I had thought things would be better by now ...

My boys turned one last week, and I'm glad I didn't know when they were born what things would be like at this age, because I wouldn't have made it to this day! My two still don't STTN, they nurse 5-6 times a day (actually taking more time than 2 months ago because they've stopped cooperating with tandem nursing), and they're super clingy and on me constantly or screaming if I'm in the other room. They don't nap more than 30-45 minutes, more than 2x a day, and can't make it past 5pm without melting down, so get up everyday at 5am. Plus now with solids I spend any 'spare' time prepping and cleaning the kitchen! I'm so darn sick and tired of this ...

So what have I tried to do about this other than griping? Well, I'll admit to some wishful thinking that they'll 'grow out of it'. I have done modified CIO (graduated extinction) with some success - A has STTN five times since he was born, but S never does and usually wakes up A. DH has resisted full CIO but we might be at that point. In an attempt to get them to nap better, I decided to nurse them before putting them down, and now I'm stuck that they won't go to sleep another way. I've tried pushing their schedule later by small increments, but keep getting to a point where napping falls apart and they're super grouchy all day, until we go back to the 5pm bedtime. I've tried leaving them in the crib until 6am, but they just cry day after day. Maybe I'm just not being tough enough. It's so hard to be tough when I'm always so exhausted, so I'm in a vicious circle!

Sorry to be so negative with one of my first posts in this forum, but I'm so ... very ... tired! I know my boys are only 10-1/2 months adjusted age, so maybe I just need to hang in a little longer and they'll grow out of it? *wry smile*

 

Hugs to you. Sounds like you are ready to explode. If it were me, and it was me around that age, I would do full blown CIO. I had to with one of mine around 11 months. It worked in 3 nights, like magic. I found that naps also got better when doing CIO at night. I would try to get them on a pretty good routine, where they are napping and going to bed at the same time. They'll catch on. Their naps and bedtime seem off to me. At that age, I believe mine would nap around 10am and 2pm and go to bed around 7pm and get up around 7am, maybe a little earlier. I could be a little off on that. What time are you putting them down for a nap if they are getting up at 5am? I'm sure other moms will give you better advice about the nursing. I'm thinking that I probably wouldn't be nursing at night after they go to bed. Not sure if you even are. That might help them STTN, if they don't expect it. Other than being super strict, I don't know what else to tell you to do. Hang in there. It does get easier. I promise.

 

Hi, we were in the same place at a year. Ours were waking up 1-3 times per night (each). We were still bottle feeding a bit to get them back to sleep. At one year, we decided we couldn't take it anymore. The sleep deprivation was horrible. I kept waiting for them to magically outgrow this and STTN. We finally went to a sleep specialist to come up with a plan. I really needed someone to help me. I was so anxious and afraid I was neglecting their needs by letting them cry. We did a modified CIO. We still provided verbal reassurance for them, but we did not pick them up or touch them. For the night feeding, we weaned them by reducing one oz per night. The first 3 nights were tough, but better after that.

The day time naps continued to be a problem for a while as they were transitioning to one nap. Mine started STTN, but the naps were only 45 minutes or so. It took some time, but now our naps are about 2 hours and consistently good. They still have issues with sleep when they are sick or teething. But otherwise, our second year has been much better. I feel like a human again now that I sleep. It made a huge difference in our quality of life at home.

I saved a detailed description of our sleep plan. If you want me to post it, just let me know. Beth

 

:hug: Let me start by saying that you are AWESOME for nursing this long and making it through the first year :woman:

I can't even imagine how tired you must be! I honestly don't have much advice other then to be consistent with what ever method you decide to do. I would also make sure that no matter what time they are up in the morning make sure that they aren't up for longer then 3-4 hours. At that age mine were still on two naps, one from 9-11am and the other from 2-4 with a bedtime at 7.

