I want to ask in the nicest way possible

Yes, exactly!

 

This is interesting because it's very different in the US. For example, most hospitals in the US send people home with free formula and formula coupons. It's also not uncommon for hospital staff memebers to give babies formula behind mother's backs. I know in my case one of my kids was given a pacifier without my permission, and pacifiers are not generally recommended until after the baby's latch is established. The free gift packs fromt he formula companies also come with books the discuss the basics of formula feeding. I can also say that the nurses in my hospital would help with formula feeding, but most of them would not help with breastfeeding. The only person who helped with breastfeeding was a lactation consultant. There was one LC and a bazzillion nurses. I don't personally know of any hospitals that provide free breastpump rentals, samples of nipple creams, discounts on nursing bras, or discounts on consultations with LCs. It's interesting because the word is out that breastfeeding is generally healthier for Mom and babies, but the vast majority of the support you get is for formula feeding. It's quite ironic.

[/quote]


I agree with this.

I know part of what made my breast feeding experience filled with difficulty is that there were very few resources out there to help me when problems arose. Lots of people telling me breast is best, etc, etc...but not too much help for answers to specific problems. I delivered at a hospital that had great LCs on hand, but once I got home I had very little support. I found my pedi and many other professionals to be grossly under-educated about the mechanics of breastfeeding and I found some breastfeeding advocates to just assume that I was not "trying hard enough," etc. It was maddening.


Because I had this experience, it has changed my perspective in many ways. I came out of the experience very dedicated to helping other breast feeding mothers in their struggles (if they have them----many people I know have BFed without any problems) and advocating for more resources and education about breastfeeding. I believe breast milk is amazing stuff. I am an advocate for breastfeeding because I believe so strongly in the benefits of breastmilk, and I feel it's a *necessity* that breast feeding moms receive support and education about breast feeding to help make the experience successful. I want to share with others what I have learned because it's something I am passionate about.

But if a woman choose FF, that's none of my business. My goal is to educate people about why I think breast milk is so important and support those who decided to BF.

I understand there are A LOT of reasons why people choose to FF, and I know they are making the best decision for their families.

I also hate the term "give up" when it comes to BFing. Sometimes we have to alter our original goals to meet the needs of ourselves and our family.
My goal was the only BF my boys until six months, then add solids and continue BF. I strove for that goal, but I did not reach it. I began supplementing at 2 months, was only able to nurse one of my sons and that was only about a 1/4 of the time, and did some pumping. I DON'T feel I failed. I did have to make a new plan and move forward. What worked for me was a combination of the two. I received a great deal of support on the BFing forum here, and the women there helped me in ways no pedi ever did. But when I hear women say they had problems and it wound up to be the best thing for them to stop BF the last thing in the world I would ever accuse them of doing is "failing." Giving a baby formula is NOT failing.

It saddens me that those who feel passionate about breastfeeing would make such accusations against fellow moms.

So, in the end, where I stand is that I feel really strongly about helping other moms succeed at breast feeding if that's their goal. I know there is a TON of misinformation out there (I got my share of it, that's for sure), and I want to help moms not be discouraged by all the confusion that can arise when well-meaning pedis, for example, give bad BFing advice.

I think it's possible to be a stanch advocate for BFing without doling out judgement. And I think it's possible to call for greater bfing education in our society without demonizing FF moms who have no interest in BF.

Forgive me for any grammatical errors in this post....I've had to stop writing five times to attend to baby needs. ha.

 

I think its funny that it was said that it was being competitive to post a ticker with your amount of successful breastfeeding time. Oh goodness ladies! why must we always compete? So I shouldn't tell anyone how long I have breastfed for incase they are insecure about the fact that they didn't breasfeed for that long? Should I also hide my engagement because my friends are single? Should I hide my promotion because my friends make less than I do? Let's just be supportive and proud of one another's accomplishments!

 

I would like to share that my hospital/health plan (Kaiser Permanente) is definitely pro-breastfeeding. They don't give out formula or samples to all moms (they are given to moms who have to supplement preemies). They have lactation clinics at every hospital and all patients get unlimited visits free of charge. An LC visits all moms before they leave the hospital. My RNs were very helpful with breastfeeding. They also have a store where you can buy some breastfeeding supplies at a discount and you can also rent pumps at a discount. No one I encountered at Kaiser gave me the impression that I couldn't breastfeed my twins. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Our pediatrician from this same health plan is very supportive of breastfeeding.

