Awesome article

I agree with that. I think it is a minority, even in this thread. The problem is that the minority voice is the one that people end up responding to and associating with the larger message. Which is why I think that minority voice can be harmful in certain forums (understanding that sometimes extreme positions are useful in advancing an issue to a desired, reasonable mid point).

 

A big factor in my hatred of breastfeeding was supplementing. We ended up supplementing early on because in the middle of the night a nurse told me Anna was crying because she was hungry and we needed to give her formula. So then we were on this horrible worst of both worlds roller coaster with no hope of getting off it. And I thought I was educated going in. So I definitely think those kinds of messages are detrimental to women and their choices. In fairness, I hated everything about BFing and pumping, so I probably wouldn't have kept at it long term regardless, but the supplementing/supply issue didn't help.

 

I hated BFing/pumping too. I felt obligated to do it until I went back to work, but to be honest, I would have been much happier not doing it at all. Plus they had withdrawal symptoms from some of the medicines I was on (that they weren't supposed to have), A had terrible reflux that the AR formulas didn't help, and it was just an ugly scene. Would it have gotten better? Maybe. Maybe not.

If I had done formula from day one, I think they would be in the same exact place they are now, but it would have been easier on me. If I ever get pregnant again, I won't even try to BF or pump.

 

I completely agree with this point - I was under the impression we were speaking of the First world -

 

I tell you Bex; IMO it's one of those things that shouldn't be judged based on just a few weeks. Formula maybe be a little easier for an inexperienced Mom within the first few weeks, especially for a Mom of multiples or preemies, but I can say in my own personal experience nursing a baby was much easier than bottle feeding a baby in second half of the first year. My boys stopped around 8 and 9 months, so I was pumping and giving formula. By 11.5 months they got all formula since I was drying up from the pumping. I was always having to prepare bottles and take ice packs everywhere we went with the boys; then, I had to wash all of it when I was done. It definitely took more time than breastfeeding during that time frame, during the beginning I think formula took less time. With Lena, it's like grab and go. I never worry about ice, I never worry about running out of boobs .

And the money is a huge factor for me. We spent $250 a month (just for formula for the boys in the one month that they got mostly formula. That would have added up to $2500 a year for the twins (I probably would have switched to the generic brand instead of that expensive a$$ similac, so maybe it would have been less.). I know when my DH lost his job; I was really relieved to be nursing. Yes, we could have gotten WIC to pay for baby formula, but because I was nursing Lena, WIC paid her to have jarred baby food and I was covered under WIC as well.
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It's all sort of interrelated. I was reading something about formula companies having to figure out how to make money since more women are nursing these days. So they have done that in two major ways. Jacking up the price (I guess it's rising much faster than inflation) and expanding into new markets (e.g. poor and developing countries).

 

See this is why I think prejudice and stereotyping is a big issue that we have to address, and while a lot of FF Moms feel hurt or judged when they hear people say something like "why don't people even try," I think many of us who breastfeed or advocate breastfeeding feel hurt or judged when people take the statements of a few to represent the entire group (and especially when people subsequently write off the group or their position). Isn't this the essence of what prejudice and stereotyping are?

I don't think you can judge an entire group based a few people, and people tend to do that when they have preconceived notions about that group. Just like there are women who are bad drivers, blacks who are athletic, Asians who are math whizzes, and gay men who are very feminine, there are women who breastfeed and feel they are superior, but these are all prejudices and stereotypes, and we should try more to approach things without letting the stereotype cloud our judgment.

ETA: And I totally agree with you on the last sentence.

 

Believe me, I understand how much formula cost, and Alice couldn't be on a generic formula. It was a hard decision: Do I poison them with my medicines, do I stop taking my medicines and have the potential for me killing them but hey, they'll have good breastmilk, or do I give them formula and get the hormones out of my body asap so I can focus on getting myself better, like I was before I was pregnant? Major depression sucks. Having newborn twins with major depression sucks. Not enjoying anything about babies and having two sucks.

