Going out of my mind

I am struggling so much with this nap thing.. She's not even three, 90% of three year olds are still napping. She's exhausted all day, now she's sick with a cold, she needs a nap...

One day she's taking a nap every day with no trouble, then BAM, on day she won't nap and hasn't taken a nap since. She screams every trick in the book and wants to go downstairs...

I've tried bribes, threats, sweet cuddling before nap time, and hysterical yelling (okay that probably wasn't the best choice but I'm going crazy). She asked to sleep with her sister so I let them sleep together one day but she screamed 30 minutes despite promising she won't scream. I just bought her the night night turtle with the stars on the ceiling and she's still up there screaming for me despite the turtle in her crib.

my blood pressure is through the roof when I spend 45 minutues trying to get her to sleep. She'll promise after 1 more song or 1 more sip of water that she won't cry. Right now, she screaming that she didn't get to say good night to me, which of course I said good night 100 times, and I've been in/out about 6 times.

I just don't know what to do???? There has to be a right thing to do and I just don't know what the right thing is.

WWYD?

 

Oh you're too nice. I put them in their room for 1.5 hour whether they nap or not (and they've been napping every day for a week now), and they've learned pretty fast that screaming doesn't change a thing. We have a childproof lock so they can't open the door (really for their safety at night). Stick to your guns, you're the mom!

 

My sons both stopped napping around this age... but from about 2.5 yrs on my one DS was already napping only on very rare occasions. We had days when he'd holler and scream (but it wasn't every day- that must be so frustrating!). I had them separated for nap time, and the loud kid would be in the den in a p n' p with quiet music or a story on CD playing, and some books and toys in with him, while his sleepier brother would be in his crib with a white noise machine (to hopefully muffle the yelling from his brother next door!)
For me, ignoring him worked the best, but if the screaming was particularly intense I would go in once about every 15 minutes and say "it's nap time, you need to be quiet, you may come out when nap time is over" (he had to stay in the p n' p for an hour). If you know she's safe and comfortable I would just leave her, maybe poking your head in every so often to calmly (and briefly) tell her to be quiet. You could also try rewarding her for the times she stays quiet (with a sticker chart or special snack). Her sister could get the same treat for every nap time she stays quiet too (which sounds like it's most of 'em). Good luck.. this could be a phase, or it could mean she's finished napping, but YOU still need a bit of a break every day, so keep "nap time" in the schedule!

 

I think she's testing you and has found that one way or another, her screaming will eventually bring you in. I've discovered that my worst days when dealing with sleep issues are when I give in to their demands. It infuriates me that I'm the mom and I'm letting a 3 year old dictate things, and and I end up yelling at them and then feeling guilty (usually takes a loooong time for the guilt to set in because I'm so worked up and mad!). But yeah, my son has tried every trick in the book too, especially saying he has to go potty 5 minutes after he just went. My best days are when I ignore it and don't give in. I had to do a whole CIO thing at bedtime that I won't bore you with because I've posted about it way too much already! But that also applied to nap time, and he did learn quickly to stay in his room and quiet in bed. I bought a stop light alarm clock and he knows he has to stay in bed until it turns green. Even if he's not sleeping he watches it and waits until it turns green. (It's harder at night because he sometimes wakes up in delerious-tantrum mode and it doesn't occur to him to think about the clock). Maybe you can try something like this so she understands when nap time is over instead of having to get up and check if you're ready to give in or not. At least it might be a way to instill some quiet time.

 

My girls always napped in the living room--at that age, I'd put on a video for them, give them a sippy of warm milk and let them get comfy on the sofa or a mat on the floor. They never saw the end of the video--they usually were asleep before they could even finish the sippy. Could you try that? Don't call it a nap--it's quiet time.

 

I'm with Fran on this one... Mine just do not have a choice but to be in their rooms for at least an hour and a half every day. Most days they sleep and some days they play quietly or read and that's fine by me.
Good luck!

 

What she said down to the childproofed lock. We do quiet time every day, whether they sleep or not. In fact, yesterday, Royce took a nap and Alice didn't. Are they in separate rooms? I do have to separate them for naps. It might be time to put the good sleeper in your room during nap time until this hurdle is done or your good sleeper decides to not nap too.

What I would do is tell her (and I've had this conversation), "This is quiet time. You don't have to sleep, but you do have to be quiet. You can read a book/watch a video/play with toys, but you cannot be loud. I will not come back in your room until it is time for quiet time to be over. And if I do come back in here, I will take away your toy/book/video." I think a few days of that, and she'll be good for quiet time. My two love their leapsters, and quiet time is the only time they get to play with it.