Virtually all of my friends breastfed/are breastfeeding for at least a year. Maybe it's just Southern California, but I feel like breastfeeding is the norm around here and basically expected amongst my friends and co-workers. My only complaint is that my employer (a high school) offers no good place to pump and there really isn't enough time to pump during the school day. This is one of the reasons I chose not to return to work.

 

I have Kaiser in Colorado and while I was given formula samples, I was also helped by my nurses who were trained by LCs on latching, allowed to leave the hospital with a jaundiced baby at 4 lbs 11 oz (born at 5 lbs 7 oz) and received complimentary in home visits by LC nurses who checked weight gain, latching and bili levels in my home twice.

While I had problems with my insurance company on some levels,
when it comes to babies & breastfeeding, they are pretty supportive.

 

OK, I've started this post about four times. I think I'm finally ready to start, finish, and actually post my feelings about this.

I am very pro-breastfeeding. I nursed my daughter through all kinds of issues. It was four long months of he11 before nursing felt natural and without pain. Even after that horrible period was over, I still ended up with mastitis more than once. When I got pregnant with my boys, DD was 8 months old. I ignored the advice of everyone and continued to nurse her throughout my twin pregnancy for two reasons; first being I felt guilt that my unplanned pregnancy would deprive her of something that I felt was important to her, and second because I was hoping that by never stopping nursing I could bypass all the misery I went through in the early months of nursing her (by the way, I was wrong. I endured more he11 with the boys than I ever dreamed possible. Breastfeeding is anything but natural for some of us.).

I actually nursed my boys and my daughter for a month before deciding that nursing all three was too much stress on me. I weaned my daughter when she was 17 months. I continued to nurse my boys until they were two years and three months old. When I add up all the months of nursing, I nursed my babies for 3.5 years continuosly. After the bad periods were over, I loved nursing my kids. It gave me great joy, comfort, and satisfaction to do that for and with my children.

All this to say, yes, I am very proud of myself for sticking with it for so long. I am proud of myself because nursing my babies was important to me. I would never pass judgement on another mom for making different choices. As we have read in the 4 pages of posts, there are many reasons moms give formula to their babies.

My cousin and SIL - both of whom I am very close to - chose to give their second babies formula from the start. They are both wonderful Mommies with beautiful, happy and healthy children. How dare I, or anyone else, pass judgement on them or any other woman for making such a personal choice? One can never presume to know what goes on in another's life. Passing judgement, as was done in the OP, does nothing but cause hurt and pain - as evidenced by many posts in this thread.

If you are a new Mom of a singleton, twins, triplets, or more . . . God blessed you. You be the parent you can be. Love your children, be there for them, and cherish every day you have with them. Don't allow any other person to make you feel inferior as a parent because of the parenting choices you made. If you formula feed your baby, through choice or not, you're doing what you need to do for your child(ren). If giving your babies formula allows you to be a happy, relaxed Mom who is better able to enjoy the quiet feeding times with your babies, don't let any other person take that away from you.

:hug: to all you Mommies out there who are just taking things day by day, trying to figure out this (new) life as a Mommy (I'm not a new Mommy, but I still find myself trying to figure out what I'm doing!). If you're feeling judged by someone, when you know in your heart you're doing the best you can, let that judgement roll off you like water off a duck!

 

well if you HONESTLY feel that way then surely it's okay to be judgmental about someone else's life.

why don't you worry more about your own decisions and relieve yourself of the burden of weighing out everyone else's choices?

seriously, YOU are the reason formula feeding mamas are scared to ask questions on forums like these. YOU are the reason formula feeding mamas cry every day because their reasons for not BFing don't fit into your approved list of medical reasons. we're all moms, and babies grow up healthy, smart and strong regardless of whether you BF or FF. what business is it of yours what anyone else does?

i'm seriously offended by your post. there was absolutely no reason for you to put this opinion out there. it's not constructive and can only serve to make moms who struggle with the decision feel worse about their choices.