It will get better! :hug:

 

:bow2: for nursing this long! You go Momma!
I agree with Brigette, whatever method of sleep training you are going to use, be consistent with it. You may also have do to the same with nap time. When mine were 12 months, they were still taking 2 naps a day and we still were on a 2-3-4 nap schedule...1st nap 2 hours after waking for the day, 2nd nap 3 hours after waking from the 1st nap, by the time 4 hours after the 2nd nap rolled around, it was their bed time. Our first nap was 9:30-11 and second nap was 2:30-4
Do you have any kind of sleep routine before nap and bedtime? Quiet time, soft lullabyes, reading, massage or anything? When my son was doing the 45 minute nap thing, I would check on him and make sure his diaper wasn't dirty and put him back to sleep (doing a shorter version of our nap routine).
It does get better, hang in there Momma :hug:

 

My boys begin melting down around 5pm, regardless of when they get up. Sometimes they'll nurse at 5 then go back to sleep until 6:30, but still demand bed around 5pm. They usually get up at 5am though so you can see how their naps would be way early as well. They usually get their first nap around 6:30 or 7, though I push it later if I can. That means they're getting nap number 2 around 10:30 or 11am, and getting up no later than 12:30 or 1. So they've got a long stretch to go until 5 because they won't do a third nap. That's about a 2-3-4 schedule. Just heavily shifted! Every time we try to scoot their schedule by even a small amount, their naps fall apart.

Yeah, I'm still nursing them at night. :crazy: When it's the middle of the night, it's so much easier to just nurse them and they go right down to sleep then try to soothe them another way. I did at 8 months or so work really hard at getting them to go all night without nursing and it worked for about a week then they got sick and we traveled and it all broke down. I'm now trying to reduce their nursing time by a minute every other night - we're down to 6 minutes, as well as making them wait later for nursing - they don't get a nursing until after 11pm now. These are small steps but I guess it's progress of a sort.

 

Yes, please!

Today's been bad - Up at 5am, 7:30-8:15 nap, 11:30-12:30 nap, both meltdown by 3:30. I was able to get S to sleep for 15 minutes on my lap but A wouldn't leave me alone so S woke up before he was ready. They're moaning and half-playing now. All they want is to lay on my lap and chew on my clothes. Time to put them to bed soon. Oops total meltdown. Haven't gotten a shower today or cleaned up kitchen from either solids meal. Something's gotta give.

 

:hug: :youcandoit: I'm so sorry that today has been so rough!!!
Don't worry about the house and once they go down for bedtime take it easy and relax (as much as you can!)

 

you are doing great to be nursing still! good for you! I agree that it was/is easier for me to just nurse back to sleep during the night.

one or two comments. I typically didn't do the nursing to sleep for naps though, and I did like that they would go to sleep unassisted... for me that was worth it. you might think about going back to not nursing them to sleep... I recently actually switch to 1 nap a day and for timing I thought it would be good to nurse them right before the nap... and I started doing that in their room.. baaaaad mistake. My dd was like "uh uh uh" and pointing to me, she'd want to get the last "nursing session"... even though I'd just nursed her... I have quit nursing them in their room, and its much better - they won't fuss as much anymore.

I also wonder if you can somehow treat their 5a waking as a night feeding... instead of a 1st morning... you think they would somehow be able to start sleeping through that and waking at 7a?? I'm just brain storming on this one and have no real plan, but maybe if you keep everything dark and subdued? and try to get them to go back to sleep... then wake them at 7a for the start of the day??

good luck to you! oh, one other thing, at 13 months I think ours got all 4 1st molars... that was a definite sleep killer for us! if you think that has anything to do with it, then try teething tablets or something.

 

ohhh and the last thing... several of the sleep books (Health Sleep Habits, Happy Child and Baby Whisperer, etc) mention the 45 minute intruder... something about sleep cycles being in 45 minutes... and maybe yours are never getting into the next sleep cycle. I know when I was trying to sleep train ours back around 4 months I spent a lot of time soothing and patting their backs and picking them up and putting them down immediately when they started to settle down - both those are "Baby Whisperer" techniques...

again, good luck, and I hope they can settle into a routine for you, I know its very very wearing!

