Need Advice on getting them into cribs

Hi,

Twins are 12 weeks old tomorrow. DS is 13.5lbs, DD is 15.lbs. They have been sleeping in the living room and we are ready to have our life back. DH is out of work right now, so he stays up all night until 5am with them in the living room. They're both on different feeding schedules...we demand feed.

During the day, they can't nap because they're on different schedules and wake each other up. They're both exhausted and really need their space.

Yesterday I tried putting DS in his crib for 2 naps - I figured I'd sleep train one at a time. When DD fell asleep on the couch, I moved him upstairs into his crib. First nap was 2 hrs and he bascially cried on and off the entire time. It was horrible. The second nap was 90 min and I did the same thing. When she fell asleep, and I saw him rubbing his eyes again, I moved him into his crib. He cried for 90 minutes with short 10 min. breaks in there. He did not sleep at all. When I brought him back downstairs, he napped in his boucy seat for about 15 min. The boucy seat is not an option for napping, really. They each get about 15 min naps in them and they don't sleep deeply when they're in them. They hate their swings now - they worked for about 8 weeks. I think it's time for the crib because no place else is comfortable except the couch!!!

This is so very hard. I know I started off the wrong way, but really, it's so hard with twins that we just took the path of least resistance in the beginning. Now, I feel like we have an uphill battle getting them into their cribs.
I moved his crib into a separate room yesterday so they will each have their own room because they continually wake each other up and are unable to go back to sleep. It's like an all day, all night party around here.

I am exhausted and DH is exhausted. This is no way to live. He will be starting work again soon and I started 2 weeks ago. I think it's time they both learned to sleep in their cribs. We can tackle the feeding schedule next.

I guess CIO is the only method here? This sucks. I feel horrible. However, I know how important it is that they learn NOW how to get to sleep and where to sleep. And I think doing it one twin at a time is probably easier to manage.

Please offer any advice, stories or hope... thanks so much

 

CIO is not the only option, and IMO, they are too young for CIO - most people won't do that until at least 6 months. Check out the Baby Whisperer books, or the No Cry Sleep Solution - those give some other methods, like pick up-put down, etc.

Honestly, as tired as you say you are, I would probably tackle the feeding schedule first. If you get them on a consistent feeding schedule, they will maybe get on a consistent nap schedule, too. I can't imagine having them on two different schedules - that would drive me nuts, and I know I'd be totally exhausted.

Personally, I don't believe in CIO at all - we still rock our guys to sleep. However, they have a very consistent schedule, and it takes about 3-5 minutes of rocking for them to go down. For me, the few minutes of rocking is preferable to lots of screaming. I just can't take the long bouts of crying - I got desperate at one point in the early days and tried it and they just cried and cried and got so wound up it took almost 2 hours to get them to sleep. I know many people will disagree with me, but the few minutes of rocking is what works for us. My mom rocked my brother and I, and we both are great sleepers now.

 

How do you rock them both when you are one person? My twins wake each other up constantly, so NO ONE gets a good nap, EVER. I can't separate them when I'm alone and rock them each separately. CIO seems the only way to do this. Put one in their crib and shut the door while the other sleeps on the couch. then when I get the one twin napping in his crib, I can start on the other twin.

seriously....rocking them both to sleep when I'm alone? Impossible. I feed them at different times now, they fall asleep on my shoulder (or DH;s when he's 'on duty) and we put them down asleep. I need some sanity restored to my household.

 

At this point, if they both wake up, I just let them be up. They usually nap at least 45 min., often 90 min. I have help a fair amount thanks to my mom and MIL, but when I am alone, I put one in the playpen and let them play while I take the other to the nursery and rock them. It usually only takes a few minutes for them to go to sleep, then I get the other one and rock them. Yes, sometimes the one in the playpen cries, but not for more than a few minutes. I prefer that to an hour or more of screaming. We also have two rocking chairs - one in the living room and one in the nursery.

