Help-do they need more calories?

What would you do?
The boys eat every three hours during the day.....starting at 5:00AM.
My 5mo boys were sleeping through the night at 8 weeks (7:30-5:00). When they turned 4mo one was waking up any were between 12-2 for an extra feeding…..well then the other twin started waking up and wanting an additional feeding. Then they both started waking up twice night……last night now at 5 months they were waking up every 2 hours. Needless to say I got NO sleep.
I think they are going through a growth spurt and they are not getting enough during the day. I am drinking water, taking fenugreek, I am on my own during the day and have a 2-1/2year old running around, so pumping seems almost impossible, but I could try???
Should I supplement with formula for a week or so?? If so which feeding? Or after each breast feeding? How much do I give them?
Should I skip the formula and start feeding them solids?
Thanks in advance for your experiences and advice!
Mishelle

 

It's actually really common to have a sleep regression around this age, where babies who were STTN suddenly backtrack. I think it has something to do with development/brain maturity.

Does it seem like they're teething? That could also be a culprit. I'm not above throwing some Tylenol at a problem to see what happens!

How often do they nurse during the day? If you're concerned about them getting enough calories, the #1 best thing you can do is nurse more. Try to avoid giving bottles after nursing, since your supply will almost certainly tank. I also wouldn't start solids yet. They're not 6 mo yet, and solids can actually be counterproductive. They can make the babies take in fewer calories, not more (since solids are less calorie-dense than breastmilk and take up space in their tummies that could be filled with milk). Some babies also sleep worse for a while after starting solids (mine definitely did!), probably because of the new challenge to their digestive system.

If it is just a growth spurt (and could easily be!) it shouldn't last too much longer. Meantime, just nurse, nurse, nurse (as much as you can with a toddler running around, anyway!). I hope things get better soon! :hug:

 

Aside from all the typical teething, developmental stuff I'm going to throw in an idea that might be really unpopular. And I only have this theory based on my own 4 kids, so the population sample was little small!

Do kids finally sttn when they have control over their bladders? My 9 year old is a crappy sleeper, and still gets up at night to pee. My 6 year old was out of nighttime diapers at 6 months and has always been the best sleeper in the family. My twins are finally out of night time diapers in the past few weeks and have been sleeping better.

Now clealy I may have the causation reversed here (ie, my son gets up to pee because he is a crappy sleeper, not the other way around!) but just a thought.

Anyway, in regards to exhaustion I always took the "one more night" approach. Also, Ibuprofen for them and a strong drink for you sounds in order! Hang in there. I think sleep (or lack of) is the hardest part of parenting. (But I've never had a teenager, so check back in in a few years!)

 

your 6 year old was out of nighttime diapers at 6 months??? What???? i've never heard of anything so ridiculous... was she/he potty trained during the day at 6 months, or was this a typo? I see your twins are turning 3 in June. I'm amazed that they are out of nighttime diapers, but I wouldn't use the phrase 'finally'... Maybe you aren't aware that 2.5 for nighttime training is awesome, so they are doing just fine! I do agree that potty training/pee issues can affect sleep later on, but I sincerely doubt that this has anything to do with sleep problems at 5 months, unless her sons are peeing through their diapers and are wet and uncomfortable. (BTW lots of people get up in the middle of the night to pee...the fact that your 9 your old does this indicates that he does have control of his bladder!! He's not peeing in the bed!)

Anyway back to the OP... I think it is normal for some regression at this age. If it goes on more than a week I might let them do a little bit of CIO at the first wake up just to see if they are merely in the habit of waking up for food. Usually I notice that once the first wake up is avoided they will naturally sleep through the other wake-ups. If it's any consolation 2 of my 5 kids were up every 2 hours until 5 months. They weren't regressing because they hadn't made any progress to regress from! I finally did CIO at 5 months, and they only had to cry through their midnight wake up for a few nights, then they automatically slept through the 2am and 4am wake ups. It really was habitual...they weighed very healthy weights and could get all their calories during the day. If you feel emptier during the day it's because your boys are nursing more at night. Once they sleep through again you will feel really full again!

 

Mod hat for just a sec - Susanna, I take your points, and I know your intentions are good, but your tone sounds really belittling, and I'd just ask you to be mindful of TOS. [/mod hat ]

Username - my kids are daytime PTed now, but are still very, very heavy wetters overnight. (They're in cloth and we double diaper them, ie one toddler size prefold with a baby size prefold inside, and we still often have leaks.) They've been STTN since 12 mo (DS) and 15 mo (DD). I'm not even close to thinking of nighttime PT yet.

 

I don't think night time bladder control can really be taught in the way that it can when they are awake. I think they just get it when they get it, kwim? For my daughter she just stopped peeing at night so we let her bum be diaper free, but she needed them during the day until she was much older. I assumed my kids would be 5 or 6 before figuring out the nighttime stuff (based on the experiences of their cousins and my brothers) but it was never an issue, even though they all thought night time nursing was the best!

I guess I don't mean bladder control, but not needing to void at night, has an impact on sleep. I don't believe humans are meant to sleep soundly or ttn as infants or young toddlers. And this is just a thought I've had recently but humans are programmed not to starve. I think new parents worry far too much about calories and not all the other stuff. An infant who sleeps soundly (ie doesn't need help) is an infant who can be forgotten or left behind because the mom can go further away. (yea know, when the parents are running away from the sabretooth tigers if mom isn't right there she won't grab the baby.) And voiding might just be another way of keeping mom close by, as much as hunger or cold, etc.

