Circumcision

I agree that male and female circumcision have very different effects.. it completely strips females of any form of sexual pleasure, whereas for males some argue that it reduces it, but males are still able to enjoy sex.

We circumcised the boys. I was more for it than my husband was. It was no big deal, and I would do it if I had another boy. There are studies that indicate that there is a reduced chance of infection and STD's later in life with circumcision and they've started to promote the practice more in some countries. That didn't play a major role in my decision, but it might for some.

 

FIL needed it done! Those infections can be very serious!

All 4 boys done, as is DH. Wouldn't have it any other way, due to our beliefs...

 

I am happy with our decision to have him circ'ed even though he had it done when he was older under general anesthesia (due to his prematurity).

But, as a grandchild of Holocaust survivors in Eastern Europe, I do worry a bit that if there is ever another attempt to exterminate the Jews, it will be much harder for my son to pass himself off as a gentile. In Budapest, it was common for the Nazis to demand a male drop his pants to prove he was not Jewish and I worry about what if my son were ever in that position.

 

DS is and I hadn't really given it much thought beforehand. I've never heard of anyone around me who didn't circ, so it seemed like a very fringe thing to do. DS had it done in the NICU and while I signed the consent for local anesthesia, I heard afterward from the NICU nurse that the doctor who did his circ never used anesthesia or pain meds because he thought it wasn't necessary. :woah: The nurse also told me he cried and then sucked really hard on his pacifier afterwards. After the circ, he couldn't nipple his feeds at all that day and needed to go back to the NG tube feeds for a few days. It could have be coincidental, but I believe that extra stress was just too much for his little 35 week old self. He had no complications from it though.

If we were to have another boy, I wouldn't want to circ him because of that experience.

 

Mine ARe but I WISH to GOD we had not. HUGE mistake. Messed up. They did it at 35 weeks 3 days and shouldn't have just JACKED IT UP and then wanted to RE DO it. I said NO WAY in HECK! So, the don't look circumcised and I'm glad. I totally regret doing it anyway. If I could go back, I would NEVER put them thru that. Just a disaster!

 

This is exactly us. My boys passed their car seat test and were all ready to be sent home. Just had to be circ'd. As soon as they were circd they experienced "trauma" and had to stay in NICU.. It's the ONE thing I regret from the whole birth experience. Really makes me upset to this day.

 

I don't think it's ironic for you or I to think that way since it follows with our cultural norms, but I think it's ironic for him since it doesn't follow his cultural norms, and he's never really articulated a clear reason for his views.

 

I'm not so sure that it totally strips females of sexual pleasure because much of the pleasure of sex is psychological, but I do understand your point. In many cultures the goal of female genital cutting is to reduce female sexual pleasure and supposedly prevent premarital sex. I do think some types of female circumcision are not as harmful as others. I don't really think there can be any real ethical defense of infibulation, and there are long term negative health outcomes for infibulation and other more invasive kinds of female genital cutting. The wikipedia page actually has some pretty good info on the subject.

The data on the link between male circumcision and disease is much more complicated. There have been some recent studies on HIV transmission in Africa that found higher rates of HIV transmission in uncircumcised cultures, but there are numerous cultures all over the world that have relatively low rates of circumcision and low rates of STDs and other infections (Europe and China would come to mind.)

 

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

 

All three of my boys are circumcised. Since we are Jewish, we did it for religious reason just like Sharon. Aaron was circumcised at home and DH actually chose to perform the the procedure himself ( he does it daily for work too). I was pretty nervous about DH cirsumcising our baby, but he did an excellent job and the whole ceremony was very special.

 

oh my goodness I went to the link and read and it was unbelievable. Then I read that a law prohibiting FGC was enacted in 1996 in the United States. 1996 NOT very long ago.

 

To be fair, female circumcision was largely unheard of in the US until the last few decades, when populations that practice this began migrating to the US. Therefore, no need for a law against something that's generally not done.

ETA - Didn't answer the original question. My son is circumcised. It was not our decision, however. It was done in the hospital before we got there. I did not feel strongly one way or the other about it, but would have probably chosen not to do it, just because it's an unnecessary surgery (IMO).

 

Our OB (a pretty mainstream OB) is against circ because of this reason. He said quite often no anesthesia is used, partially because some docs think the use of it is dangerous in children that small. We had already decided against it at that point, but his perspective was certainly eye-opening. I wish now I had talked to him more about it as my memory is kind of foggy on the details.

 

I work on a Mom Baby Unit. 98% of our baby boys are circumcised. We deliver more babies than any other hospital in the state of Ohio FYI.

 

If you don't want HIV or a STD...use a condom!

 

I really think my babies were delivered at your hospital.

It's apparently impossible for people to not get at least a little judgmental while discussing this topic. There is data that supports the medical benefits of circumcision. Parents get to make a choice that works for them, but try to be respectful of others' choices. Also, the fact that a particular person may have had a bad experience says more about them not choosing the best provider or researching methods and options than it does about the procedure itself.