The most important thing is, if you say you're not going to go back in, don't. Don't allow her to negotiate with you. Tell her from the get go, one story/one song, then it's quiet time and stick to it. Walk out. Let her scream and cry. Turn off the baby monitor. Baby proof the inside of the bedroom door. She'll pitch a fit. But it's okay for her to pitch a fit. She's trying to assert her independence but you as the mom needs to assert YOUR authority over her. Because you know she needs a time to wind down or nap.

And who knows, maybe in a week or two this will all be over and she'll be napping solidly again and you can move the other one back in the room and you'll get another 6 months of naps.

I will say though, that I hate the days that my two actually fall asleep during naptime. It makes bedtime that much harder.

 

The situation is so complicated, my good sleeper is in the girls room in her crib
Lyla is unfortunately sleeping in the baby's room in his crib. I tried having her sit in the crib for "quiet time" with books and she climbed out for the 1st and only time, and hit her head on the crib...

If i let her CIO in the crib with lights out, she will cry for the entire 60 minutes (that's all she napped for before). If she screams for 60 minutes to go downstairs, and then I go in and bring her downstairs, then she is going to scream every day for 60 minutes. I can't let her scream forever for nap (like at bedtime) and she's very stubborn.

It's not really an option to shut her in the baby's room since it's not childproof yet, and their are two doors. I guess I could try to switch rooms, so that Lyla was in the nursery and just set her up to sleep on the floor for quite time. I can't quite trust them alone yet since they are three this month.

Letting her sit on the couch downstairs for quiet time seems like she's won and she will not sleep. There have been many days that neither child napped for various reasons and Lyla was never even close to falling asleep on the couch.

I just can't believe this is happening right now. I expected her to nap for many more months...

 

Denise,
Where did you get this stop light alarm clock? How do you trust your 2 year old in their room alone when you don't know what their getting into or doing?

 

How is bedtime on the days that she naps? None of my kids were napping by 3, unfortunately none of them have ever seemed to need a lot of sleep. On the days I could get them to nap, they were absolutely horrible to get to bed at night. I finally decided my time in the evening was worth more than the hour in the afternoon that I could beg, bribe & plead them into napping. So, we gave up naps & started having quiet time in the family room as Melissa suggested. A quiet TV show or a book with a sippy of milk. Sometimes they slept, often not, but they were fairly quiet so I was happy with it. I never thought of it as one of us winning or losing. It was just a matter of figuring out what worked best for them & for me. I eventually realized that maybe the crying & fussing wasn't about manipulating me as much as it was about them letting me know what they needed (or in our case what they didn't need). Even though I would have liked to continue having that time to myself in the afternoons it wasn't worth the battle in the end.

I don't know what your situation is or how much sleep your child needs, I just wanted to share my experience with my own 5 and let you know that, even though many will say that most kids are still napping at 3, I know from our preschool class of 20 last year, only a handful were still napping on any kind of regular basis.

 

Have you considered giving up? We pretty much lost naps around 2 1/2. I've always been able to get them to sleep and mine are great sleepers. But they were done, so after a couple weeks I stopped fighting them. It's hard to say she *needs* the nap if she was only napping an hour before. We just do quiet time and watch a video. They NEVER fall asleep during the video or during the day.

 

I got it off amazon http://www.amazon.com/Stoplight-Sleep-Enhancing-Clock-Pajamas/dp/B002TKLN3M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1299529239&sr=8-1

As for the stubborness, yeah that's my son too. It's awful. My daughter will give up after a few minutes and play with her dolls and books. If my son is locked in, he will scream the entire time at the door. He never ever backs down, ever. With him, understanding that I mean business (from all our horrid night training) along with the clock has made all the difference. But he's also not ready to give up naps yet, so he usually sleeps now. If he was really ready and just could not fall asleep, I could see him giving me more problems.

As for them getting into trouble, they just don't. Luckily they're not really the type. They're separated and their rooms are child-proofed. They have some toys and books, and they're very good about not getting into stuff they're not supposed to (they don't go into the closets or pull their clothes out of the drawers, etc). My daughter will play and read books, my son will stay in bed and sometimes read (I had to be stricter with him and set limts. Letting him get out of bed caused too many problems because then he would never sleep. And then he doesn't understand the difference of when I really want him to sleep (after a long night full of wakings) vs it being just quiet play time. If my daugher is tired while she's reading, she'll crash when she needs to).

I also have super-sonic hearing. I swear I can hear them open their eyes! So they can't get into anything without me knowing.