A newborn doesn't have a clue what is going on with its body, but a 5 month old does. This new awareness could be a factor. Again, all this is just speculative based on my 4 kids, as I originally said. (Also, could be trying to find justification of why I was up at least 12 times last night when my youngest kid is almost 3! :FIFblush: )

Anyway, I'm sure we could discuss more but my lo is done nursing so my time here is up! :ibiggrin:

 

to the OP, at about 6 mo. I think mine hit a growth spurt and started getting teeth in. And if I think about all the times they got teeth in... its when they were waking up at night. Though for my son when he truly was hurting he didn't even want to nurse, he just laid his head on my shoulder for comfort... but mostly they feed in the night when they wake ... we went through a patch for a couple of months I think at 6 mo. then a big spell at 12 months, and 15 mo. for molars and 18 mo. for eye teeth and now 22 mo. again for their 2nd molars.

If its actually teething... here's what I'm doing... I am actually trying out an amber teething necklace on my son - you don't let them chew it, or wear at naps or night time, but they wear the amber necklace at other wake times and the natural properties are supposed to be calming. We got it on Monday and he sttn again on Tue, Wed, Thurs then I forgot to have him wear it on Fri and he didn't sttn last night. who knows. they are typically only waking 1 time.

with yours waking so much, it might not be only teething.

my other thought is that some of the 'books' (Baby Whisperer) say that if you think it is habitual waking, you can try to wake them before they typically wake, and then you will redirect the sleep cycle and maybe throw them off to be able to sleep longer. you only jiggle them a bit to get them to open their eyes and then let them drift back to sleep...

sorry my post is all over the board...good luck. not getting sleep is really hard on momma!

 

I gotcha now... and I meant 'ridiculous' in a good way. I honestly thought you had a typo there on potty training at 6 months!! Just astounded over the idea of a baby being night time trained at 6 months. And I totally agree it's not something that can be taught.

 

See my note to Username... didn't mean to sound belittling...just absolutely astounded!! Can't always get 'tone' over text!

 

Oh, totally! Tone in the written word is a doozy.

Sort of a side note, but does anyone know what ECers do at nighttime?

 

I thought I had my forum abbreviations down-pat, but I have no clue what ECers means... Early ???...

 

Elimination communication - ie babies going diaper free from day one (or pretty early).

 

I feel like I'm on a different planet! I had no idea that such a thing even existed. What do they do? Cry when they need to pee/poop? then a parent does what???

I've got kids who I've considered pretty early potty-trainers... My earliest was my 18 month old dd who just went and sat on the toilet one day when I jokingly asked her if she wanted to go potty. she trained by 19 months. My other 2 trained by 2years 4 months, but only after potty-training 'boot camp' where I took away their diapers and they figured things out by 'accident'! Quite literally. Only took them each 3 days to do it...seemed pretty easy to me. My oldest was night time trained at age 3. She just asked to go without a diaper at night and that was it. My other two didn't kick the pull-up habit at night until age almost 4 and 4.5. (They will be 5 soon.) My toddler is still in a diaper heading towards age 2.5...don't plan on doing another potty training boot camp until my youngest is on a better schedule. Maybe by April or May at the earliest. Anyway, I have a framework to understand an 18monther training, even maybe a 15 monther...12 months isn't out of my framework as a possible 'miracle' trainer...but seriously...prior to 12 months...it's not even on my radar! I'm in shock that this exists.

 

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the post here!! Hope those babies are sleeping better soon!

 

I can't imagine night time ec is any different than daytime. I think many ec-ers still use a diaper as back up. I know I certainly would at night with two infants in my bed. Those baby poops can really fly!

I know that for the first few years of my kids' lives I would always wake up just before they did. (Maybe they were starting to stir and that would wake me, who knows....) If I were as tuned into my kids' elimination patterns then I imagine that would wake me just as my body knows we need to nurse soon. Never had any interest in EC so this is just my guess.

And no worries to Susanna- I have a 9 year old going on 13. Sadly, I hear the belittling tone of voice all too often these days. :headbang:

 

Hey all!

Thanks for the notes. The boys are not teething.....just waking and wanting to eat. As an update 4 nights later.....Parker is down to 3 wake-ups and Collin is down to 2. So I think it is a growth spurt. Although, I will remember the necklace thing when they do start teething.

On the other note Potty Training......Google "Potty Whisperer". I have heard of this in other countries. Parents do not use diapers, they train the children from day one to respond to a buzz or noise and then the baby knows it is time to pee. From what I read it works and the children to not pee the bed at night. I have not tried it......just read a little on the topic online.

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas!
Mishelle

 

Oh my gosh this is hysterical! Reminds me of Pavlov's dogs salivating over the whistle. LOl.

And Username...I too wake up right before my ds. I've only ever done this with my co-sleepers though. My first three babies were in cribs all the time. My last two in my bed (and was the sleep soooo much better for both of us!!). And I do wake up right before he wakes up to nurse.

 

Several of our friends as well as my husband and I are practicing EC. However, we are all also using disposables rather than going diaper free. I've got lots of good online references, but don't want to hijack this post. PM me if interested. Maybe I'll post something in the First Year forum.