At any rate, I made the best decision for me. It was hard, there were days we didn't have formula and I had to go to the doctor's office to get a few cans, but they were no longer taking antidepressants (and they had a major withdrawal process so when I went through the withdrawal process myself, I realized how terrible it must have been for them and do not regret my decision one bit.)

And I wouldn't do it now because I associate it with the horrible time I had when they were infants. (Plus they're already very soft H cups and smothering is a possibility according to the LLC person.)

 

I agree Rachel. It's not fair to judge the group by a few. I try to point out how much I appreciate the supportive comments like Rachel's (missbossy), and I know she's not the only one. I know most of your hearts are in the right place. I can only express how I would have felt as a new mom reading some of the comments on this thread.

 

While I do live in the developing world, I move in both worlds. I think breastfeeding is a health issue all over the world and I think from what she said above Rachel does too. Allergies are a growing problem in the US--food allergies are changing life in public schools all over the US and we don't know why they are on the rise--but there are indications that breastfeeding offers some protection from them. More studies need to be done on that. Obesity is a critical problem in the US--and here in Mexico where I live. There are also indications that not breastfeeding can combine with other factors to make children more likely to have obesity problems. The human organism is too complicated for us to find one sole for most of our major health problems. The answers to the problems of cancers, obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and other health issues are likely to be multipronged. I feel that breastfeeding needs to be promotes as an integral part of a healthy lifestyle (for baby and mom). And part of doing that is the language we use. (ie, not saying artificial baby milk is just as good. But saying it's an acceptable second choice.)

Amen to that! And it's not just new moms and preemies. The first 8 weeks with my singlton were hell on me. I cringed at the thought of putting him to my breast. But now I'm still happily feeding my 15 month old. My twins got three bottles of formula a day. Going out was crazy. A stainless steal thermos of boiling hot water (I couldn't count on restuarants having a way to heat water clean water for me), bottles half filled with cold water to bring the piping hot water down to drinking temp, and powdered formula. In addition to diapers, changes of clothes, a giant stroller, etc. It was like packing for a weekend away if we were ever going to be gone for more than a couple of hours. Breastfeeding Drex has been so much easier. But if I hadn't known that the intial pain I suffered while feeding him was going to go away, I probably wouldn't have made it past the first two months. But I'm so glad I did.

 

I wanted to repost this because it's so good. I also wanted to add that being a lactavist to most people is trying to accomplish the above and change support for women who are breastfeeding or desire to breastfeed (for any length of time). It's really never about trying to convince people to breastfeed (for me) or heaping guilt over formula use. Honestly, most of the women I have met who are outspoken lactavists have supplemented with formula and that's why it's an important issue to them. I can't imagine looking down on someone for using formula as I used plenty of it myself and was very grateful for its existence when I needed it. Needing a prescription would have been a nightmare since my first formula run was in the middle of the night.

 

actually Melissa - studies show that food allergies are on the rise due to overcleanliness - we had a long discussion in our Microbiology class last semester that the overuse of hand sanitizers and the inability to allow kids get dirty and germy is the largest cause of food allergies (mostly peanut) - which is why you don't see many 3rd world countries (such as the very poor and malnourished parts of Africa) have hardly any instance of peanut allergies...

 

The "hygiene hypothesis" is only one of the possible reasons food allergies are increasing. Others include genetically modified foods (which formula would be considered), increased vaccinations (I am still pro-vax!), genetics, and eating highly allergenic foods during pregnancy. Just so you don't think I believe all food allergies come from formula, I would like to take this time to point out that I have issues with dairy (I was 100% BFed) and seem to have passed this along to both of my children. My formula supplemented child doesn't have any worse issues than her brother. In fact, it was because of her issues that I struggled with BFing, so it couldn't have been caused by formula. I think it is a combination of my Native American genes (seems to run in my family, we're about 25% Cherokee) and possibly exposure during pregnancy.