 

Problem is it's hard to see how tomorrow will be any better! Or the day after or the day after ... S is now crying in his bed because he's too tired to sleep.

 

First of all I hear you, I feel you and you are doing great. Don't let this break you! We did full our CIO at 9 months on the recommendation of our pediatrician. We were so scared and felt so neglectful, but we were so tired too! It took about a week and even now they will wake up but they put themselves back to sleep. My boys are 13 1/2 months adjusted age 12 1/2.
My boys wanted bed time at 5:30pm and woke up at 4:45am. We pushed it back by 15 minutes slowly but surely. It took about three months but we are at a 7pm bedtime and 6:15 wake, it makes a world of difference. In order to get them and myself to make it those extra 15 minutes when we are all tired because of when they woke up I would distract them with something they love, a quick show, a book, a later bath time. We still do 2 naps a day 9-11 and 2-3. I find because I am home with them all day and not a morning person, it was much easier to push back those 15 minutes when I got a nap in too. When I am tired from the day and they are cranky it is too tempting to put them to bed.

Good luck. It will get better. Good luck!

 

I know exactly how tired and worn out you feel. My LOs would wake up around 3 times per night and would melt down early in the evening. You are getting great advice from everyone, so I hope you find what works the best for you! After being exhausted and cranky all the time, DH and I decided not to be afraid anymore and let them CIO. It was hard the first couple of days because I wanted the crying and madness to stop- which would stop if I would just go in and hold them. It took maybe 4 nights of this and it really was dramatically different once they realized we were not going to help them. They were sleepy enough to wear themselves out and eventually fall asleep. Now, if they wake up during the night, they just fall back asleep on their own. We feared for almost a year that one would wake the other with the screaming, but after letting them CIO, both would go back to sleep without our help, they got used to each other's behavior. For us it was the best thing we could have done. We just made sure they were full, they had clean diapers, they were comfortable (as well as their bedroom temperature, darkness, etc.). Our schedule now is bedtime at around 7:30. Wake up from 6:30 to 7:00. Nap around 10:30 or 11:00. They can't seem to make it more than 4 hours, so on the days they can take an afternoon nap, they will nap at 3:30 or 4:00. When they miss their afternoon nap they meltdown around 5:30. On these days I do my best to distract them and drag out the going to bed process until 7:00. It is hardsometimes, but just be consistent and know it does get better!

Good luck, let us know how things turn out!

 

Hi! I know some of this doesn't match your situation exactly, but hopefully it will help. We've taken the basic principals and applied adjusted them over time. But it has worked very well for us. We have a much better quality of life this year with sleep! Hang in there.

Here is the info from the sleep specialist--
For our twins development (one year-11 months age adjusted) we were certain they didn’t need to keep eating at night. Our belief is they were eating for comfort (and we were feeding them because it was the fastest way to get them back to sleep!).

Put them to bed at a consistent time every night. She believes the earlier the better. We agreed upon 7:30 due to my DH’s work schedule. 6:30 or 7 would be even better. Have a regular routine in place for bedtime (story book, soft music, cuddles, pj’s, bottle etc). Make sure they have a lovey. Find something they can snuggle with and use for soothing (instead of you!). When it comes to actual bed time, place them in bed and leave the room.

We separated our twins in 2 rooms while we were sleep training. Eventually we moved my DD back in the room with her brother. It's possible to keep them in the same room, but we didn't. (Side note-now they are in the same room and mostly sleep through each other's crying).

If one is still crying at 5 minutes, go back in and check on him. Walk half way between the door and the crib. Verbally reassure him that he is okay, and you love him. Don’t pick him up or touch him. Just talk to him kindly and leave. If he continues to cry, go back and check at 10 minutes, and then 15 minute intervals until he falls asleep.