 

sorry for the additional reply but i'm interested in the discussion about the data behind BF studies. i work for a health media company and we read/cover dozens of these studies every month. i call many of them "blame the mom" studies, because they frequently present data that solidly points the finger at the decisions moms make. often with no constructive purpose.

that's the trouble with many of the studies. they try to control for some environmental factors (or in some cases they don't make an effort at all) but in the end it's more correlation rather than causation.

for example, it's far more common for EBM to occur in the middle class or higher income economic households because those families are more likely to be able to support SAHMs who are available to BF every couple of hours as an infant demands it. in low income and poverty-level communities the ability to stay home and BF an infant is an unknown luxury, and employers at those pay grades are less likely to provide adequate time and facilities to pump while on the clock. these communities also tend to see increased rates of adult diseases like diabetes and obesity, heart disease and cholesterol. potentially indicating less education about nutrition and personal health issues. these communities may also have more exposure to environmental risks, like urban settings with higher airborne particulate, making children more susceptible to pulmonary diseases

even taking income out of the equation take a SAHM who can BF on demand and a working mom who can't. the working mom is more likely to have her kids in daycare and exposed to other children and adults who can communicate illnesses. BF or FF, her kids will be more exposed to illnesses. if studies don't adjust for this, the results can be skewed to favor the BF babies.

i say all of this as a FF mama who believes breast is best. i do believe we evolved (or were designed, depending on your belief) to provide the very best nutrition for our offspring. i also believe that nature doesn't always work the way it's supposed to, and that we humans have done an excellent job developing a great alternate food source for our young when nature simply doesn't work.

you have to be careful with the data behind these breastfeeding studies. my personal opinion is that there certainly is a correlation between infant health and breastmilk. but i also believe the benefit, although present, equalizes within the first few years of life. one study claimed BF kids averaged about 1 point higher on IQ tests than FF kids. even if the data behind the study weren't suspect (owing to the correlating issues described above) do you really think 1 IQ point really means the difference between success and failure in life?

it's all such a storm in a teacup. i believe strongly that nature gave us the best food we can possibly give our babies. but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. and society will continue to thrive and children will grow up strong and healthy and in the end what do we really gain by fighting about it?

that's just my two cents.

 

Very well said piccologirl! I appreciate your educated perspective. I almost mentioned that socioeconomics can play a role in those studies, but was afraid I would word it wrong and make it sound like most women that FF are poor and smoke, etc :lol: My brother and I were FF from the start and my mom will be the first to admit that it was convenient, no doubt because she was a single working mom from the time I was a very young infant. She also smoked like a freight train back then, which I suspect led to me having numerous ear and respiratory infections, and not because I was necessarily FF. Time sure has changed from the days when you could sit in your our car smoking while ordering your little kids to fill up the gas tank all while the car was running and you were puffing away :rotflmbo:

 

my post was not made to be picked apart over misconceptions - I simply gave the reasons why I chose to formula feed and not put my babies to the breast - and then I listed the advantages of making that choice...prematurity or not one of the conditions of sending home two low birthweight term babies was that they regain their birthweight...because they were on 24 calorie formula (and were barely taking a quarter to half ounce at a time at that) we were lucky enough that Ian was at birthweight at discharge and Abigail was within a half ounce - any less than that half ounce and they would have kept a perfectly healthy newborn just because she couldn't suck strongly enough or stay awake long enough to eat...I don't think all the colostrum in the world would have helped that situation...and see once again the claws are coming out because the perception is there that I didn't research enough to know better...I did my research, realized that there was a very real possibility due to the severity of my PCOS that I wouldn't lactate at all and decided to head that difficulty off at the pass and formula feed...

 

I FFed my girls without a doubt in my mind. I had zero desire to BF with my oldest. Half thought about it with the twins. I knew what was best for me, and that was not to BF...especially the twins. May sound selfish, but I have zero regrets. I had pretty severe Baby Blues, and wanted NOTHING to do with the twins the first two weeks. Luckily, it went away on it's own and didn't turn into PPD. I also knew that I wouldn't function well if I was the only one feeding them. I needed to be happy and healthy in order for my family to be happy and healthy. FFing was the best for my girls without a doubt in my mind. No amount of research would make that change. Plus, my girls did not gain a lot of weight due to being on formula. They all have been on the lower end of the grow chart...especially in weight. Claire, who was my smallest at birth, ended up being my "chubby" one.

My girls are very healthy also. Knock on wood, my oldest had the 24hr flu, and that was it for illnesses. No flu shots of any sort either.

My DH was BFed. He was the only one out of six. My MIL saw no differences in regards to health. In fact, my husband catches stomache bugs and colds easily. He also had the stomache flu when my oldest did.

It ticks me off to no end when someone judges another mom regarding how their infant was fed. You have no business judging...none. It is rude and inconsiderate.

I am proud to say that I formula fed my children!

 

I understand being offended by the post, but it's not fair at all to insinuate that people in this first year forum are afraid to ask questions about formula. The formula questions outnumber the breastfeeding question by at least 10 to 1. In fact, when people have breastfeeding questions they are frequently directed away from this forum to the breastfeeding forum.

I can tell you as a person with a PhD in sociology that no reputable peer reviewed journal would publish a study that didn't control for basic social class factors such as education, income etc. That said I agree with you that no random sample large scale survey can account for every single environmental factor. Furthermore, the data on the health benefits for infants of breastfeeding suggest very strong health benefits in developing countries where people do not have good access to clean water.

I'm not trying to diminish the point you are making about the relationship between social class and breastfeeding because I definitely agree that this makes a huge difference in a woman's ability to breastfeed, especially exclusively breastfeed. I think rather than having a battle between women who breastfeed for an extended time, women who breastfeed for a shorter time, and women who exclusively formula feed, we should focus on creating a social system that is more family friendly period. We don't even get federally mandated paid leave in this country, and health professionals are not well trained to educated women who want to breastfeed. I've seen terrible advice from pediatricians. For example, my pediatrician asked me how many ounces my kids drank a day, and when I told her I didn't know, she was taken aback and said well how many do they drink when they get a bottle? Now if my kids didn't get any bottles she would have been clueless.

I think it's also important if we are talking about studies that we not reduce the benefits of breastfeeding only to "health of the baby." There are many other benefits that often get erased in our discourse on breastfeeding--economic benefits, benefits to the health of the mother, and environmental benefits would be 3 that come to mind immediately. What's interesting is that the data on health benefits to the mother show an even stronger correlation. (And that's not to say there are some benefits to formula; one thing that I liked about formula, for example, was that others could feed the boys and I didn't have to pump.)

I thought you did breastfeed your boys for a while, right? From a purely sociological perspective, I think it's interesting that many people in this thread identify as formula feeding parents even though they breastfed for at least some time. I can't speak for anyone else, but my kids got both formula and breastmilk for 11.5 months. I tend to identify more with breastfeeding, probably because I think there is so little social support for it.

All I'm trying to say is that people can write anything based on personal experiences, but it's important to relate this back to scientific and biological facts. For example, the biological fact is that a woman's milk will take much longer to come in if she never puts the baby to the breast, and even if she does put the baby to the breast, 6 days isn't unusual. In fact, I'd bet there would be a certain percentage of women whose milk doesn't come in at all if they never put the baby to the breast.

My point has nothing to do with how much research you personally did. You may have spent hours and hours researching, and I personally would have no problem if you didn't do any research at all. For me it's not about people's personal decisions. My only concern is that people feel they can post anything about the basic biology of breastfeeding whether it is accurate or not, and as Holly noted above, this happens quite frequently in these threads. I understand people feel passionately for or against breastfeeding or for or against formula, but we shouldn't let our passion trump scientific facts.

 

Great post, Rachel.

I also bf, pumped, and ff my twin boys for 12.5 months and I identify more as a bfer than a ffer. Probably because I mainly bf/pumped and supplemented with formula.

 

Right on Kyrstyn!

Sign me up for offenses of not using organic food, cloth diapers or sugar-free snacks also!

And for anyone who thinks mothers who FF are lazy...I would have gladly let you come over and wash my 20 Dr. Brown's bottles by hand each day. THEN we can talk about lazy.

 

I haven't read through the entire thread but this jumped out at me. I used to have a ticker that said how long I breastfed. I NEVER felt in competition to be breastfeeding the longest. I think of all the people I know, my dh's cousin holds that record in that she is probably still nursing her 4 year old (5 in Nov). But back to this post... why can I not share my excitment about how long I breastfed without feeling bad that I *may* be rubbing it in? What about those of us (yes, us) who lost a twin and only have a singleton. There are a lot of twin tickers out there. Should those be removed because they might make those who lost a baby feel bad? Infertility... ok. I'll stop there.
Breastfeeding is a personal choice. Studies have shown that it is beneficial, even if you 'just' breastfeed for 2 weeks. I don't look down on anyone who tried and couldn't do it. IF breastfeeding isn't for you, then it's fine if you go right to formula. It is a personal choice!

 

:woah:

Wowzers.

 

Just wanted to address this...

No one should be afraid to ask any FF/BF questions in here. This forum is really meant to be a supportive place for parents. As far as posts being directed to the BF forum or FF posts trumping BF posts, we do that because there is a specialized, supportive forum for BFers. Frequently the FY mods will work with the BF mods to figure out where a particular post will get the most help. That is really the goal here.

It seems that the OP has not come back :escape:

 

[size="7"]Choice. [/size]

I am a nurse and have recommended to my friend she should FF because she was being pressured by her friends to BF. I knew she had a hard time with the first child with BF and didn't enjoy it. She cried for weeks until she finally stopped and only then began to be the mom she needed to be. A patient asked me "what should I do ?" I said ... " you are the mom and will be making the choices for the next 20 yrs, if you want to FF I will get you the formula, if you want to BF we will get someone to help you" she immediately chose Formula and was the happiest mother.

I BF & FF my twins and then BF my singleton. I don't have much confidence in the scientific data on breastfeeding. I chose to BF but I have absolutely NO ISSUES if someone choses to use formula.

For some mothers BREAST IS NOT ALWAYS BEST. For some mothers FORMULA is BEST. And they get to CHOOSE.

I think BF twins is a unique and difficult experience and I'm so glad for the twin moms on here that helped me.

I know the person who has started this post might have already left this site altogether (not missing you though) but hey, I just wanted to add my opinion to the mix.

GO TWIN MOMS !!!!

 

Ok, I haven't been around in a month or so...did they move the Den to FY?????

OP, did you happen, by chance, to record this show?

I really hope you did so you can go back and watch it again. and again. and again. until the compulsion to berate mothers on a parenting website for their personal choices goes away. If that doesn't work, try a lil of this :headbang: . Seriously.

This post is just too trollish to warrant any more of my typing effort.

Eve
..who still bf's, btw, but feels that chastising others for not doing so makes her look like a bigger boob than the ones she's currently sporting up front.

 

I am a brand new twin Mom. 5 days new. I am one of those that has spent the last 5 days questioning every single thing I did throughout my pregnancy that would have made an impact on why I am wearing two small plastic bands on my wrist with ID numbers that I have to show and repeat every single time I visit or call to check on my preemies in the NICU. I am one of those Moms that wonders what else I could have done differently or what I could have changed or how I could have responded differently to keep those babies cooking a little longer. Even though, logically, I know nothing I could have done would have changed anything...

I say that because the OP of this thread must not realize that I don't need someone questioning my choices...about BF or otherwise...about how I choose to raise my children. I question myself enough as it is.

For the record...I have a 3 year old DS (whom I breastfed) and who has an autism spectrum disorder. DH and I talked and talked and talked and talked and talked (and... well, you get the idea) about whether or not to BF the twins. I am a SAHM so we figured it would be a great thing to do initially. However, the more we discussed it we decided to formula feed. DS (the 3 year old) takes a lot of attention. Sometimes he melts down for no reason whatsoever other than the fact that a car passed our house in a color he didn't like and it made him feel uncomfortable. My older sister has twins and I watched her BF them and it took a lot of time. A lot of time. I know that what's "best" for my infant twins is to BF them....but I also know what's "best" for older DS is that he still gets the attention he needs.

So go ahead and judge me for saying that I don't have the time to BF. But I'm not superwoman. Maybe you are from your cavalier attitude. But if so, I feel bad for you. Superwoman should be encouraging and uplifting to new mothers and not discouraging and berating.

 

Unlike the OP, I will apologize for anyone I offended with my comment about BF tickers.

No matter which parenting website I visit, there is always the same posts about BF vs FF, vaginal deliveries vs csections, bottles vs sippy cups, my list can go on and on.

And it always seems to me that the ones who FF, had a csection, still uses bottles over the age of one or their 2 year old still uses a paci, are made to feel like they are doing harm to their kids or just plain lazy as the OP pointed out.