 

I hate to say that i've done this, but if I go in and tell her I will sit in the rocking chair as long as she doesn't cry or make any noise, she will reluctantly become silet, and fall asleep within 10 MINUTES!!! That's what is so frustrating. That to me, says she still needs a nap, but she won't allow herself to fall asleep unless I'm in there...

 

My DD has been fighting naps a lot, too. We've come to an agreement...she likes having her door open. If she's loud in her room (she doesn't cry, she SINGS at the top of her lungs for a full hour), I come back and shut her door. If she stays nice and quiet, her door stays open.

This is the same deal I have with DS, and he's great so he doesn't even have a gate or anything - his door is open but he stays in bed until nap is over. DD quietly escaped a few times when we started doing this (found her once in my bedroom playing with a tube of the baby's diaper cream, another time playing in her bathroom) so we put a gate just outside of her door so if she goes out, she can't get into any trouble. Most of the time this deal works because she really hates having her door shut, and if it doesn't, I stick to my guns and shut the door so she can sing away without waking the rest of the house! Usually the afternoon nap is the only time I get anything done because most of the time the baby sleeps then, too, so as long as everyone is quiet, it works for me. She dumped out the contents of her dresser drawers a few times in protest on days when I shut the door, but when I came in after nap and we sat there putting it all away before she could go downstairs to play, I think she decided it wasn't worth it.

 

Cameron is not a good napper. Kiefer still is. Cameron learned, so far, that if he plays quietly in his room, I'll let him stay up during his naps. If he makes too much noise (his room is just next to Kiefer's room) that could wake up Kiefer, however, we'll go in and put him back in bed. He doesn't usually like that idea, but he's been much quieter in his room so Kiefer rarely gets woken up during those naps. Nowadays, after Cameron is left in his room, he'll actually tuck himself in and take a nap all buy himself. it's actually more often he naps now than stays up! It took a while to get there. He was getting to the point where we just assumed naptime was over for him at 2+ years. But he's now napping more often. I need that break. There's no getting around that. So if he's not napping, then it's quiet time.

Kiefer, on the other hand, has learned a neat little trick. Call for someone under his door. It acts like a megaphone even if he's not yelling. When he's up, he makes sure everyone knows it! It does wake up Cameron. It's very frustrating when he does that. Sometimes putting something to block his view under the door has helped discourage him from calling under there. It does dampen the volume a little. Sometimes I'll do the same for Cameron's door so he doesn't hear Kiefer's calling as much. He doesn't like to play much in his room. He needs more attention during this time especially. Luckily for us, he's a good napper and it's rare he does this...for now. It's more of a concern in the morning, but by the time he starts calling under the door, it's time to get up anyhow so at this point, I'm not too concerned.

 

Don't give up! IF she's falling asleep w/in 10 minutes when you are there she NEEDS that nap!
STAY STRONG. Hold tough and she'll get thru this. Don't give in by giving up naps or by putting her on the couch. If she's tired and you know it, then keep trying. As soon as she realizes she's been defeated you'll be okay

 

:lol: Sounds like she is fighting the enemy. I guess I never thought of it as needing to defeat them, more to work with them to figure out what they need & how to get there. ardon:


I remember when my nephew was little, the only way my SIL could get him to nap was to drive around until he fell asleep. He was great at going to sleep at night, but terrible at napping. He napped in the car for probably a year. She always kind of felt bad about it, like she was doing something wrong (sort of like you seem to feel by sitting with her), but I always told her that, in my opinion, you can't really mess up nap time. As long as they can get themselves to sleep at night, who cares if they need help during the day? They are eventually going to stop sleeping during the day anyway. I have always felt that, if you truly feel they still need the sleep, there is nothing wrong with doing whatever works.

 

I agree, she probably needs the nap.

I've always heard that the bad sleeper was the one supposed to stay in their room. Have you tried switching them? Also, if she can climb out I'd use a crib tent or move to toddler bed. We didn't take any risk here and we switched as soon as it happened (which is pretty much at the age yours are now). But yes you'd have to baby proof the room then... we had to empty everything.

I hear you about the CIO for 60 minutes thing though. I'd still give it a shot for a few days and see if she stops after a while, but we've never had naps shorter than 1.5 hour here. In our case we never split them for naps, but they've always slept through each other's cries.

 

Honestly, it sounds like she's ready to give up naps (even though you are not). My boys are a little over 3 and starting about 2-3 months before their 3rd birthday, I would put them down for a nap and it would take one or both a good 1 1/2 hours to fall asleep. They never cried, but would talk, scream, play until they fell asleep. Once they did, they would sleep for a good 2+ hours, but I paid for it at bedtime. I would put them to bed between 7:30-8:00 and it would take them until 9:30 or longer to fall asleep.

