers, they quite adamantly correct them. :laughing: They do sometimes wake at night to go potty, but not always, and when they forget or sleep through their signals, then they aren't woken from being soaking wet. When they're consistently dry in the mornings, we'll try real panties at night.

You could try the opposite (if he really likes wearing undies & doesn't want to be in a diaper/pull-up) by letting him know that if he wets his undies, then he has to wear a diaper/pull-up for the rest of that night.

Sometimes, in our house, I have to send DH in (either when the girls have pushed my last button or when they just seem to be tuning me out completely). The girls will often behave better for him since they've been hearing me jabber at & correct them all day, where as they usually haven't seen much of DH before having to go to bed.

Hang in there! You'll find the right solution. :hug:

 

My guys have been day trained for about 4 months now and just recently started showing signs of being ready for night training. I wouldn't stress it, they wear pull ups to bed (and sometimes nap) and are not confused at all during the day about it. I agree its just when their bodies are ready for it, just concentrate on the day for now

 

:hug: :hug: :hug:

Do NOT beat yourself up!!! I would have done the same thing! In fact...I was pretty close today with their puzzles(even grabbed the trash bag...) and yelled and yelled to no avail. And of course I feel awful, but I digress....


We did the 3 day as well. I vividly remember the stalling at bedtime. Drove.me.NUTS. However, we didn't have the same issues with the peeing in the pants. I really liked Jori's idea of making up a chart of some sorts, with the pictures/velcro and those are his chances at using the potty. I think that's a great idea. I personally would start there first.

How long have you been pt'ing for? I know for us-it took us a full two weeks to be done. I remember the night time stalling was at least as long as well. I remember coming here and people telling me the stalling was a phase-and it was! Thankfully! I'm going to assume you limit liquid intake before bed as well? I know that made a difference also.

Is there something you can reward Nate with that Jack would really be interested in?

And if you have to, don't feel bad for having to put pull-ups on him. Whatever works for you-and for him is what matters most. :hug:

 

Honestly, I think people worry too much about night-training. In my limited experience, it has happened when it happened and when they were just "ready".

I would keep up with the day-training. I put mine in pull-ups for bed. They got a chance to go before bed. They got one chance if they decided they needed to get up and go. And if they wanted to play the get out of bed game, their dolls would start with mommy. Because those dolls can't sleep if you won't stay in your bed with them.

We had a star chart and if their pull-ups were dry 7 days in a row, then they could try underwear at bed. For Timothy, it was literally like one day a switch went off and he stayed dry at night. He was much harder to day train, but night was that easy. Sarah ended up having some night regression due to kidney issues, but she could consistently stay dry for 3-6 months at night. And then she would just start wetting during sleep again. And we just did the same 7 dry nights to get out of pull-up. And then she would be dry for 3-6 months. But she has underlying kidney issues. Now that she's older and we both understand her kidney issues better she stays dry at night.

Marissa

 

This might be a crazy suggestion but take it for what it's worth....If you think he is just doing it deliberately delay bedtime and it's like a control thing maybe you could do this: Put the potty on a towel in his room sort of close to his bed. Do the regular bedtime routine and then leave. If he has to use the potty...it's right there and he can be a big boy and use it if he needs to. He can wipe his hands on a wipe and go back to bed.

My oldest daughter used to be awful, awful at bedtime and during the night with going to bed and with settling back in when she woke up. She would want to go to the bathroom and she would make us jump through hoops and she would throw temper-tantrums about all sorts of things at bedtime and the middle of the night. I actually went to the pediatrician about it because I was at the end of my rope. His advice was to "remove the audience" and the "audience" was me. It took a couple of days but when I didn't get sucked into the whole thing she just gave up and went to bed. If you think he has the ability to go potty himself, it might be worth a try. He will learn that it will not delay bedtime any longer. In some ways, it's a bit of a risky move, if you think he could potentially make a big mess...you'll have to be the judge of that. But it might just do the trick. You could say, "You are such a big boy now that if you need to use the potty..it's right there ..good night! See you in the morning!" It might just end the control battle???

We did keep the potty in my older daughter's room when she was little because we didn't want her to have access to the bathroom in the middle of the night, etc. It worked out fine. Now, with my twins, I'm not so sure I'll be able to do that......they could really get into a lot of trouble because they are a lot more mischievous. Every kid is different I suppose.

Good luck!!! It's amazing how much stress a 2 year old can stir up!!!!!!!! I'm right in the middle of the terrible twos times two myself. It is NOT easy!

Shannon

 

That is pretty early for staying dry at night. The potty trips to delay bedtime may happen no matter what (they did for us, even though our kids were in pullups), but at least you wouldn't be changing sheets all the time.

Our rule is dry pullups for 7 nights in a row before you get to wear underwear at night. Amy miraculously started staying dry at age 4.5 -- Sarah still isn't there (she rarely has even one dry pullup).

I also wouldn't want a child in underwear who isn't able to go potty by him/herself at night. Just too much trouble in my opinion, but then I was a slacker about day training too. :ibiggrin:

 

Me too! I love meeting other PTing slackers! :lol:

 

:hug: Valerie! I think we've all been there over one parenting issue or another!
I agree with PP's, there is no harm in putting both of the boys back in pull ups. You can tell them that it's their special nighttime underwear and that their goal is try to keep them dry but don't make a big deal about it if they don't. I would take them to the potty 2x before bed and say this is the chance to get it all out if you can and I would also put their little potties in their bedroom and say if you wake in the middle of the night and have to go, here are your little potties. I would have put my DS in pull ups for night but he was one of those kids that would hold his pee and poo until he got a pull up and if you don't have that worry about, then I would go with pull ups at night. You all deserve good sleep!
I do believe that kids night time train in their own time, some do it fairly quickly after being day trained (like my DD) and some don't (my DS).

 

:hug: don't beat yourself up.

I was another slacker pt'er. I like the suggestion of putting a potty in their room and then bedtime is bedtime. If they need to pee after that, they use the little potty and out themselves back to bed. And then if they start playing in there or worse, with the potty, time outs (for them or toys). :hug:

Also you might want to get some pull ups for night time. One of my girls day and night trained at the same time (without us doing anything to teach her), but the other needed pull ups for awhile before she could stay dry all night.

 

First of all, thank you so much, each and every one of you, for responding so quickly! I was floored when I saw how many people had posted when I got up this morning. You guys are the best!!! :grouphug:

I think this is an excellent idea!! I think he really wants to get all the pee out, but he needs to understand that he only gets a limited amount of chances before it's time to stinkin' go to sleep!!

This is another good idea. I hate to "deny" Jack the opportunity to pee, but it's really becoming a behavioral issue (*not* a bladder control issue) at this point.

Saturday will be 4 weeks. They've made great strides, and this is the last major issue. We do limit liquids, but we call Jack "iron bladder". He can hold it for 15 hours, yet force 1 drop of pee out 247 times in a row *after* peeing in the potty. I've never seen anything like it!! :shok: I really hope you're right about this being a phase; I just want to do everything I can *not* to encourage it!!

I think you're right about the "audience". DH tried walking out while he's on the potty and telling Jack to let us know when he's done. This curbed the behavior for exactly one night, but last night he was saying "all done", then "gotta pee again" the second we put him back in bed. :gah: This little guy has our number!! The problem is, the boys are still in cribs, so I can't leave a potty in their room. I could transition them to big-boy beds, but now I'm afraid to throw them any more curveballs; we're getting little enough sleep already!

Ha! :lol: I would totally be a slacker too, except that we got the last 2 slots in the local preschool for Sept. and I really want them to go (they have to be fully PT to stay in the program). The nanny is great, but I feel like they're craving more socialization and would really benefit from getting out of their comfort zone, intellectually and emotionally.

I got the 3 day ebook, fully intending to try and fail at night, and go back to pullups. But I figured I'd give the method a try, and I was very surprised when Jack started staying dry at night after the first 2 nights! He is obviously ready to stay dry at night. In the last 3 weeks, he's only woken up wet once. If I ask him if he wants a diaper/pullup, he will say "yes", but I don't want to go that route because he obviously is capable of staying dry all night, and he will hold it until he has the pullup on (night 4 we caved, and he held it all day then peed through 5 pullups ).

Nate I would totally do pullups for, but if I ask him if he wants them, he gets upset and wants underpants. I'm willing to deal with him waking up wet 1/2 the time if he is. ardon: He is getting better about asking to go in the middle of the night; he's just a really deep sleeper and has a hard time waking. I don't want to "punish" him with a pullup (since he *really* wants underpants), so I'm okay with this.

Again, thanks so much for the reassurance and suggestions. I'm going to try the underpants and/or timer suggestions and see if that helps.

This is a really hard time for me, because I'm usually pretty confident about my parenting style, and usually manage to keep my cool in front of them (I have a HUGE temper problem, so this is a big deal for me). Last night I drop-kicked Jack's pillow out of his room, across the landing and halfway down the stairs. :blush:

Now I have to figure out what to do with Tidmouth Sheds, since I put it back in the box and told the boys they couldn't have it since Jack was peeing in his bed. :unsure:

 

ITA. I've got one who *just* night trained at 5 years, 11 months. The other is still in pull-ups at night and doesn't seem ready at all. When they were newly day-trained, we'd allow two trips to the bathroom, and that was it. But then again, I didn't really stress because they were in pull-ups.
Honestly, I just can't take high-pressure potty training. The three-day method sounds like absolute hell to me. Mine trained nearly a year apart, one at 2.5, one at 3.5. Everyone's ready at different times.
Don't make it a struggle. I forget where I read it, but the two things kids can control and drive their parents nuts about are what goes in and what goes out of their bodies.

 

We have ours basically day trained. Jack is like 95% and Anna is 100%. We still do pull ups at night and will until they are consistently dry overnight. They are often and wake up asking to go potty. But I don't want the headache of accidents and stress to them.

 

Like the other poster I think night training is a development stage rather than a behaviour stage. Kids are all different when it comes to staying dry at night especially when you have heavy or light sleepers, continuous wakers or other influences. I haven't 'trained' my older three at night. We did potty training through the day and just put on a nappy at night. When they were ready that just started taking their nappies off at night. I would come in in the morning and they would be dry and the nappy would be by the bed. It was completely lead by them and it worked a charm. We have only had two wet beds from any of them, and they were sick at the time. If you really don't have to have them night trained just let it be for a while. As for the stalling bedtime behaviour...if it isn't the potty, it would be something else. Have a set routine and just walk out. They will learn eventually that they will not recieve attention once the routine is finished. Good luck.

 

This is precisely why my ds # 1 is the only child we have that I ever tried to potty train, the other 4 I let do it on their own. They were all in diapers until 3.5 ( ds #2 a little longer) at that time they wanted to be trained and the only frustration we had are those darn automatic flushing toilets at the stores that scared them.

 

:hug:

I wish I had a wonderful suggestion. We've had pretty good luck with potty training around here, but the delaying bedtime has been just atrocious, so I can definitely relate to it from that angle. For over a year it has taken us 1-2 hours to get the boys to bed. They even have scars on their faces from where they go gladiator on each other.

The sleep deprivation and the battle is a killer, and FWIW, I don't think what you did was wrong at all. If he's gonna pee on his pillow then he doesn't need his pillow or his Thomas toy.

 

My mother says kids aren't truly potty trained until they're about 10 and you don't ever have to remind them anything at all about using the toilet. But even my teenager sometimes ends up doing a bit of a potty dance, LOL.

I don't see why it matters if they are night trained at a preschool. If they don't have accidents at all during the day (even for naps), what business is it of the preschool if they need pullups at night? I agree that it's much more a developmental milestone than a willful thing. And kids that age will use anything to delay going to bed. If it's not PTing, it'll be a drink of water, they forgot to kiss Daddy, they need to hug the cat, whatever... 49 times. So that's a patience-tester! But IMO no need to also get up with them all night. If they can't do it on their own, they're not ready (& I'm not ready). My kids have gone about 1/2 and 1/2 as to being potty trained first at night or day. Some were dry all night long before mastering day time stuff. And I have a 5 year old who just stopped wearing pullups at night about 3 weeks ago.

 

Thanks Rachel.

Ha, that's funny, because I define "potty trained" as being when a kid can go to the bathroom by themselves with no adult intervention, pull down their pants, go to the bathroom, wipe thoroughly, re-dress themselves, flush, wash hands and go about their business. I think 10 sounds about right!

The preschool doesn't care about night-time training, and really this is not a night-training issue. This is about Jack being fully developmentally ready to day train, then deliberately peeing his pants for attention and to delay bedtime.

FYI, I used a combo of Jori and Rachel's suggestions. I gave Jack 2 chances to go potty after we put him down, and 2 pairs of underwear before he had go into a pullup. Since Nate won't always tell me when he has to go, I also went back in 15 minutes after Jack's 2 chances (letting him know what we were doing) and had them try again. Wouldn't you know it, I think we have this problem licked! The first night Jack asked to go twice, and peed one drop in his underwear. I told him how it was going to be, and he cried A LOT, but eventually went back to sleep and stayed dry all night. The second night, 2 trips to the potty, and another 15 minutes later, with no wet underpants. Tonight, just 1 extra trip, and he's asleep right now!!!

Thanks again for all the feedback and the great suggestions. I guess I just needed "permission" to tell him "no". This is usually not a problem for me but PT has me second-guessing all of my parenting ideas for some reason.