Don’t go back in the room if they are just fussing or crying intermittently. This means they are getting closer to sleep, but still fighting it a bit.

Weaning-Start off giving him the highest number of ounces he is consuming at night (or minutes of nursing). We started our DD at 5 oz. Reduce one ounce per night until no more feeding (or reduce minutes of nursing). Feed him twice per night. We picked out 12 midnight and 3 am. The idea is to try and schedule the two feedings about an hour before they normally wake up during the night. So when he wakes and cries later, you can be sure he isn’t really hungry since you just fed him (this helped a lot with my anxiety and guilt!). You can adjust the times to fit your situation.

If he wakes up at night crying-
Use the 5, 10, 15 minute interval training again. Don’t pick him up or touch him. Just provide verbal reassurance. If it is only fussing or short crying, don’t go in the room.

Don’t start this if--
1-he is sick (even a cold with a runny nose will cause a problem)
2-he is actively learning to walk
3-he is cutting a tooth in the next 2 days or so
4-you are on vacation or have visitors at home
These are not good times for babies to learn about sleep.

The first couple of nights were difficult. We were up a lot and both kids cried. I had a lot of anxiety and couldn’t sleep much. My DS adjusted to the new sleep schedule after a few nights. He SSTN for 11 hours and rarely wakes up. If he wakes up now it’s usually because he’s wet or teething.
My DD usually sleeps 10 hours. She is a bit more difficult sleeper, but is much better this year.

We don’t apply the sleep program if they are sick. When they had colds recently, we got up, held them and occasionally gave them bottles if they couldn’t sleep. We waited until their noses were clear before going back to the sleep schedule. Once they learn the schedule well, it’s okay to be off for a few days. It’s fairly easy to get them back on track.

 

I'm so sorry things are difficult right now as far as sleep. I would definitely night wean them. Yes, it is easier to nurse them back to sleep, but in the long run it will be easier to night wean. I night weaned mine at 10 months and I'm so glad I did. It took 2 nights of CIO. I did go down there to check on them and then I left. I offered a cup of water in case they were thirsty. (We had done CIO a couple of other times when they were younger). They WILL stop waking to eat if you are not feeding them. Ours go down between 6-6:30 p.m. They used to wake up between 5:15-6:00 a.m. Lately they have been sleeping in until 6 or 6:30 a.m. It's been great! Their naps still aren't perfect (DS takes mostly short naps), but at least they sleep great at night. DS naps 30-45 minutes most of the time and I haven't been able to lengthen his naps. He will take a longer nap if he is on one nap a day, but right now I am keeping him on 2 naps a day so he and DD are on the same schedule.

You could also try cutting back the nursing to maybe 4 times a day. This might give you a bit of a break. We are still nursing about 4 times a day here.

Please keep us posted on how things are going!

 

oh man i can hear the panic and sleep deprived pain you are going thru:give_rose:, at 1 yr you do not need to feed them at all-nursing or bottle; they just dont require it and it makes them break up the sleep you all so desperately need. I was only able to BFd and pump til 6 months so kuddo's to you for taking it to a year --keep a sippy cup of water in their crib but they probably are not thirsty 3-4 times a nite -its a habit thats hard to break but one that needs to be done--
you dont want them at 2 yrs still trying to get you up 3,4,5 times a nite zzzzzzzzz --

here is our typical day

wake up time 7:30am
bottle,breakfeast -8:00am
playtime
nap-11:00-1pm
lunch-1:30 pm
playtime
dinner-4:00pm
playtime til 6:00pm-bottle,wine down and ready for bed for 6:30pm
SSTTN unless one is sick then that changes the plan and im exhausted and sleep deprived:laughing:

it wont be easy to wean from what i heard it "can" be difficult when they dont want to give it up-but for your sanity i would:drinks:

 

I don't really have any clear cut advice to give because I can only go on my own experiences. . . Just wanted to commiserate with you and wishing it would let up on you soon!