When they were your LO's age, I would put one in the bouncy seat or swing while I rocked the other - again, they might cry, but only for a few minutes while the other goes to sleep. It's not impossible. I'm not saying it doesn't get hairy sometimes, but like I said, I prefer it to the 2 hours of screaming and crying we had the other way - when we tried letting them cry around 6 months, they got SO wound up that they were shaking and it took hours after that to settle them back down. I refuse to put me or them through that again.

Also, they rarely napped more than 30 min. at a time at the age of your LO's. It wasn't until about the last two months that they started taking longer naps.

I'm not saying what I do is for everyone, but it's not impossible either. If you don't want to do it, fine, but it can work and I was just making a suggestion, which is what you asked for. If you don't want to do CIO, look at the books I suggested. They have lots of other ideas. I know lots of people do CIO, and their kids respond very quickly, but it is not the only option or the only method out there, and it doesn't work for everyone.

 

At 2 months old, there was no rhyme or reason with my guys. If they slept on the couch, or in their crib or in their swing....it was all over the place (and so was I!) It wasn't until 4 months that I sleep trained them to going to sleep in their cribs. We never did the demand feeding, so they were on the same schedule as much as I could get them to be, so I can't be of any help there, sorry.

I just remember having to go with the flow at that age and when they would cry in their cribs (when I first put them down) I would give them a soother, rock them, pat their backs in hopes that, that would work. I think that 12 weeks is a little young for CIO for long periods of times. Maybe a minute or 2, but I remember hearing them cry...it would kill me.

 

CIO might be the only option for you guys. I know there are people on here who did CIO with very young infants out of necessity, and their kids are perfectly fine and well adjusted. So if you make the decision to CIO because it's the only thing that's working for you, then you're doing the right thing.

There are LOTS of sleep books out there. Pack the kids up and go to the bookstore ASAP and flip through a couple. Pick a method that makes sense to you and stick to it for a couple of weeks. If you are able to afford it, you could try looking up a sleep consultant in your area, or even someone who you can consult with online.

As for your situation... is it possible to put their cribs in separate rooms for now? May or may not be possible depending on your space. Then come up with a bedtime routine... a little story or song, some rocking, turn on a white noise source (a fan, or even invest in a white noise machine), rock until drowsy and put them down. I often would rock one and bounce the other in the bouncy chair with my foot at the same time. When they're down.. YOU LAY DOWN! Get some rest!

I would also do the feeding schedule at the same time. Force it. When one twin eats, the other eats whether they are really hungry or not. This will probably get them into the same rhythm for nap times, as most babies want to go down within about 90 minutes of eating.

Good luck.. sleep issues are the hardest because they affect everyone in the family. I remember really struggling with it but as soon as we took charge of the situation and started sleep training methods, I felt so empowered. Hang in there, :youcandoit:

 

Can I suggest that you record EVERYTHING for the next two days. Naps, eating (and how much), awake time and even how much time it takes you to get them to sleep. Once you have that you can see what sort of patterns are in there. It's really hard to see the patterns when you are tired and the hours merge. Then see where they almost meet. EG: DD has a feed every three hours and DS every two and a half. Try and stretch DS for 15mins and have DD 15mins early. I set myself a schedule based on the patterns they set. It was not set in concrete but it was a guide line. Once I had the feeds more combined then naps etc fell into the same pattern. As for CIO you have to do what you feel comfortable with. I couldn't with my first child but with the twins I was a lot more relaxed about it. If you can CIO I would always do it in the cribs so they know where 'sleeptime' is. Good luck. CIO is hard and there are other options if it doesn't suit you. If you do choose to CIO and stick to it (ie 10min intervals etc) then it can be fast and effective. Hope this helps ardon:

 

So they are 8 weeks adjusted? That really is way too young for CIO but not too young for a routine. I would urge you to follow the above advice and always feed them together and record everything that is going on so you can figure out their current routine. And then you can move toward getting their feedings on a schedule which will help with naptimes.

8 week old babies need to be held a lot, they need to be cuddled a lot, and most are unable to sleep for long periods of time. I used to have mine nap in PNPs downstairs--which I would move around if they were bugging each other. They enjoyed being near me when they woke up and that helped them drift off to sleep. Later, you can move the PNPs to their bedrooms and then once they get used to that, move them into their cribs.