I tried everything; putting them down for a nap earlier, later, waking them up after an hour of sleep-nothing helped. For their 3rd birthday they got their new beds and I knew having the freedom of toddler beds naps would be gone. And I was right. The first week was horrible. They would go to bed within minutes but would only sleep 11-12 hours. I decided to put them down to bed an hour earlier to see if that would help and they have been good ever since. They now go to bed at 6:00 and are usually sleeping by 6:30 and get up between 7:00-7:30.

There are nights like yesterday where my one son did not go to sleep until 7:00 and we all paid for it this morning. He woke around 6:20 and then woke up his brother. So tonight I will make sure they are in bed no later than 6:00.

It did take some time to get used to this new schedule. I miss my daily 3 hour break but I now make up for it with them in bed at 6:00, sleeping by 6:30 instead of bed at 8:00 and sleeping at 9:30.

 

Heck, if all it takes is you sitting in there for 10 minutes, I'd just sit in the room for 10 minutes. :tomato:

 

No tomatoes from me! (That's probably no surpise to you right Jori.)

Yeah, I'd totally take a book in there--or the baby, and sit in the rocking chair and read and/or nurse the baby while she falls asleep. I still sing my girls to sleep and they are going on 7. I can give them ten minutes of my day--and I in no way feel like they've "won" because of that.

I also agree with Tina. I've never used the rehoritc of war to reffer to my relationship with my children. It's more about finding a way to meet their needs in away that allows me to get the things I need to done. A lot of people move from nap to quiet time at three.
I also remember that my girls were much more likely to sleep durning quiet time if we went and ran round in the park for 20 minutes before lunch. (Then quiet time followed lunch.)

 

Yeah, no surprise!

I sit in the hallway - next to Lennon (who sleeps on the floor in his doorway so he can see downstairs) - while all 3 of my boys fall asleep. Usually takes 30 minutes or so and I just read a book, it brings them a lot of comfort knowing I am close, and certainly doesn't bother me any to just relax for 30 minutes. I don't get the rush - one day they will be closing the door and disappearing into their bedrooms to talk on the phone to their girlfriends. :laughing:

 

If all it takes is ten minutes, I'd sit in there too! I also second a crib tent: it would keep her from falling out, and would keep her in the crib and away from the door.. I also found my guys enjoyed the "cozy", closed-in feel it gave them.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking reading this thread. Surely 10 minutes of sitting in her room is better than an hour of screaming? And more than worth it if she's then getting the rest she needs and you're getting a break. You must be spending a total of 10 minutes going in and out all the time anyway, what's wrong with spending it sitting by her while she falls asleep instead?

 

I've heard a lot that they should go to bed earlier when they drop the nap. so, since all this trouble started I have tried to move Lyla's bed time from 7:30 to 7pm (6ish seemed way too early). but she just talks and calls for us occassionally, and doesn't fall asleep until after 7:30 anyway. you can put them to bed early but you can't force them to fall asleep...

Do a lot of three year olds really go to bed 6:30 -7pm?

 

My three year olds go to bed weeknights between 7 and 8 and on Saturdays between 6:30 and 7 (and they sleep later Sunday morning than any other time). They still nap sometimes at daycare, but we do the earlier bedtime on Saturday to make up for no weekend naps. They generally go right to sleep.

I just don't play around with them on sleeping. I know some here judge that, and that's fine. I know what's right for my kids. They have their night routine, and then they go to sleep. If they start not going to sleep I'll know that it's time to push back bedtime a half hour.

I have to say though, even being a big fan of CIO, I would have done ten minutes of rocking to keep naps.

 

People sometimes take things too literally. I mean COME ON! LOL.

I can't help but feel a bit "attacked" by the comments about "war" etc.. Hmm..

Anyway, DONE commenting on AnYTHING here! I can't stand it!!

 

I never said I was trying to "defeat THEM!" That sounds MEAN. Again, taking something VERY literally. If it's that hard to figure out what i meant, I'm sorry. I'm offended by these things, by the way!

GL to OP on the topic.

 

From WebMD:

Most children from about 21 to 36 months of age still need one nap a day, which may range from one to three and a half hours long. They typically go to bed between 7 and 9 p.m. and wake up between 6 and 8 a.m.

3-6 Years Old: 10 - 12 hours per day

Children at this age typically go to bed between 7 and 9 p.m. and wake up around 6 and 8 a.m., just as they did when they were younger. At 3, most children are still napping while at 5, most are not. Naps gradually become shorter as well. New sleep problems do not usually develop after 3 years of age.

My boys sleep around 12 - 12 1/2 hours at night.

How much sleep is she getting in total on days with naps and days without naps?