What is "normal" for 3 year olds?

I am having the hardest time with my twin boys (3 years, 3 months) and I just don't know what is normal 3 year old behavior. One of my twins is speech delayed, supposedly NOT PDD/ASD, yet sings the same songs over and over again, repeats the same phrases (both in and out of context) repetitively, and perseverates on certain toys. He is smiley and engaged much of the time however, and while he isn't the most social guy (it is hard when you are speech delayed) he seems to be getting better with his social skills. Of course when you Google any of this stuff PDD/ASD comes up and it is disheartening. However, my other twin does some of these things too, although he is ahead of his brother on speech and doesn't even get services anymore. He is a social butterfly. But the reason this post isn't in the special needs forum is that I need YOUR help. You, the parents of typically developing older 2's/young 3's.

So I already know tantrums and whining are par for the course at this age. Truman is on time out many times a day sometimes a good part of the afternoon. Spencer doesn't get time outs very often, but when he does it is usually for hitting or pushing his siblings. I realize "no" can be their favorite word and a 3 year old will change his/her mind a thousand times a day. But, here are my questions:

1. Are your young 3's conversational yet? I know some kids are, but I wonder if that is an advanced or typical skill for this age. Mine are certainly not engaging in anything more than the most rudimentary of conversations.

2. Some milestone guides say 3 year olds should be able to "tell a story." Really? Like a full story that they made up, or something they memorized like "The Very Hungry Caterpillar"?

3. So repetitive speech-what's up with that? Some say it is normal and others say it is a sign of a problem.

4. Are your kids actually playing and interacting with other kids all the time, or is it a little interaction here and there but mostly parallel play?

5. Is there something odd if my child doesn't do a whole lot of pretend play at this age, maybe a little feed the doll here, bake the cookies there, have a little tea but most play seems to be focused on "engineering" and building?
Or is that just boys?

Seriously, I am wondering if I am always freaking out over nothing. What does your kid do?

P.S. They know their ABC's, numbers, shapes, colors and all that jazz so no issues there.

 

In my opinion all that you described is normal. My oldest son loved to build, but didn't pretend much. He was also more quiet and didn't hold a conversation, just because of personality. My second son had speech issues from a head injury and could not hold a conversation without a tantrum for a long time. With therapy, he is ahead now.
Some of what sites describe as normal for 3, don't say when during their 4th year. A just turned 3 yr old is much different than an almost 4 year old. Toddlers/preschoolers have a language explosion around 3, but it happens for each child at a different time. Have you already taken him to a developmental pedi to have him evaluated? Most do a really good job at spotting developmental "issues".
Like I said though, all that you describe is pretty normal for a 3 year old boy, IMHO.

 

My two are a little bit older than yours, so that might be the reason for some of the differences, but here are my answers...

1. Are your young 3's conversational yet? yes. They have full conversations with me, their siblings, and each other.

2. Some milestone guides say 3 year olds should be able to "tell a story." Really? Like a full story that they made up, or something they memorized like "The Very Hungry Caterpillar"? I don't know exactly what is meant by this milestone. I suppose my 2 can tell a story, they often make things up & tell me things that supposedly happened to them (pretty outrageous stuff), then they will yell "fooled you!"

3. So repetitive speech-what's up with that? Some say it is normal and others say it is a sign of a problem. We have no repetitive speech at this age, but they did when they were younger.

4. Are your kids actually playing and interacting with other kids all the time, or is it a little interaction here and there but mostly parallel play? Mostly all interactive play right now, but my 2 have always been engaged with each other & played together from a really young age.

5. Is there something odd if my child doesn't do a whole lot of pretend play at this age, maybe a little feed the doll here, bake the cookies there, have a little tea but most play seems to be focused on "engineering" and building? I don't think that is odd at all.

I have a feeling my 2 are a bit advanced socially & with their speech, probably at least in part because of their siblings. They are exposed to a lot of social situations & conversations that most kids their age wouldn't be.

My biggest advice would be to keep an eye on them, discuss it with your doctor if you are concerned & follow your instincts (but it sounds like you have already had them evaluated), but try not to worry too much. There is a big, wide area that is considered perfectly normal at this age, so probably they are both just fine.

 

Don't know about the repetitive speech thing -- I can't remember if mine did that.
Definitely parallel play. They were starting to play WITH other kids, but not that much until after age 3.
By "tell a story" I took that to mean they could recount something that happened (even if it was imaginary) -- like, "The princess was in the castle. A big dinosaur came. She ran away." Very, very simple.

 

Your son sounds a lot like Jonathan at that age. He was diagnosed at 3 1/2 with a severe expressive speech delay (he could speak, but couldn't always express him needs) which would result in him kicking, choking, biting, etc. He was soooo bad during his initial speech eval, that we left with an appointment to come back to finish at a later date, and a request to have him evaluated by the school district. When we went to the neurodevelopmentalist, she said that "on paper he looked like he was PDD, but when you meet him, it is obvious that he isn't". I can say that his behavior coupled with the speech delay, resulted in him qualifying for special needs preschool, where he thrived! When he was dismissed from the program at age 5, and sent on to K, he was sent without any services and his behaviors were described as "that of a highly gifted child".

I know you said he was getting speech, but I would look into the preschool program for him, if you aren't already. It really did make a world of difference for Jon.

 

1. Are your young 3's conversational yet? I know some kids are, but I wonder if that is an advanced or typical skill for this age. Mine are certainly not engaging in anything more than the most rudimentary of conversations. My Liam has been conversational for quite some time, BUT he has two older siblings that he is trying to keep up with. I remember Meghan being more conversational than Nolan which changed at around 3.

2. Some milestone guides say 3 year olds should be able to "tell a story." Really? Like a full story that they made up, or something they memorized like "The Very Hungry Caterpillar"? Liam can recount a story from a movie or a book. Over the past 6 months or so, he will say "Let's talk about VroomVroom (or Buzz or some other character)" He then tells me the basic storyline of his favorite movies. He also has certain books that he can tell me about.

3. So repetitive speech-what's up with that? Some say it is normal and others say it is a sign of a problem. Not sure about this, I don't really remember this with any of the three kids.

4. Are your kids actually playing and interacting with other kids all the time, or is it a little interaction here and there but mostly parallel play? Liam does and has done this for quite some time. Again, the youngest of three kind of makes that happen a little earlier I think. I do notice with him and with Nolan, they were more likely play independently even on playdates and such at this age.

5. Is there something odd if my child doesn't do a whole lot of pretend play at this age, maybe a little feed the doll here, bake the cookies there, have a little tea but most play seems to be focused on "engineering" and building? I don't think it's odd, I think every kid is different in that way. My kids love pretend play, but not all kids do.
Or is that just boys?

Seriously, I am wondering if I am always freaking out over nothing. What does your kid do?

 

1. Are your young 3's conversational yet? I know some kids are, but I wonder if that is an advanced or typical skill for this age. Mine are certainly not engaging in anything more than the most rudimentary of conversations. My boys are VERY conversational. They talk non stop...with me, with each other, with anyone who will listen, actually. But, mine were early talkers & Aiden is advanced in speech.

2. Some milestone guides say 3 year olds should be able to "tell a story." Really? Like a full story that they made up, or something they memorized like "The Very Hungry Caterpillar"? My boys tell lots of stories, but nothing like a made up story tale. They'll recount their day, discuss what happened in a book or movie, or talk about something they did months ago (they have great memories). While they do fib about certain things, they don't 'make up' stories yet (like about princesses & dragons & stuff).

3. So repetitive speech-what's up with that? Some say it is normal and others say it is a sign of a problem. Mine haven't done repetitive speech for a long time. I think that was gone in the early 2's.

4. Are your kids actually playing and interacting with other kids all the time, or is it a little interaction here and there but mostly parallel play? This is tricky, because we have twins! My guys play WITH each other, but also parallel play next to each other. I'd say they play with each other (or fight!) about 75% of the time. That being said, on play dates, a lot of the time my 2 play together & the other kid/kids play separate. However, within the past month or so, they're starting to play WITH the other kid, but that's only after they warm up a little. I'm not 100% sure how they are at daycare...I should ask! I do know that they started playing WITH each other at a young age, much younger than a child would that didn't have a twin or sibling.

5. Is there something odd if my child doesn't do a whole lot of pretend play at this age, maybe a little feed the doll here, bake the cookies there, have a little tea but most play seems to be focused on "engineering" and building?
Or is that just boys? My boys have great imaginations, but Aiden more so than Conner. Aiden can play independently in his own little imaginative world for a while. Conner is more busy-body, so he'll do it briefly, but then usually goes on to being destructive or running around. Their imaginative play is more when they're playing with trucks or Little People, but again, Aiden does it significantly more than Conner. I think each kid is different & that's all about their personality. I was very imaginative, but apparently my husband was not !


If you're worried, I'd discuss your concerns with your Ped. It can't hurt! Each kid is SO different & like you said, yours have/had speech delays. Plus, your boys are around each other, so they pick up on each other's behaviors. 3's is a tricky age, but I'd definitely throw all this past your Ped to see what he/she thinks. I hate worrying about my kids & if they're on track, but it's so hard not to compare, isn't it? Good luck!

 

Thanks, your posts always help! Spencer is enrolled in the developmental preschool, it starts 9/20. I was reluctant to put him in the program earlier this year, but now I am very glad he will be going. Now I am trying to decide if I should get him re-evaluated for PDD-NOS. He may need more services than just the morning preschool with ST and OT. I feel he has regressed over the summer as he has only been getting a half hour of private ST a week. The perseverative speech is new so hence my worry, although many parents of late talkers have told me their kids also repeated themselves a lot when still learning to talk.

 

FWIW.... we had a PDD_ NOS eval for DD2 at almost age 3. The neuro said yes, the schools said no. She did get an IEP at age 3 and was/is in Spec.Ed from age 3- now. She has OT & PT and also had both through EI when seh was under 3. She has delayed gross motor skills and ' signs' of PDD_NOS, but her speech (now) is so good and her ability to communicate is fantastic--she went from low speech to great speech with high vocabulary in a matter of 6-9 months. She is definately 'quirky' ( lots of sensory issues and auditory sensitivities), but I doubt she woudl qualify for PDD_nos now (at almost 5).

Academically they are both far ahead of where they need to be (both were reading at early 4), but socially DD2 is 8-12 months behind (she still struggles to share, express emotions at times, mouths things,and cope with frustrating situations) and gross motor she is 8-16 months behind (she can not ride a trike or do alternating stairs). But they are doing FANTASTIC- both do tons and tons of pretend play , have conversations above age level, and are good kids.

 

Glad to hear this! I wouldn't bother with the eval at this point. It really won't give you more than you are getting and they have to do a full eval before he goes to K anyway. Also, what looks like one thing at 3, can be something totally different by 5! The other advantage to the preschool program is they usually get more speech and OT than is on their IEP's. Partially because the therapists tend to go into the classroom and for groups in addition to the smaller group sessions. Also, the teacher is versed in techniques. For example, I had to send in a weeks worth of snack at a time, simply because she wanted Jon to make a verbal choice before he could get his snack. Good luck!

 

FYI, DD is my 'typical' twin and DS was diagnosed on the autism spectrum at 26 months.

1. Are your young 3's conversational yet? DD talks to me and holds very very simply conversations. Mostly with a lots of prompts from me. DS tries to engage with me, but his language skills are more like a 24 month old than a 3 year old. He tends to comment on things or label things rather than have a back-and-forth conversation.

2. Some milestone guides say 3 year olds should be able to "tell a story." I have never heard of this as a milestone. If I ask what DD or DS did at school today or something like that, I will get a simply answer from each of them. DD gives more detail and uses better sentence structure. DS will say something like "Night night at school. Sleep. Go night night." to tell me he took a nap at school.

3. So repetitive speech-what's up with that? Some say it is normal and others say it is a sign of a problem.DD sometimes stutters a bit when she can't get words to come as quickly as her brain is working. DS does the repetitive speech. I asked his speech therapist about it and she didn't think it was echolalia. She said she thought that he is wanting to connect with us and share an experience, but his speech skills are so limited that he will repeat the same phrase over and over. Like if we are in the car coming home from a play date, he will say "bye bye friend" like 10 times during the course of a 15 minute car ride. He also will tell me the same things over and over or label something over and over. It's not obsessive; it's more like he is just trying to engage with me but doesn't quite know how to.

4. Are your kids actually playing and interacting with other kids all the time, or is it a little interaction here and there but mostly parallel play? They do play together a lot at home. It's probably 50/50 with parallel play and truly interactive play. In group social settings, DD tends to play interactively with friends nearly the entire time. Whereas DS tends to play with toys rather than kids.

5. Is there something odd if my child doesn't do a whole lot of pretend play at this age, maybe a little feed the doll here, bake the cookies there, have a little tea but most play seems to be focused on "engineering" and building? Or is that just boys?DD does truly pretend play where she makes up stories, throws her doll a birthday party, etc. DS does much more simple pretend play. His favorite play involves trains and fine motor things like puzzles and beads./b]


P.S. They know their ABC's, numbers, shapes, colors and all that jazz so no issues there. DS is much more ahead than DD with the academic stuff. He learned his colors, shapes, letters, numbers, etc, months before DD did. He also can count to nearly 30, sight read some words, etc. Whereas DD is just very much doing what a typical young 3 year old does.

I think the developmental preschool is going to be great for him. I would hold off on pursuing an evaluation for 6 months to see what kind of progress he makes during that time. DS met nearly every diagnostic criteria for autism when he was evaluated at 26 months. However, now he is likely to fall on the PDD-NOS end of the spectrum. Kids can make a lot of progress in a short amount of time with the right supports and therapy.

 

Spencer sounds a lot like Aidan...I think if I had taken him to an autism clinic they would have diagnosed PDD-NOS. His EI clinic kept saying that they didn't think he was on the spectrum. I really didn't want him to have that diagnosis, but now I am wondering if it would get him more extensive services. I guess I should just see what the school district says.

 

THANK YOU FOR your post! I had the same questions about my twin son who doesn't engaged conversations and all of the things you just point right at it. My son was in ST at 18 mos until age out at 3, did not qualify continue school thru school district but he is on the waiting list for 'At Risk' program. Yes, it is super hard to tell because each child has different time line w/delay speech or the so called engaged conversations!

 

I don't regret taking Aidan to get an autism evaluation at 26 months because it helped me understand the struggles he was having and it helped me change my perspective a lot. But like I said, he would not meet the criteria for an autism diagnosis right now (about a year later). In fact even a PDD-NOS diagnosis might be a stretch. I know our school district does not evaluate or consider a medical autism diagnosis until kids are entering kindergarten. Aidan's IEP has him qualifying for services under language impairment not ASD. I don't know if all school districts are like this or what. I think if he is in a developmental preschool with ST and OT, he is probably getting all the services he would qualify for, ASD diagnosis or not.

We had the opportunity to do 2 hours a day of applied behavioral analysis (ABA) therapy this summer. I really think that has made a HUGE difference with Aidan. Our local mental health board puts on a summer ABA program so we were able to get access to the ABA therapy that way. He had a tutor come for 2 hours a day and focus on him completely, asking him questions, rewarding him for using more complex speech, etc. They also provided a tutor for DD so that she wouldn't interfere with Aidan's sessions. I think that was really helpful as during his Early Intervention speech therapy, she would often answer questions for him, etc.

 

I am a deaf parents (SAHM) while my husband is hard of hearing. I belong to a very large group of Moms. My kids knows how to socialized from the time they were 8 mos old. As they gradually got a month older each time I did noticed my son was a bit different than other boys who was making all of the milestones. They both flourish sign language and suddenly something happened at 15 mos with my son where he quit signing altogether with exception of saying milk, juice, daddy, mommy, and some others signs. I talked with my husband and we decided to wait a few more months before I could call IEP for appt. Of course his blabbing became less, his eating was horrible, slow eater, take 10-15 mins to get him to chew on any food so this is when I called IEP at 18 mos and he qualified while his sister did not. He never received OT only ST once a week until he aged out at 3 yrs old. We just didn't understand why he wasn't chewing properly and be a normal 'toddler'. At first we thought maybe he had low muscle tone something to do with why he was eating so slow. He has 5 ear chronic ear infections with the old 'Pedi'. The last straw was his Pedi missed this diagnosis when he suddenly quit eating, quit his influid intake, and quit talking for almost nearly 2 weeks. I was freaking out as the ST was very concerned why he backfired when we saw some of the improvements (it was a battle up and down every week). I don't think NO one could be in my shoes and see how things are at home. I felt helpless but I knew we were doing everything we can to help him if we know if he has a diagnosis or not. We switch to a new Pedi and he still had 2-1/2 chronic ear infection but NO tube put in yet. I always thought what IF he had one and would be able to communicate with us better? Or does he have the 1 thing that I narrow down on my research is "SPD, auditory language". My son knows his ABCs, Numbers 1-100, pre-reading levels, he understands us when we ask him questions and etc.

Why does it has to be so difficult to get him to engage conversational? If he can read but why can't he use what he knows of? Why not the longer utterance sentences? That the ONLY issue we have with him! He is almost 4 yrs old next month. Yes, I do see a lot of improvement but he has a LONG way to go with language/speech issue.

Right now, the twins just started preschool. I did informed the teacher that Justin has been received ST thru IEP. I didn't go in detail because I wanted to wait and see what his teacher has to say about him. In the meantime we are still waiting for that phone call with Bonnie (special school) to get the State to pass it budget to them and hopefully they'll re-evaluate him soon to see if he would qualify maybe for a walk in ST or transfer him to that school?

1. Are your young 3's conversational yet? I know some kids are, but I wonder if that is an advanced or typical skill for this age. Mine are certainly not engaging in anything more than the most rudimentary of conversations. My DD is chatterbox easily, talk about her day, talk about her imaginary friend, and just what I expected at age 3/4 yrs old. The difference is my DS who can talk, still points, and sometimes still grunts when he want to say something but most of his days he is just a quiet boy never ask questions, never let us know what he thinking, and rarely ever tell us if he has pain (such as ear infection, stomach upset, or fall down). However, he can answered questions when you do the one-on-one.

2. Some milestone guides say 3 year olds should be able to "tell a story." Really? Like a full story that they made up, or something they memorized like "The Very Hungry Caterpillar"? DD can't read books like DS is a pre-reading level. He does memorizes a lot of the things because he is very visualized with everything surrounding him.

3. So repetitive speech-what's up with that? Some say it is normal and others say it is a sign of a problem. I am not sure of this one ?

4. Are your kids actually playing and interacting with other kids all the time, or is it a little interaction here and there but mostly parallel play? DD play well with OTHER kids and play with her brother at home. There are times he would say car vroom, here come batman, some of the 3-4 sentences phases but repeatedly.

5. Is there something odd if my child doesn't do a whole lot of pretend play at this age, maybe a little feed the doll here, bake the cookies there, have a little tea but most play seems to be focused on "engineering" and building? This is hard to say some days I say he's fine other time I find him odd, but he mainly plays with puzzles, beads, and some action figures dolls. He is very GOOD at 2 of the things (Wii games and Yahoo games) again he is using the visualized objects and etc.
Or is that just boys?

Seriously, I am wondering if I am always freaking out over nothing. What does your kid do? I babysit every Tues/Thurs to another set of twins which is why I was hoping he may be able to engaged conversations like the '3' of them do. They are only 6 mos older and do noticed he more of a 'follow them around' and play parallel play countless times. In other word DD plays interactively with 'any friends'. Otherwise I would think he is bored with the twins' at times when they are playing when he look like 'has no interest' expression on his face.

P.S. They know their ABC's, numbers, shapes, colors and all that jazz so no issues there. (We are in the same situation with this one)

My husband says our son DS did talk a bit more during alone time. So, I am wondering if my son feels intimidated when his sister is around him? But I pointed out that it won't matter because of the other set of twins' he is the same at home if it just his sister around him.

At this point of now we will play the 'wait n' see' as we are keeping our fingers crossed that he'll improved after 3-6 months of preschool. For example yesterday we asked DS, What did you do in school? DS says I play bouncy. My husband asked if the school has one? I said, No, he meant the bridge bounce on their playground. He could answered questions but it is always US having to questions him in order for him to talk to us.

 

Diana, I am hoping the developmental preschool helps Spencer too. Both boys were in a pre-pre-school program through EI and it helped them so much.

Thanks everybody for your replies! I feel like I am flying blind right now.

 

SAME as Andrea. My kids did all of that! THe only difference is my kids cannot play ALONE. They only play WITH each other. They have always played together, never parallel and they have incredible imaginations. They tell stories non stop! They have never been repetitive with stuff, either. They pretend etc.

GL! I hope you get your questions answered soon

 

To clarify, the things my boys repeat mostly are songs, like they will sing "ABC" or "Happy Birthday" many times in a row. Spencer also sometimes repeats himself when he is excited, I talked to our private SLP, and she said not to worry, that it is part of his speech delay. Also, the boys play with each other and sometimes with other kids. They just don't play with other kids ALL the time, but just part of the time when they are at the playground, for example. Their play mostly involves like running, jumping and chasing with other kids, but they don't play like pretending to be "pirates" or "dinosaurs" or anything like that yet.

Anyway, thanks for the input!