 

I'm shocked at the number of doctors that seemed to have botched it!!! My son was 4 lbs 8 oz and I didn't think they would do the circ but the pediatrician in the hospital said he's circ'ed smaller babies than Ian...our pedi said it was the nicest circ he'd ever seen - no left over skin, no adhesions - I really feel horrible for you ladies that had to have it done multiple times!

 

The boys are not circumcised. To be honest I don't think we even had the option. No medical personel ever asked about it. It used to be common here, but not at all anymore.
I'm on the east coast of Canada.

 

I agree with you.

People should be able to but can't seem to share their opinion about something without judging or slamming others for the decision they made. I did what we felt worked for our family. What we felt would help our son feel more like Dad and have less medical issues. I chose a Hospital and a Dr that I got great opinions about. We are very happy with what we did and would make the same decision again.

 

Our sons are not. When I was pregnant, we talked to two pediatric urologists. They both recommended that, if we are going to do it, we should wait until the babies are at least 1 year old to make sure it is done right. So we took their advice and waited until their first birthday. At that point, we had heard about so many botched circumcisions and multiple do-over surgeries that we just thought "Why tamper with something that isn't broken?" We've been happy with our decision and would do the same if we had another boy.

I let my DH make the final call and he decided not to do it, even though he is circumcised.

 

I know this is not a popular view, but history shows that male circumcision in the US came about because either the penis was dirty and/or to prevent masturbation. Its goal was exactly that in female circumcision: to reduce sexual pleasure.

Looking at the history of why circumcision became commonplace in the US, I totally changed my view on it. I also looked closely at the reported health benefits, but I found that the rate of complications from circumcision outpaced the health benefits. After the research, it never became an option for us for non-medical or non-religious reasons.

 

in Canada it's considered elective (in the majority of cases) & you would have to pay out of pocket to have it done. as far as i know, you have to find a doctor that does them (and there aren't very many anymore) & have it done after being discharged from the hospital. i believe the current rate of circumcision in Canada is around 20%. it's dropped quite a bit.

 

It wasn't even a discussion at our house. No research, no informed decision, no discussion. We just did it with no complications and no regrets. If we were to have babies again today lol: ), I'm fairly confident we'd have the same scenario I just described. It was sort of a non-issue for us I guess mostly because we were on the same page about it.

 

My son is circumcised. I left that decision totally up to DH as he has a penis and I don't. I really don't have strong feelings about it either way.

I just wanted to comment to the no anesthesia. My son was circed in the NICU as well with no anesthesia, but they did give him sugar water. There's something about sugar water being pain relief in young children? Either way, it was really hard for me to send him back, but he was absolutely fine within 15 minutes. When they brought him back to me, he was a little upset, I nursed him and he took his regular nap. I wonder if the trauma came from just a bad experience rather than the procedure itself.

My doctor did question our decision to circumcise. He told me repeatedly that it was unnecessary and elective. I was fine with letting DH make that decision though.

 

I think everyone here has been very respectful of everyone else's decision unless I am missing something.

We are sharing our stories, and explaining why we reached the decisions we reached. We all have different reasons for these decisions, and to discuss how we came to these decisions is part of an honest, open discussion. Naturally, different opinions and perspectives will arise. I think there is a difference between being disrespectful or judgmental of others decisions and being honest about our own decisions and how we reached them. None of us, pro, anti circ or neutral, should not feel free to tell our stories. Telling our stories or explaining our opinions does not equal judgment.

As for the bolded, I hear what you are saying about certain providers doing a better job than others. Certainly this is true, and certainly the parents need to do their research. That's at least partially why we are all having this discussion. We are all learning about different perspectives, information, etc, which is all part of educating ourselves so we can make informed decisions.

However, I think it is very unfair to blame the parent for the bad experience and suggest that had they done better research things would have gone differently. Even the best doctor at the best hospital can botch a circumcision. COnversely, even the most educated anti-circ Mom could wind up with a child who gets a very serious infection that could have possibly been prevented with circ. Unforeseen situations happen, even to the most seemingly prepared, educated of parents. This is part of what makes parenting so hard, and also why we need the support of fellow parents.

Just as you say we need to be respectful of others choices (which I very much agree with), I feel we also need to be respectful of people's stories and experiences and not subtly discredit their stories and experiences by suggesting it was the parents fault.

 

None of that has anything to do with why I made my decision to circumcise my son. Misguided science in 1900 doesn't negate current science. I'm glad you got to make the decision that was right for you. We made the decision that was right for us. I feel no need to judge the decisions of people who don't circumcise.

 

If you read further up, you would see that my son's circumcision was not done well, so I am one of those parents. It was a very bad circumcision and put us in the position of deciding to have him circumcised under general anesthesia at 10 months. I'm not casting stones at anyone. It is a crazy time, and people trust their doctors and don't know their options. It's often an afterthought because so much focus is on the birth. But my point remains that you can't castigate the entire procedure based on some bad experiences. No one would suggest open heart surgery should be discontinued because of a botched effort (and yes, I understand there are major distinctions). Even having the bad experience I had, I would circumcise again if I had another boy. That decision wouldn't change and wasn't based on it being not a big deal. What I would do differently is make sure the doctor doing it was competent (and not just the OB from my office who happened to be there) and discussed the details with me.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the rest.

Edit: typo

 

My boys are. Joel is adopted and his birthmother made that choice, he was a month old when he was placed with us and it was already done. The twins were 31 weekers, so we didn't think it would be done. They told us they didn't know. However a few days before leaving the hospital they did, and it turned out fine. My boys are kind of small anyway, so sometimes it looks like they left a little too much skin, but I don't know. I honestly don't know what an adult uncircumcised penis is supposed to look like. The boys have had no trouble with it, so it must be fine.

Like Kim, we didn't even discuss it. It was an assumption that it would be done. If we had more kids, it would probably be the same scenario.

 

No one even mentioned it when Luke was born either. When my older son was born, it was more common, which is why he is circumcised, but by the time I had Luke it was less common & after researching why I decided against it for him.

It is getting very difficult to find doctors who perform circs here! I know my doctor will not do them & hesitates to even refer to someone who will. She really advises against it since it is totally elective and, in her opinion, serves no purpose. Funny how different things can be here from the States when we are so close & so similar in so many ways!

 

Thank you for the clarification. I very much see your point.
My point remains that for some people their experiences led them to decide not to do it again, which is part of their story and worthy of being told and does not, in and of itself, inflict judgement.

 

I agree. I take no judgment from those stories. Some of the comments are different though. It has been a pretty respectful thread, but you can see the circ people feeling compelled to say they have no regrets, and you can see the no circ people making more generalized comments that are close to value judgments. I don't think the thread has gone badly at all--but it has that potential (they usually do). So my comment was more cautionary, and I deliberately didn't single out any particular comment. If it seemed like I was singling out people who had told stories of botched circs, that was very unintentional, and I'm glad I could clarify.

 

I agree. Thank you all for that!!

Both my boys were circ'ed. Dh and I discussed but we both agreed that is what we wanted to do. I am a bit confused as to why people say it is an "unnecessary" procedure when there is clearly evidence to support the procedure. Yes, there is probably equal evidence to support not doing the procedure but there seems to me to be a pretty equal divide. Dr. Oz just did a segment, last week or so, on it and supported/recommended having a circ done so it is clear to me that there are reasons both ways and it is not an unnecessary procedure.

Neither of our boys had anesthesia and neither had a problem aside from an initial cry then over.

 

My doctor explains it this way, many kids end up needing tonsillectomies as they get older due to recurring infections, but that doesn't mean there is a need to remove all babies' tonsils at birth to prevent them from having to have it done later. Circumcision is definitely a personal choice for all families, no one should be judged for their decision, but it isn't really a necessity.

 

If we think about it there are numerous ideas that families, parents, and individuals balance when making the decision. On the pro cir side I have heard reasons such as: it's cleaner, more attractive, more like other family members, consistent with religious of cultural ideologies, more sexually arousing, more socially acceptable. On the anti-cir side I've heard: it's not medically necessary, it's risky, it's not consistent with religious or cultural ideology, it reduces sensation, it's done without patient consent, it's irreparable. What arguments am I missing?

As a side note, I see and hear many people here and elsewhere suggesting there is medical evidence indicating circumcision prevents the spread of disease and infection. Can we get some citations from legitimate peer reviewed sources on this because this claim is made frequently, and the only studies I've ever heard of are a couple HIV in Africa studies (and those are of course predicated on the idea of not using a condom in sexual encounters, which clearly does happen, but I'm fairly confident condoms slow the spread of HIV more than circumcision.)? I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt; I just want to know where these studies are. I think many people believe this idea, but I'm personally convinced that is more part of our cultural ideology than any real studies.

ETA: Honestly, one of the things that bothered me was that it was something that my boys had no say over. I argued and argued with DH about this. I just felt personally like it wasn't right to electively remove a piece of their skin without their permission. After a while he wore me down, and I was tired of fighting and arguing about it. I did feel a little better when one of the boys was born with a cyst on his foreskin, and the pediatric urologist examine it, and said we didn't have anything to worry about if we were circumcising

 

I have read about the studies in reputable news sources multiple times. I am on my iPhone right now and am not going to hunt them down. Some were studies regarding HIV and STDs in Africa. Some involved urinary tract infections in the US. At one point, I read that the AAP was considering changing the recommendations back to recommend circumcision, but I don't think that has happened yet. I consider myself to be (and empirically I am) a well educated person capable of distinguishing Internet fear tactics from actual news. I don't really feel compelled to support my position with citations to authority (and I don't even see you asking for such citation from the other camp), but I'm confident a quick Internet search on your part will answer your question.