My thoughts on formula being a genetically modified food are exactly the same as every other food. I try to feed my kids as healthy as possible, but I'm not perfect. I don't beat myself (or others) up on falling short, but I do keep striving to keep our diet as whole food and natural as possible because I know how great of an impact this has on our (specifically us) health. It's an important thing for me. I don't expect it to be important for everyone but I do hope that healthier foods are increasingly more available to people including breastmilk.

 

Even if they are "low" as you call them, 1.5 MILLION babys die each year because they aren't breastfed. Thats a pretty big number for something with a simple fix.

I disagree, it is harmful to babies especially when parents incorrectly mix the formula, or fail to boil the water as you are supposed to do for each and every bottle prepared. Formula is not sterile. Ive never seen breastmilk get recalled. Have you?

You shouldn't believe everything you read. Formula companies make a KILLING by convincing people its just as good as breastmilk when its not.


Have you seen THIS PICTURE ? SInce all of us here have twins, this really hit home for me.

 

Pardon me? I am fairly well educated and able to discern what information is right and wrong. That picture is horrible, beyond awful. But you also don't know the entire history of that family and whether that's the exception or the rule. We don't know that poor little girl's medical history or whether the mother was neglecting her in other ways. Why didn't she try some other kind of feeding or seek treatment when the girl was not growing? We just don't know. There could be other factors at work such as being a twin girl in a society where girls are undervalued. While it makes a point about formula feeding, there may be more to the story than we understand and until we do then it's just a tool for propaganda.

My point was mostly about the first world. I agree that there are serious problems with formula in under developed countries. Providing clean access to water should be a major priority not only for infants, but for toddlers and young children as well who are just as likely to contract gastroenteritis from an unclean water supply. I don't see that as only an infant formula issue though; that's a general public health crisis for many many countries around the world.

As for the actual safety of formula itself; I know that there have been recalls but on the whole they are rare. Our entire food system needs to be overhauled to ensure that everyone, not just infants, are provided safe and clean food. IMO, it's inexcusable that anything makes it to market that is contaminated because of bad practices or the desire for profit. But on the whole, most people in the developed world have a pretty reliable and clean access to food. Most of us go through our day to day existence eating enough nutritious and healthy things that we can survive and thrive. Formula is not an exception to that; the majority of formula fed kids do just fine. No one here has really argued that formula is healthier than breastmilk, just that it's a viable alternative because there aren't other options.

If used properly, formula is safe. Most people who visit this site know how to read a can and prepare a bottle of formula properly when they have to. New mothers in crisis should not be made to feel guilty because they have to rely on formula to provide nutrition to their child. As mentioned upthread, formula makes some of us better mothers because we're not struggling with physical and emotional exhaustion to keep up supply. Yeah, in a perfect world wet nurses and milk banks would be widely available, but they aren't yet. So what to do in the meantime? Advocate breastfeeding, promote societal change around the attitude toward breastfeeding and support mothers through it. But don't shame and condemn people for using formula. Guilting people and your alarmist attitude will never get your message across.

 

This is my problem. When you make up or inflame facts to make a point. It is not necessary to boil water for every bottle of formula. Babies do not die because they aren't BF. They die because they aren't fed.

 

Jess, you need to figure out a better way to make your point. Formula is "deadly" in the same way a cheeseburger is "deadly." It's all about mortality rates. I'm not sure where the 1.5 million figure comes from; world wide, it's probably fairly accurate, and yes all things being equal formula does raise mortality, but it's marginal even those in the aggregate the numbers can look pretty high. If there are 500,000,000 babies born each year, then 1.5 million is less than 1%.

 

It's interesting that you say this, especially on a twin website. I am not sure if you are aware that there are quite a few of us who have breastfed one of our twins and formula fed the other. I remember at least 3 other women on this board doing that when I first started looking at the forum. I remember thinking, how do you choose which one? But as it turns out, you usually don't. Circumstances choose for you.