So again, I am sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my intention.

Parenting is hard enough and I'm pretty sure all of us at one point or another have doubted the decisions we have made for our children. We don't need to hear it from strangers online who know nothing about us IRL.

 

i don't specifically mean this forum, which is why i couched the statement with "forums like these." this is a widespread issue that comes up on virtually every parenting forum. that said, i can say from personal experience and from direct conversation with other FF mamas on forums like these that the sense of being intimidated out of asking or answering FF questions is not uncommon. you can choose to believe that or disbelieve that as you see fit.

unfortunately not every study that makes media headlines is reputable or peer reviewed. for every study my company reports, we cast out a dozen or more based on very shaky science. and sometimes the ones we cast out end up on GMA or other similar soft-news sources, regardless of the poor methodology. and sure enough, some of these shaky reports and up trickling down to the BF/FF debate.

i didn't share my details in this thread because i don't need to justify my decisions to the OP. if this discussion had arisen elsewhere i would have happily shared my story. but since you bring it up, i never successfully breastfed either baby. owen latched twice, jacob latched once, and my supply dwindled rapidly. i pumped for 3 months but never produced enough to exclusively feed them on BM alone. we supplemented with formula from the start and by the time we reached 3 months i was producing so little BM that i finally stopped pumping altogether and we transitioned fully to formula. i tortured myself over my failure to produce BM (to an extent i am not willing to share in this thread, again thanks to the OP) and i've seen countless threads in the FY forum (as well as BF forum) where similarly tortured mamas don't feel like they can continue, but are convinced by the hype that switching to formula means condemning their children to a lifetime of illness. i've weighed in on many of these threads to offer a voice of FF support because frequently they mostly get responses from BF mamas who encourage them to just keep going just a little bit longer, and then a little bit longer. i understand offering support from both sides, but when the only reason a mama continues to BF is because she's scared her children will get sick it's time to stop pushing BF and support what's best for her emotionally.

i have a cousin who had a singleton about 5 months ago and around 2 months she found out her little boy had severe reflux. she had other issues with foreceful letdown and a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. she spent every waking minute not attending to his screaming researching ways to fix her BM problems until she was near a nervous breakdown. it was so severe that her doctor recommended switching to an elemental formula. she was tortured over this decision because in her community (andrews AFB) the majority of her community EBF for more than a year. she was ashamed of her "failure" to BF and knew she wouldn't have support from her neighbors. she continued struggling with BF for another month, crying every day and grappling with depression, all because she knew her decision to switch to formula would be met with tacit disapproval from her peer group. anecdotal, but in the end all we have in this debate are personal and anecdotal examples.

i identify as a FF mama rather than a BF mama because my experience is totally opposite of yours. i see no shortage of support for BF mamas, either in the real world or online. my hospital was plastered with "breast is best" and "breastmilk is liquid gold" messages all over the place. as a mother of multiples i was first on the list for LC whether i wanted it or not. in my experience, in my community, the FF mamas have to justify themselves and the BF mamas are heralded as heroes. hell, when i was interviewing doulas i had two refuse to work with me because i wouldn't commit to them prior to giving birth that i would do everything it took to EBF. that's not an exaggeration, that's literally the reason they felt we wouldn't be a good fit.

as you noted, there's a danger in projecting your personal experience and it's likely neither of us has the perfectly clear view on which group is least supported. the unfortunate result of debates like this is that each side ends up fighting for the title of "most victimized." if we could stop attacking each other and just let go of the need to judge each others' decisions, maybe none of us would feel victimized.

honestly, at this point it feels like this thread is turning into a BF/FF debate because someone brought research into the conversation. it's counterproductive. you can't say "live and let live" and then argue about the science. i'm as guilty of falling into that trap as anyone.

we don't have to justify our decisions either to each other or to the scientific community. let's just let each other raise happy, healthy kids. :good:

 

I have 4 children:
oldest- breastfed for 3 months and then went back to work full time as a teacher, formula fed until a year
middle-breasted 13 months
twin babies-breastfed 15 months (today was the last day :cry: )

My sister has 5 children:
oldest-wouldn't latch for anything! pumped for 3 months and formula after that
next-breastfed a year
next-breastfed 10 months then formula
twin babies-formula from the beginning



My point is, you do what you gotta do. I'm a strong advocate of breastfeeding, but I realize that people have the right to make their own decision on this matter. I feel like there are some moms who really want to breastfeed and then during the first few weeks are sent off track by bad advice, incorrect information or lack of support. We really need to do a better job in this country providing women with a better support system to make it through the bumps in the road that are almost inevitable. That being said, if a woman is choosing to pump, supplement, do all formula or whatever, I think we all need to respect her decision.
She has reasons and it's not really anyone else's business. Formula is good and healthy and a blessing in the lives of many babies. The last thing a new mom needs is more GUILT, especially thrown upon her by other Moms, who should know better!

shannon

 

Wow, let me get this straight. OP was watching GMA about cyber bullying, actually watched while the topic was discussed...and chose to come here and do just that? I watched that same clip and thought of how things like this happen and hoped that it might make some think twice before doing it next time...instead, it seems to have encouraged someone. Wow.

 

I have nothing really to add other than I FF from the beginning, I was never comfortable with the thought of BF. I don't regret it at all, and I'd do it the next time in a heartbeat. And to answer the OP's question about what would you do if formula didn't exist? (I think that was the part I found most offensive) Well, then yes, of course I would BF, or whatever else it took to feed my babies. No, I would not let them starve because BF "is just not for me".

But I could not believe when I started searching through Craigslist yesterday, looking to buy a playhouse for my kids, and I found a BF debate there as well! Seriously. Someone was selling formula, and then sure enough I found post after post slamming FF moms and the original seller. I actually found some of those comments more offensive than the OP here. And I'm one who never really got wrapped up in the whole BF/FF debate. I have family/friends/neighbors who have done both, and I've never felt judged for my decision to FF, and if I had it wouldn't have changed my decision or how I felt about it. I never really realized how deep the issue goes until seeing those posts and reading this thread.

I can't believe people find it ok to force their opinions and judgments on other people. There are lots of decisions parents make in raising their children - to be a stay at home parent or go back to work, where they live, where they will go to school, etc. How you feed your kids is just another personal parenting decision. I guarantee the OP would have some "parenting flaws" in the eyes of another mother. No one is perfect and no two people parent their children exactly the same. But why make a public judgment over it when it's not their business to? Not to mention, it's just plain mean!

 

lol, my thoughts exactly. The irony of it is almost comedic.

 

I feel like the majority of you didn't even read my whole post! You saw BF vs. FF and your blood started to boil. I said that there are ligitmate reasons why mothers cannot BF. I DID NOT post this to make formula mothers feel bad! I DO NOT care if you feed your child differently! You are all putting words in my mouth (or in my post rather). I am NOT cyber-bullying! If I EVER atack someone personaly or directly say someone's choice as a mother is bad I would like someone to remind me. I never once said someone was lazy or a incopetent mother.

The point of my post was to encourage those women who are really stuggling trying to BF. I know their are a lot of women who would be helped to know depite initial challenges IT IS POSSIBLE for several moms to BF twins.

 

I've put in bold the parts that I believe most of us had a problem with just in case you forgot what you wrote. If we (meaning those of us who did not or are not breast-feeding) wanted your advice on how we should continue to beat ourselves up over something that we did not or COULD NOT do, we'll ask for it next time. Until then, you should probably just apologize (like, sincerely) and move on.

 

First of all, if you truly didn't mean to offend people, your response to 5 pages of offended mothers (bf'ers and ff'ers alike) should probably include a lot less shouting. Odds are pretty good that there is a valid case against the post in question when that many people are in agreement. I'm just sayin. A good old fashioned, "OMG, what did I do?! I did NOT mean that the way it came out!" would serve you you much better than "...you are all putting words in my mouth..." But it's very clear we have really different styles of expressing ourselves

I really, really would like to know about the non sequitur post, tho. How in the world do you go from "I saw this thing on cyber-bullying" to a dissertation on breastfeeding?? I still don't understand how that post could come off as anything but condescending and judgmental, even with your "explaination."

Hey, I'm all for chalking things up to misunderstandings. I just wish you had exhibited a little less defensiveness and a little more sincere regret...unless you aren't regretful...in which case, I guess we can move on, as well.