Also, practice rocking them both to sleep on your shoulder or leg. You can do it--you just have to practice cause holding them both at once can be tricky until you get used to it.

 

Thanks for all of the advice. Just a quick follow up:

1. Yes, they're 8 weeks adjusted, but they're 14lbs and 15lbs, interactive, babbling, etc. They act like they're even older than 12 weeks. I don't know if they're actually 8 weeks adjusted mentally.
2. CIO is killing me. But I think it's the only option here. I am beyond exhausted and I'm working full time again. On the weekends I'm so tired that all I can do is cry. I worry that I'm harming them by CIO and I worry that if i DON"T do something drastic like CIO, I will NEVER get them in their cribs.
3. Their cribs are in separate rooms. While in the lviing room, one wakes the other one up all the time with their grunts, etc. so I figured separate rooms would be best. now if i can only get them into them.
4. I love the idea of charting them for a few days to see what the natural schedule is. I will begin that today.
5. My daughter can't settle herself into sleep. It is SO hard for her to fall asleep...only after she is completely exhausted, can I rock her to sleep. She fights it...she'll start to drift off with the binky, then her eyes open wide and she starts fussing...over and over and over until she's out. Not sure if there's anything I can do for this. Maybe it's something she'll outgrow.
6. I'm afraid that if I wake her to feed her (in the effort to get them on the same schedule) I'll never get her back to sleep again. See point above
7. I need a new nanny. My current nanny favors one child and it kills me. SHe will rock one to sleep while my daughter is fussing in her bouncy. I work from home a few days per week and I end up getting upset and rocking my daughter to sleep out of desperation for her much needed sleep. I have to let her go this week because I found another nanny who is older and more experienced and can help me with getting them on a schedule and getting them to sleep in their cribs. This is making me upset also. I can't relax and work because I'm obsessed with what the nanny isn't doing for my daughter.

I am so confused and insecure about my ability to parent. I KNOW they need their sleep. They need to be in their own rooms and cribs in order to get some healthy sleep. It's really out of desperation for THEM that I get them into their cribs. NOt only do I want some sleep, but they need their sleep desperately. It breaks my heart when they nap 20 min at a time all day long. It's heartbreaking.

 

1. unless you are wrong about their conception dates, they are 8 weeks mentally and developmentally. while this doesn't make much difference when they are older, it makes a huge difference when they are very young.

2. as pp have said, cio is not the only option. there are several non-cio methods.

3. separating them is a great idea. as pp have said, you may not be able to move straight into the cribs.

6. it may suck for the first few days, but the benefits after that will be great.

7. that sucks!!

they will get the sleep they need--babies are very good at regulating themselves. trust me. but you may not get the sleep you need until you get them into some kind of a routine. i hope the new nanny can help with that

 

I agree with all this, so I won't restate it. I will say, you seem to have made up your mind that CIO is the only thing to do, but there are other options. Please check out the No Cry Sleep Solution and the Baby Whisperer - they have other ideas for those who don't want to do CIO.

Also, I think I said this before, but our boys only slept 30 min. at most at that age - that lasted until about 7 months. Now they nap at least 45 minutes, sometimes as long as 1.5 hours, but usually that is about it. Sounds like you have catnappers - they will start to sleep longer eventually, when they are ready. I know it is exhausting - believe me, most everyone on this board has been there! Our guys only slept 30 minutes at a time, night and day, for the first four or so months - I was a zombie!! Fortunately I didn't have to go back to work - I'm sure that it is very hard to try and work when you are that tired.

 

Naps at that age are hard and can be hit or miss. I personally would not do CIO at naptime at that age. I WOULD start doing CIO for bedtime though. We did it at 8 weeks with my first (before then I would rock him to sleep) and it sort of set the stage for good sleep going forward from there (he was STTN by 4 months). I'll warn you that it took 3 nights of crying when we did it (cried for over an hour the second night, which was horrible). But I personally felt like it was worth it. We have done CIO with the twins for naps, but when they were much older - maybe 5 months.

 

I didn't read everyone's responses - but first off - HANG IN THERE!! I thought I was going to die the first 4 months!! It is very hard - but you are in the worst of it. It starts to get better after 4 months.

You said "I worry that I'm harming them by CIO and I worry that if i DON"T do something drastic like CIO, I will NEVER get them in their cribs." You will get them in their cribs! I thought the same way - that if I didn't teach them quickly, I was harming them and they were getting bad habits. IT'S NOT TRUE!! They haven't even been alive for 3 months - they don't know how to sleep yet and their bodies are in constant flux right now. Their digestive systems aren't fully developed - they have gas and reflux and everything else.

They JUST NEED TIME. I know that's the worst thing to hear (in one way) because they have no sleep routine. But, in another way, when this was told to me, it made me feel better because I could relax knowing that I wasn't ruining them. That, I wasn't doing something wrong. Looking back, I'm so glad I waited to do CIO - which I didn't do until 8 months. I think 7 months is probably just fine too. It gave them time to live a bit, time for me to get to know them, time to get in a little bit of a routine, and time for them to learn how to soothe themselves. Then, CIO wasn't that bad. Sorry this is so long -

 

I agree with HorseyLover on ALL her points... I didn't read every single response but it sounds like you are at the end of your rope - so please take a deep breath and do hang in there.

Also - you did NOT start off on the wrong foot. Everyone including my pediatrian said for the first 3 or 4 months - do whatever you have to in order to get them to sleep.

My girls slept (not too badly, either) in their carseats in our bedroom for the first 10 weeks or so... I was determined to get them in their cribs before I went back to work (when the girls were 15 weeks). It was HARD. Damn hard!!! I started out with them in the cribs for naps for a few days, then we tried a whole night which was a disaster - for me. I had read "The Baby Whisperer" and was worried the girls would think I abandonded them, so my DH blew up an air mattress and I slept in the room with them. Every time they stirred or cried (which was a lot) I got up and stroked their heads - or picked them up if they were really upset. I think I got 15 minutes of sleep that night. The next night, I slept in my own bed with my husband and was up probably 30 times.... We had their car seats as back-up. Many nights if they were very upset, they'd wind up in the car seats by 2am. Eventually - very slowly - we dropped that.

We then wound up with a pack'n'play in the guest room in case one of the girls wakes up and is loud, and my husband & I rotate sleeping in there every other night. The girls are 7.5 months now, and we haven't used the pack'n'play in about a month. So this is a long way of saying that we've come a long way, but we still have work to do. I get jealous of the people who say their children were/are/always have been good sleepers.

I don't love not being in the same bed with my DH every night, but I DO love getting a full night's sleep every other night. If we have to do this for the next few months, we will. My girls are not fantastic sleepers, they now wake between 2 - 4 times a night (total).

They very rarely wake one another anymore, which is good. And when they do wake, 9 times out of 10 I just pop the binky back in and they go back to sleep. (I'd rather not have to get out of bed at all - but the binky is our master & commander).

It might be slow-going, but it will get better. Drink a lot of coffee when you return to work!!! That was what got me thru the first 3 months. Like I said - take a deep breath, pm me if you need more advice or just need to vent, and good luck!

 

Yes... lots of coffee!!!! LOL - I work with a lot of women, and when i went back to work at 4 months, they comiserated with me! They really helped me through that transition. I would come in and be exhausted from the previous night (getting up 50,000 times!) - and they all just gave me words of encouragement me and kept telling me it would get better. Between the coffee, my coworkers, and the wonderful people on this forum, i got through it!! I have to say, raising these twins is harder than any job I have ever had!

 

Ok - here's my quick update.