Jess, I appreciate that you are passionate about breastfeeding, but you come across abrasively when you talk like this. The fact is that formula does exist because there is a need and demand for it. It is a viable alternative to breastmilk. Promoting breastfeeding isn't about scaring women into not using formula, it's providing the support they need to breastfeed as much or as little as they desire. There's so much more to raising healthy children than breastfeeding. As many women have pointed out on this thread alone, mental health is one of them. If you manage to guilt a woman into breastfeeding when she really doesn't want to, how do you think that will affect her parenting? Will it help her be a better parent? Probably not.

 

I have stayed out of this discussion up until now, although it has been an interesting read. But, I have to say, that picture is just inflammatory. I feel horrible for that baby, but it isn't about breastmilk vs formula, it is about boy vs girl. You can see how she is actually holding the boy as she feeds him, her other arm just hangs to the side & the little girl and her bottle are completely unsupported & I think she obviously looks neglected. The baby didn't die because she was formula fed, she most likely died because no one bothered to feed her properly at all.

 

Trying to insert a photo, but I am terrible at it. If it shows up, my 60% formula fed baby is on the left and my 100% breastfed baby is on the right. Just for comparison.

http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp286/kgwife/0423011037.jpg

 

Actually you're a little off; obviously not feeding babies is deadly, but the lowered risk of gastroenteritis is so great that many babies really are saved by breastfeeding. It's probably a very small number in places like the US or Canada, but it's a pretty big number in poor countries, and I'm guessing that's where the 1.5 million figure comes from.

The infant mortality rate in some countries is about 250 out of a 1000, so 1 out of 5 babies dies in the first year of life, and it's been a few years since I read the data, but 30% of those babies die from diarrhea. Infant mortality is one of the biggest killers in the developing world because, for obvious reasons, infants are much more vulnerable than older children and nonelderly adults.

Furthermore, as I mentioned previously you still have the malnutrition problem with formula in the developing world as well. (ETA-some) Some women cannot afford to feed their kids formula. We all know how expensive it is; imagine people living on just $1000 a year and trying to pay for infant formula. Actually that happens in the US as well, even though it is more rare. The last time I went to the WIC office, there was a mother there feeding a baby, who appeared to be less than a month old, water. The baby was crying for a good hour, rooting all over the place. I tried to ask her if she needed formula, but she didn't speak English, and finally, I found a guy to translate. She didn't have formula, which was of course part of the reason she was at the WIC office. I tried to find someone who had some formula to give her. I have no idea if she was too poor to afford it, to ashamed to nurse her infant in that public setting or what the deal was, but I can imagine that it is not unheard of for babies in this sountry to have seriously nutrition problems. I grew up in very poor rural southern Ohio, and I actually had a neighbor whose infant was malnourished and hospitalized because she was giving him nondairy creamer as a substitute for baby formula. There was also a case in Florida from a few years ago:

Now we probably could dredge up a few stories of malnourished breastfed infant as well, and I would agree that we need to have better parent and nutrition related education in this country (and around the world) for everyone.

I understand why so many of us on this board relate this issue to one of personal choices, convenience, and mental health, and the vast majority of us are on this site are middle class women from wealthy nations, and having that privilege affords us the luxury of convenience, a greater amount of education (although in this case an inadequate amount of edu), and many more choices than poorer women in our own countries and in developing countries. It's particularly frustrating to me that the initiation rates of breastfeeding are so low for poor women (and in particular poor African American women), but when you look at the "choices" they have, working in low paying jobs and trying to support themselves and their kids often as single mothers, you realize how much difference a good support system combined with accurate information can make a difference.

 

Jen, I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I promise, I think you pointed this out up thread, but if we took that bolded and italicized sentence and turned it around like this:

Don't you think that would go over like a fart in church on this website. It's totally unacceptable to many to say breastfeeding made me a better mother. I think it helped build my confidence as a mother that I was able to feed the boys in spite of all of the social messages against nursing twins, and I don't think it would be well accepted or tolerated by a lot of women, which is really unfortunate. Because we should really be tolerant of both messages.

And the last bolded part I agree; hyperbole doesn't work.

 

I totally get your point about breastfeeding vs. formula feeding in that sentence, and I agree that the language that we use tends to defend formula feeding and downplay the accomplishment of breastfeeding. It's a shame that I never felt that I could talk openly about bf'ing with people around me, but all I can do is be encouraging to people around me who are bf'ing and hope to change the conversation. I am really pro breastfeeding, but I am also pro mother; people gotta do what they gotta do to make it work.

Just a point about scare tactics: I don't like formula and I wish there wasn't a need for it, but here I am digging in my heels defending it because hysteria has the opposite effect of what you want to achieve.

 

Rachel, I agree with all your points, but really gastroentitis and malnutrition kill those children, and there are many more issues at play than formula vs breastfeeding, although I don't debate the point that breastfeeding would help. We know this is true because when you remove the greater societal issues of extreme poverty, lack of access to clean water, lack of education, etc, you don't see deaths from those things at the same rates--regardless of formula vs breastfeeding. So to say that 1.5 million babies die because they aren't breastfed is just not true. Saying that breastfeeding could change the outcomes for some is true.

There was a case recently in the Den where a baby died because it's mother exclusively BF and was a vegan and didnt follow doctor advice on the malnutrition issue. We wouldn't say BFing killed that baby. Or even veganism. It was bad decisions of the parents and refusal to seek medical treatment.

 

I have no problem with that statement. I believe it to be true for you and many others. Your statement that we should be tolerant of both messages hits the nail on the head.

 

This is me..I didnt choose which one to breast feed and which one not too, they did. I still "made" her breast feed until she was a yr old, but she was not interested in it. Faith nursed until she was 20 months old and Garrett was nursed until 22 months. I loved nursing, but I also loved the support I got from my friends who never gave me a hard time. I nursed my babies because it was the best for me..but I would never tell someone they are killing their babies by giving them formula.


Brandy

 

The 1.5 million comes from the WHO. I promise I didn't make it up

The picture was provided by UNICEF in 1991, of a mother in Pakistan feeding her twins. She was told she would only have enough milk for one so the boy was chosen. This picture is one that is displayed in the book Milk Money & Madness. It talks all about Nestle boycott, how formula evolved, how breastfeeding comes in/out by the decade etc. That mother asked that her picture be shared so that it could help save other babies. If she had known that she could breastfed two she would of especially when she saw her daughter dying.
[font="Arial][size="4"]
[/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]I know I sound abrasive when I type on here. I don't often write out my full thoughts and I feel as if we are arguing over apples and oranges. Working at WIC I give/issue formula to women all the time. While I am the lactation educator there, Believe it or not, I don't judge those that are formula feeding. I concentrate on helping the ones who WANT to breastfeed, who want the help I can provide. [/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]Often while Im helping a mother that desperately wants to breastfeed, formula is used as a tool, to keep the baby fed, as we work through the challenges.[/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]Working for WIC I cant organize donor milk, but I recently had a friend whose baby was hospitalized and intubated. He still is. Mom is doing her best to pump and meet his needs but I've organized lots of milk sharing for her so that her baby could continue to receive breastmilk.[/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]1 of my own children was supplemented with formula. Im not saying its not a feeding substitute. It is. Im just saying its not equivalent. [/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]going to a 5 star restaurant and going to McDonalds are not the same. But some people don't mind if its McDonalds, they are just happy to be fed. [/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]I can honestly say I KNOW Ive never guilted a women into breastfeeding. But I know Ive helped hundreds. [/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]I wish I could talk to you in person, or you could see me in practice, but until then I'll try to do a better job at organizing my thoughts and comments for the sake of being civil with a bunch of ladies I admire here on TS [/size][/font]
[font="Arial][size="4"]In the end, I think we all desire the same result. [/size][/font]

 

The only thing I take issue with is the bolded part. When we conduct public health research using advanced statistical models we can actually isolate the effects of any one variable in a model using statistical control, so even when we control for things like mother's edu, mother's age, race, class, access to prenatal care, and so on, we still find an effect for breastfeeding. I don't think 1.5 million infants and young children a year is an unreasonable figure at all.

Here's an article from 2004, on just the US,, where the benefits are not as dramatic, and they estimate that 720 infant deaths a year could be prevented by breastfeeding.

 

Jess, I'm definitely not going to throw you under the bus because I know that you have done more to help women nurse their babies than probably any of us on here, and I know that you understand the challenges that women go through. You've been there yourself with both of your daughters.

I just think you have a little trouble conveying yourself with the written word. It's tough when you have a sensitive subject and emotions running high for everyone involved in the discussion.

Anyways, you're awesome, I don't care what anyone else thinks. I knew what you were trying to say, and I know your heart is in the right place.

 

Dug up this thread because the NY Times had an op-ed piece by Dr. Nicholas Kristof today about breastfeeding in the developing world with some good solid stats on deaths related to not breastfeeding or partially breastfeeding infants.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/opinion/23kristof.html?_r=2

I want to stress--this is about the DEVELOPING WORLD--which is after all the majority of the world.

His piece cites a 2008 study by the Lancet.

http://www.thelancet.com/series/maternal-and-child-undernutrition

 

This has been a very interesting discussion so far, and I just wanted to add that I really appreciate the so-called Lactavists on this forum for supporting me without even knowing it.

I always assumed I would BF and anticipated having problems starting out. I worked my way through all the difficulties (latching, colic, reflux, supply, etc etc etc) and gradually gained confidence in what I was doing.. 6 weeks after delivery, my OB (who has twins of her own) looks at me slack-jawed when I tell her I'm exclusively BFing my twins. "Really?? Both of them??"

At their visit to the Pediatrician, same reaction... "Really? No supplementing? Well, when you need formula, we have samples here" Not IF, but WHEN.

Then I went back to work, and the twins started at day care. The teachers' reaction... "You're BFing? That's a lot of milk! Most mothers give up." A quick look in the fridge reveals that I'm the only mother providing expressed breastmilk.

Yes, its a lot of work, pumping is inconvenient and takes a lot of planning into our already busy day. And all of these responses from professionals make me question why I'm doing what I'm doing.. The first week back to work, I experienced a significant drop in my supply.. I was in tears thinking I had done something wrong.. I started thinking maybe all these people were right, and started thinking about formula brands.. but THIS forum gave me hope and got me through it. I had to work even harder to get my supply back, but reading through these threads I thought "if these women can do it, so can I".

I think we need more people to push breastfeeding... Without you wonderful ladies here, I don't think I would have lasted much longer providing milk to my babies.

 

I agree! Formula companies are very "pushy" with their ads, and coupons, and "free" samples etc. Who takes up for breastfeeding? I recently saw a woman nursing her 10 month old poolside. I told her it was great to see a nursing mom of an older baby in public. She kind of looked at me funny so I went on to explain what my day to day job is. Later in the week she was standing in front of my house holding a sign while a road crew worked. She was super polite to me and REMEMBERED me, the lady who complimented her for nursing in public at the pool. I love living ADs for breastfeeding.

Awesome job JULIE on providing a lifetime of liquid gold to your babies, and being that living walking example that it can be done.

 

I tried and tried to breastfeed with my kids. I felt guilty about it not working, but quitting was the best thing for me and my twins. I could be sane and enjoy being a mom. It was the lactivists who made me feel guilty. "Did you try this or that, etc..." as if I didn't try my best. I wanted to but it didn't work. But lactivists made me feel like I was less of a mom and that I didn't care enough about my babies to try even harder. That is why there is such a battle between FF and BF. I know all the statistics and I plan on breastfeeding this next one for as long as I can but I have no reservations about FF and I don't judge people who don't breastfeed or who FF. I know formula is not perfect, but it has worked for me in the past. All my children are healthy and very intelligent. None of them have had an ear infection or antibiotics for anything so far so the formula must not have harmed them too much.