Eve

 

To the OP:
I believe the big issue most of us had with your post was that your title said, "I want to ask in the nicest way possible", but your post does not ask a question. However, what you do in your post is start by talking about a GMA story on cyber-bullying, then go onto breastfeeding. You did say that you realize some mom's can't for several reasons, but you also say that a lot of mom's make the choice not to, or don't try hard enough. I think you lost a lot of us with the line about "What would you do if formula didn't exist? Let your babies starve?" Perhaps your intentions were missed because of that.

Coming back 5 pages into the thread by being angry and defensive isn't going to help your case either.

I think if you would have actually asked a question, and left out the "what would you do" comment, you may have been better received. And I'm saying this as a former hard-core breast feeding momma, but a momma who would never dream to put my values on another Mom and judge them for the parenting choices they make.

 

Ok, I gotcha. I'm not reading other forums, but I definitely don't see any reluctance in this forum to ask questions about formula. As I stated, the formula questions far outweigh the number of breastfeeding questions.

Yeah, I agree with that, and I wouldn't single out just studies on infant feeding methods. This could be true for any of public health related issues. Not only do they often report on poorly conducted studies, but they often report the findings incorrectly.

On a personal note, I just wanted to say that I remember your posts, and I really felt for you. Actually, our personal experience is not totally different. I primarily pumped for the first 6 weeks and had latch issues as well, which is part of the reason I really do empathize. I had a few moments where I was ready to stop. There are so many things that us new parents go through. The transition to parenthood is a huge adjustment, especially with twins, and since my boys were just a few months older I definitely could relate to you at the time. I know you personally may not consider it breastfeeding, but to me and maybe some others it sounds like you did breastfeed your boys for three months. I can't speak for others, but to me it's not an all or nothing proposition. It's like anything else--lord knows I've been there with how a feed my kids and how much TV I let them watch--I'd prefer they eat healthy foods and not watch TV, but I'm a little short of that goal .

You're right we probably never will see eye to eye on what the level of support for each feeding method is. To me the mere fact that we have to have laws to protect the rights of women to breastfeed signals the low level of support. I guess I feel that when people start getting chased out of malls for giving their kids a bottle then the support for bottle feeding will be lower. It's interesting because I teach family and sexuality classes at the college level, and I've never had a student say formula feeding is gross, disgusting, or inappropriate, but I have had numerous students say that about breastfeeding.

The only real anti-formula feeding arguments I hear come from a handful or people who have this notion that breastfeeding is what everyone should do no matter what. I think that group of folks needs to walk a mile in other people's shoes, so they can have a better understanding of why so many women struggle with this issue.

 

I just wanted to add that I don't personally think the moderators are hostile to any feeding method. It's just unfortunate, that a very well intended idea--having a breastfeeding forum--has the unintended consequence of making it look like FY is the formula feeding group and BF is the breastfeeding group.

Judy I appreciate your response. I've never had a BF ticker, and I didn't really think you needed to apologize. I just disagreed with the sentiment.

As to the bold part-- it's always something isn't it. Without twinstuff I would have never know that how long you leave a child in a crib is a controversial issue. :ibiggrin: :catfight: I just think we take a lot of this stuff way too personal.

If that was the point then you need to find another way to say it. This is clearly a very sensitive topic, and the wording made it sound like you were saying, "Hey I worked hard at this. Why don't other people?"

 

Ok, I don't know about anybody else, but I'm ready to move on and get over this thread. I have no ill feelings towards the OP, and I hope that others who spoke their mind feel better and won't harbor negative feelings either. We all expressed our opinions and thoughts, and I don't wish to continue to berate the OP. Her post at most was a poor choice of words on a forum frequented by many twin moms who have struggled with BF and understandably got defensive. All that being said...let's get back to supporting one another including the OP :ibiggrin:

 

Jeez, I must be very unobservant today, or tired, or something...I just noticed that the subtitle to your post is "but probably still gonna get crap." Hmmmm. So you knew that what you were about to type was going to rub people the wrong way. That is (or should be) a red flag to your internal filter. If you think you're going to tick people off, it's a pretty safe bet you're right. If that's what you're after, fine (although I would suggest that that sort of topic-starting is better suited to the Den). But please don't act victimized by those that replied...especially when you wait that long to defend your case. It really doesn't hold water when your title pretty much says :stir:.

 

Agreed!