1. I hired a new nanny. SHe was my first choice when I originally interviewed her but she was so expensive. We negotiated and she agreed to work for my rate of pay. yay! She is awesome. She showed up an hour after I called her this morning when I let the other nanny go.
2. She danced and sang with them and got down on the floor and played with them. I repeat...she is awesome.
3. We decided to try their naps in their cribs today. Every time they were drowsy and ready to drop off, she put them into their cribs and timed their cries. My daughter napped a little bit but my son resisted every single time. After a long day of this, I decided that this method is not comfortable for me or for my babies and tomorrow we will try naptime in their cribs again, but not put them down drowsy but awake. I want them rocked or held until they're asleep, then we can transition them into their cribs. When they wake up, we can soothe and try to get them back to sleep. If the crying goes on for too long, they should be brought downstairs again. I don't like the CIO method - it's just too hard for me and for them.
4. We put them on a 3-hour feeding schedule. This will help restore some sanity as they currently feed like it's an 'all you can eat' buffet around here. so far so good.
5. this doesn't help my husband, who is staying up all night with them...but maybe the feeding schedule will help him to sleep when they sleep instead of being 'on call' for a bottle every hour for a snack.

thanks for everyone's advice. I really appreciate it and I'm sure this isn't the last you'll hear me asking for your advice!!! I think sometimes we get so tired that we question our own judgement to the point of confusion. I have been a mess for 3 days over this. My girlfriend visited on Friday and made me feel like an a$$ for not having my household "under control." But I have to do what I feel is right for me and my family, and the harsh method is not what is right. thank you.

 

Yay! What a good turn around for everything! Your household will not be under control for a loooooong time! My house constantly looks like it was hit by a tsunami, 2 tornados and an earthquake. But my kids are happy and clean so I just try to focus on that! I bet your girlfriend doesn't have twins, does she?

 

:grouphug: I right there with you! This age is tough!! I've been at my wits end for the past few weeks because my twins have reverted back to waking every 2-3 hours at night. Naps are a mess as they'll only nap on me and not in their cribs. I'm terrified about what it going to happen when I go back to work in 4 weeks and DH is in charge in the mornings. We'll get through it though and feel so empowered when we do! This board is awesome for support and making you feel better and normal.

 

hi there,

I just wanted to add my two cents... we have 6 month old dd's and I wrote a very similar post when my girls were almost 4 months. We were at the end of our rope with sleep deprivation.. I've told my story more than once on here =) We tried EVERYTHING and nothing was working for us... I read everything I could get my hands on. I was not comfortable until closer to 4 months for CIO and I would've preferred to wait a couple of more months to do it, but I was to the point where I literally couldn't function because of the sleep deprivation.. we were getting up more than 25 times per night to replace pacifiers, they were swaddled and starting to bust out of them and were starting to flip over in the swaddles... and they were not sleeping in their cribs (A. had reflux really badly!). So, after much debate, we did call our pediatrician and he asked what we had tried and after hearing everything he asked if we were comfortable giving the CIO method a trial run.. checking on them every 20 minutes.. patting but no talking if they were crying hard. I reluctantly agreed because, as I said, I couldn't function anymore. It was truly the hardest thing I ever had to do and I questioned our decision every step of the way until we were through the process.. we went cold turkey on everything.. no paci's, no swaddles (just footie pajamas), and into the cribs. We followed "healthy sleep habits happy child" to the letter, because the other methods had not worked for us... I am a def advocate of trying everything before trying this method.. once we really had them figured out with putting them down before they were past the point of tiredness and we put them down around 5:30pm for bedtime until they had a really good nap schedule going... they barely cried at all. We did both nightime and naptime at the same time and, for what it is worth, I do think if you ever consider it in the future my advice is to be as consistent as possible and find a method and stick to it!! Once we got past the first 2 nights we battled naps for a few weeks and now they go down tired but awake and sleep through the night and take 2-3 long naps per day with little crying if at all. Just wanted to tell you, that although your LO's are very much on the young side, that if you decide to try in the next month or two.. it is possible!

 

Glad to hear things seem to be turning around for you a bit....you really are at such a hard stage. And as far as your girlfriend, unless she has been there with twins, she has NO idea and don't let her make you feel bad. We have ALL been there. I nearly had a meltdown at about the age your LO's are now. I wouldn't have survived without my mom and MIL coming to help until we got back to a bit of sanity. Even now, my house is very chaotic, and I have come to accept that that is just how it is with babies, especially twins! Hand in there - you will make it!! :grouphug:

 

I am SO glad you're on track! It may take a while to fully get everything where you want it to be, but the important thing is taking control of the situation.

As for your girlfriend, have her babysit the twins for an afternoon and ask her how "in control" she feels at the end of it all. :girl_devil: I am sure she will be yelling out an apology as she runs fleeing from your house. :laughing:

 

Yay for a turnaround! I want to say at that age, our naps were everywhere. But by six months, once they were sleeping through the night, things became much more predictable.

The one thing I don't think I've heard mentioned-is are they swaddled? And I also wanted to add, my daughter was not a great sleeper. She wasn't a swaddler either. I spent many nights of her sleeping on my stomach because she would just.not.sleep-on her back. You know your kids-have you tried them on their stomach? For nap? Again-you do what you are comfortable with. I knew Annabella's strengths-and her neck was one of them. As soon as I put her on her stomach-she curled up into a ball and was fast asleep.

I hope the improvements continue!

 

it sounds like your new nanny is awesome! i hope things continue to improve for you.

when my girls were about 3 months old (6 weeks adjusted), things had gotten so bad with their sleep that they literally would not sleep unless i was holding them. by that time, i was holding them in a sling almost 24 hours/day. it was ridiculous. and i wasn't sleeping at all. and their sleep wasn't very good either. a friend of mine recommended a sleep consultant she had worked with. i gave her a call & liked what she had to say and so we hired her. we talked about the different sleep training options and basically what it boiled down to was that if we wanted to do it without crying, it would take time & effort, with CIO, it would be quick & effective. i was hanging by a thread at the time & felt like i had nothing left to give, so DH & i decided to do CIO. at 3.5 months old, we did CIO to get our girls to sleep in their cribs. we still fed them every 3 hours throughout the night & set up a feeding & nap routine/guideline for the day. i doubted myself a lot through the process, but looking back now, i know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the right decision to make. i do wish i had known then what i know now about sleep & sleep habits (we made a lot of "rookie" mistakes that didn't help the girls or us establish a good routine from the start) & i think we maybe could have avoided CIO, but since that wasn't how it was & i found myself in the situation i did, i do not regret doing CIO.

continue to work with your babies & your nanny & i'm sure things will continue to get better. :hug: if you'd like more info from me about what we did with our girls, feel free to PM me anytime.

 

just to answer a few questions:

1. Both love to sleep on their bellies. Nanny and Pedi don't approve, but kids love it and both have VERY strong head control. DD sometime sleeps on belly, sometimes on back. DS sleeps on back in bouncy and on belly on blanket on floor.
2. No swaddling. Both hated it over a month ago and we stopped.

I told my girlfriend last night that she just didn't get it. She had 3 singletons who she could put down AWAKE in their cribs to sleep. hah! Try twins on for size. She would either run screaming, or would do the CIO which I don't have the heart for right now.

 

If it works, go with it. I think there area lot of moms here who put their kids down on their bellies just to restore some sanity to their house. Monitor them, and let them get a good rest!

 

Yep! My boys were back sleepers for the first four months. Then one night Anthony would.not.go.to.sleep. I tried everything! I was so done! I flipped him over on his belly-out cold. Annabella never slept on her back-even to this day. I had a friend who recently had a baby. He was not sleeping at all. She was going crazy and asking for help. I told her-while she was home, to try him on his belly. She said he immediately passed out-and stayed asleep, vs the 15 minute naps he was taking.

 

I wanted to add that I just picked up the book "No Cry Sleep Solution" yesterday. I've only read part of it, but so far I really like it. It's helped me see that this is normal and gives a ton of suggestions for helping your baby sleep better without CIO. I haven't tried any of the suggestions yet, but I'm excited to try one to help them sleep better in their cribs and not on me anymore.