I will say though - my guys are 20 months tomorrow, and I am still nursing them at bedtime. I was pretty legalistic about breastfeeding them (instead of formula or even a bottle, I never gave them a bottle), and looking back, I wished I hadn't been that ridiculous. It wasn't worth the stress and hurting that it put on my own health. I am now seeing a dermatologist for alopecia areata (my hair started falling out) with a suspected culprit of nutritional deficiencies from too much nursing as well as the general stress wear and tear from not getting enough rest, etc. My relationships with my other children and my husband have not been taken care of well either.

When my guys hit 18 months, I finally decided that I needed to let them wean gradually. It's changed my life for the best to let go of the pressure to breastfeed like a Nazi. I LOVE BREASTFEEDING MY BABIES! BUT. . . but when it starts to render a mother so completely exhausted, depleted and stressed, it's not good for the babies and other family members either. I think now, I would advise a mother who is getting to that point - not to give up nursing altogether, but to change her attitude about it and consider scaling back.

Also, after having 5 kids, I have learned that it is not in my children's best interest to let them determine their own bedtimes and meals. . . Sounds cruel, but Momma and Daddy still know best what is good for their own babies. I tried to combine using their cues with my own parenting common sense to come up with consistent routines and to provide sound nutrition. Trust me, my 9 year old still will cry if he doesn't get the junk he really wants for supper. . . He wants it, but I don't give it to him because it's not good for him. My 3 year old still fights sleep, but I put down rules (like "you have to stay in your bed and look at books until you fall asleep, you can't come out of your room") because she needs that boundary to set up good habits that will affect her health positively for the rest of her life. And my husband and I need the sanity of a little quiet time.

We tried to execute our "parenting philosophy" with ALWAYS a great measure of compassion for our children. Talking about CIO is still not easy for me because there have been points that I wanted to embrace that completely, but I never have. I will say that 1 year old is old enough for a baby to STTN unless he or she has health issues. My pediatrician recently told my sister, a mom to a 6 month old, that 6 months old is the time to start encouraging STTN and letting some crying go down IF the baby hasn't gravitated toward STTN him/herself. My sister was having quite a time getting her little girl to sleep more than 2 hours straight, but after getting this greenlight from the doc, she and her husband decided to set bedtime routines, work towards daytime schedules, and let their little girl CIO for no more than 1 hour for a trial period of 2 weeks. Amazingly, my niece was STTN the night 3 nights later and has never looked back. It changed my sister and her husband's life of course! Sometimes hearing someone that you trust, like your pediatrician, say such things really helps you get your confidence to try and take control of the situation.

I do hope things will get better for you soon. You've worked very hard, and I bet you've done an excellent job of caring for those babies!

 

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and support! I'm starting full-blown CIO tonight. I've done the lesser versions - check and console, interval training, etc - and they don't seem to 'stick' with one of my boys. Hopefully he'll get the message tonight! Gonna be a long night ... :umm:

 

:youcandoit: :hug: That was the only thing that worked for my kids and it just sucks the first night, but you can get through it!!

ps--I just noticed you live in SJ.. I grew up in South San Jose/Morgan Hill. Small world :lol:

 

Good luck! :hug:

:youcandoit:

Fantastic job on nursing for so long!!! It sounds like it would be really beneficial to you (and them) to wean them from the overnight feedings - and CIO will do that. I had to do that with my oldest son as he was still nursing multiple times a night at 13 months - it came to the point when I just had to let him cry a bit b/c obviously he wasn't hungry, he was just waking up and wanting to nurse back to sleep. Who wouldn't want to fall back asleep all cozy? :lol:

You guys will get through this. :hug:

 

Hey, how did it go last night? I hope things turn around soon; I don't think there's anything worse than sleep deprivation. Keep us posted! :hug: