Tabasco Sauce

Hello,

I am overwhelmed with my twin's behavior. Seriously, I have tried everything and I have read every book available. Nothing works with my kids. Our biggest form of punishment at this time is locking them in their rooms because they won't sit in timeout. Spankings do not impress them and we use a wooden spoon on their bare bottoms. The most common reasons for discipline . . .

DS . . . whining (constantly), disobedience, physical contact

DD . . . tantrums, back talking, pure sassiness, physical contact

I am truly considering trying Tabasco sauce on their tongues as a form of punishment. We have a bottle that I purchased one day because I had a coupon for it and I've threatened its use for the last 24 hours; however, I haven't yet. I told DH tonight that I think they need a taste in order to truly fear it. Do you think this is torture? I just don't know what to do. My kids are driving me and DH crazy. I just want them to listen.

I taught second grade for 10 years prior to having children and all I had to do to thmy students was to raise my voice and give them "the look" and they knew I meant business. My children are not threatened by me or DH in anyway.

Please HELP!

 

Three years old is such a very hard age. I think most parents on here (with kids 3 or older) will agree to that. There are some exceptions, but for the most part 3 is the hardest age I think. Mine have a way of pushing every one of my buttons, especially my DS. I've been learning that the more I react to them in a negative manner, the more it escalates. I'm a natural yeller, but I find that if I start yelling or trying to change their behavior all the time, it escalates. At this age, they are still trying to figure out their independence and how they are supposed to act. I found at one point, I had started spanking and it was out of anger that they were acting this way or treating me poorly. So, that has ended. I don't believe that me spanking them was doing any good except to make them scared and I do NOT want my kids scared of me. I want them to be able to come to me with their problems or anything else in the future and not be scared that I'm going to flip out on them (which I was doing). I don't believe that hitting or spanking in response to them hitting/kicking/biting is going to teach them that they can't do that b/c you're doing the exact same thing you're telling them is wrong. That is not to say there isn't a way to spank in a controlled manner (and I'm not going to even get into that debate...I think we've seen many threads lead down that path), but if you do it out of anger b/c they hit then it's sending the wrong message IMO. I have never heard of using Tobasco Sauce as a form of punishment, but my DH says that had heard of it. As a child, my parents occasionally put a bar of soap in my mouth for talking back and I have very vivid memories of that. I was also older than your kids. I would look at possibly talking to your pediatrician and see if what you're experiencing is normal. I know that I started a thread the other day about my DS that has a very short fuse and uses hitting/kicking/punching as his first way of handling any situation that isn't going his way. We're trying to do a lot of Love and Logic (if you haven't read those books, it's wonderful!), but it's so hard when you're in the moment. We are going to make an appt. with his pedi. and then with a pediatric psych to help us work on the behaviors. It's going to be a lot of work on our (me and DH) part, but hopefully it will help our family life overall. It's so stressful when your kids aren't minding you and constantly argue or egg eachother on. Add in the phsysical aspect and it can set you over the edge. I feel you, I do. I just don't know if I'd go as far as using the same punishments as you. It's just not my comfort level and I'd rather work on the behaviors and modifying them maybe with natural consequences rather than making my kids scared of my reaction or what punishment I might serve. They do need to learn to respect you and other adults (and children), but I'm not sure this is the way to do it. You may get some different responses based on locations as well. Different parts of the country use different punishments, so I don't know how common this form of punishment is where you live. Good luck in whatever you decide. Parenting is so hard!! And two 3 yr. olds are VERY HARD! Hang in there.

 

i haven't gotten to that point yet but i wouldn't consider that acceptable punishment. seems kind of cruel and unusual. good luck!

 

Have you tried a behavior chart? Or taking away privileges? How consistent are you with your discipline techniques? When are you having the most problems? During transitions from play to lunch, from lunch to errands, etc? Maybe if you could highlight the *worst* times of the day for your two we could all look at what is going on (as best as possible when reading it) and give ideas or suggestions for certain situations? :hug:

Tabasco Sauce on the tongue does not seem like a discipline technique, but more of a "I've had it and I don't know what else to do, so I'm going to try something that I know will hurt." I can't imagine how frustrated you are right now, with 2 three year olds who are misbehaving so much - but I would hate for you to do something that you (and they) might look back on one day and feel guilt and/or resentment (them). Tabasco Sauce seems harsh and strictly like punishment instead of discipline. And what happens if after a few times of Tabasco Sauce they decide they don't mind that, either? You can't keep increasing the sting/pain/discomfort with new things, you know?

 

I agree with you both. This is something I would have never considered previously. I'm just at a loss and a little frustrated. I'm trying to figure out what will make an impact on my children. Thanks for your opinions . . . I need them. I obviously don't want to do anything that is cruel.

Again, thanks!

 

We are not to the 3 year mark yet, but I don't think I would use this as a form of punishment. Have you ever read 1-2-3 Magic or tried this approach for discipline. My DS didn't respond well to TO's, but once I started using this approach, things got better. I found that it keeps me from losing my cool, too. If I stay calm, things go much more smoothly and they tend to respond to me better.

I have to agree with Jori, too. It does seem like it is more for punishment rather than discipling and teaching them.

 

:hug: So sorry you are having such a hard time. Remember, this will not last forever. It's a really hard stage, but it WILL pass. Maybe you could try something like a reward chart or taking away privileges. I've heard other moms talk about finding the kid's "currency" - the thing that matters to them a lot and really motivates them. Maybe for your kids it's TV, a favorite toy, a favorite food, something special about their day. Maybe if you help them to learn that these are privileges and not rights by talking to them. Then, start taking the privileges away only when they misbehave or allow them only if they get a certain number of stickers on a chart. It might help to commit to one method and ONLY use that method, for say 2 weeks. Then, at the end of those weeks you could assess what's really working or not... and if it's not... move on to the next thing and try IT for 2 weeks, etc. But, if you're still locking them in their rooms and spanking them while doing other stuff, it might make it hard to tell what is having what effect, you know? I'm so sorry you're frustrated and really hope you can find something that works for you. :grouphug:

 

NEVER let them see you sweat! You might be reacting to their behavior and therefore they are getting a rise out of you. I also recommend 1-2-3 magic. I know you think you are beyond time outs, but it's worth a shot. What about Love and Logic classes in your area?

The keys to 1-2-3 magic is not to be emotional with them when handing out discipline. (HARD!) It's more a matter of fact type "Well, you chose to break the rules, so I HAVE to do this." They will sit in time out if you follow through. Also, the 1-2-3 is QUICK READ! SUPER FAST!

The NUMBER 1 thing to remember is if you threaten, you MUST MUST MUST follow through CONSISTENTLY! There's no other way. If you ever back down, they will run all over you.

I can tell you are at your wits end! Please pick up a book or talk to your pediatrician or something to get some help soon!!! :hug: It's a tough age!! Don't be too hard on yourself!!! :hug:

 

I personally think it is fine. I tried everything with my son and the only thing that works is soap in the mouth. I never had to go to tabasco because soap works just fine. He has only gotten it twice and we don't have fights like we used to and he doesn't back talk any more. He always gets one worning and then the soap comes out. Some may think this is cruel but there are much worse things I could be doing and for us it works. He doesn't like it and he respects the rules because of it. Best of luck as I know how frustrating it can be!

 

I will just echo some things already said. We are just into our 3's and they are very hard. The tantrums have escalated, they back talk, they are very, very stubborn. I love the book 123 Magic. It has taught me how to take more control of my actions. I would love to wring their necks on some days, much like you wanting to use Tabasco, but its wrong. Instead, I work on being consistent and thinking that it will get better in another year. We work very hard to enforce it around here and that is the only thing that works. I have made it to 3, I know I can do another and so can you. :hug:

 

I agree with the other pp's, it's not terrible 2's, it's terrible 3's. With all three of my children the 3's were the worse. The new found level of independence, pushing buttons, wanting their own way, it all hits at once..so it seemed to me. I resorted to screaming and yelling and threatening my son all the time...nothing worked and I found a new level of frustration. It took me a long time to figure out that the more I praised him, the better he did for me. So, with my girls, I really tried to praise them for anything they did that was praise worthy..helping each other, helping me, whatever. They really responded well. I find that when it gets crazy, to start finding things to praise them for, and soon they are wanting more praise so they start turning around. Also, if things start spinning out of control, sometimes just having them sit down with me and color or draw will help get things back under control. Children really want your attention..one way or another...if I'm not giving enough they are going to start screaming and fighting until they get it. It happened to me with my son, and I really didn't realize that's what it was all about until he got older and started being able to verbalize with me what was going on. Not saying you aren't giving them enough attention, but just suggesting something else before you result to something more drastic. Try to up the praise...shower them with it..and see if that helps. They will test you to see if you are for real, but you may just be surprised!

 

Tabasco is not discipline.


When my 12 yr old DD was in Kindergarten, she brought home a paper with "It's OK to be mad. It's not OK to be mean". I loved this & still have it hanging in my kitchen. Tabasco is mean.

Have not & would not use it. The 3's are very hard and trying so I do sympathize with you.

 

I personally have not used it and doubt it would work as discipline for anything but maybe using ugly words - But I would not condemn you for it.

 

I was out having coffee with some mommy friends yesterday and this conversation came up. I have a friend who has a 4 1/2 year old daughter. I was telling her how we've started having some issues with Sarah (3.5) and sassy talk. She said that at 3.5 they started using Tabasco sauce for sassy talk and she was able to extinguish it just by using it twice. Everyone at the table got quiet and my friend was quick to point out that it's a lot better than using soap, like our parents used on us. My friend is an excellent mom and her kids are happy and well-adjusted.

I'm not sure how I feel about it, to be honest, but I truly do understand your frustrations.

 

I don't even know what to say. A wooden spoon for spanking is not working, so now you are going to step it up to something that hurts more? What if that doesn't work, what's next? Maybe it's time to reevaluate your discipline techniques.

 

My husband and I are having some problems with our boys not listening and I have been trying to find some good books to read and get some new ideas. We try to watch super nanny often and try to do the things that she teaches but my gosh is it hard. I have a short fuse these days and get VERY frustrated with them as does DH. We used to spank but never did either of us to it hard enough to get any kind of reaction out of them.

I had read and seen on TV that we spank out of anger. it does NOTHING to teach the child. We do it only to make ourselves feel better. I'd imagine the same would hold true for Hot Sauce or Soap. If it really teaching them anything? Probably not just making us feel better. On Dr. Phil just the other day he said to catch the kids doing good not bad. If you stop and think about it probably a lot more of us are telling the kids to stop doing something more then we are telling them they are being good and keep up the good work.

Catch them doing something good and reward that. Maybe the bad behavior will change? My new years resolution was to be a better mom and this is one of the things we are trying to do. If what we are doing is not changing the kids behavior we need to try something else. Its super hard when you are in the moment but the next time you need to discipline ask your self is what I'm about to do going to help my child? If not don't do it!

 

Thanks so much for all of your replies and suggestions. I especially appreciate those who sympathized and gave advice in a non-judging manner. I have not and will likely not use Tabasco Sauce; however, I was honestly at my wits end last night. I TRY not to do anything when I am angry. That's exactly why I posed the question here and further researched it online before following through. I woke up this morning feeling a little guilty for even suggesting its use. After much thought I'm over the guilt and know that I just have to find what's right for my children. I don't know exactly what that is; however, I am going to have to figure it out. I appreciate this site because you guys always bring me back down and help me better understand whatever I'm confused about. I love my children; however, sometimes I just feel as if I'm hitting my head against a brick wall . . . :headbang:

 

My guess is that your kids are exceptionally clever, intuitive, and as desperate for a more peaceful, loving environment as you are. My suggestion to you would be:

1. Lower your anxiety - they are obviously sponsoring a short fuse for you at the moment. Do what you can/need to combat that (exercise, me time to decompress, meditation, journaling, anxiety medication if necessary) as much as you can so you are on your "A" game around them. If you aren't, they'll smell the weakness and go for the throat. In our house the boys' expression of poor behavior is often correlated to DH & my level of cordiality. When things get tense/on edge between us, behavior issues pop up. We never openly fight or argue around them, but they still sense the tension and that is reflected in their behavior.


2. Change your outlook - You stated, "My children are not threatened by me or DH in anyway." Perhaps you would have more success if you focused your energy on getting them to be respectful instead of threatened. 3-year olds are parrots! They are going to mimic not only your vocab, but your tone. Modeling and positively reinforcing the respect you expect from them is treating them like the big kids they want to be and goes a hell of a lot further than verbal/mental intimidation and physical punishment (which actually reinforces the behavior you are wanting to negate). Threatening/intimidating them will only get you kids who 1. are frustrated that they are being dominated/controlled (I do it myself!) and 2. are afraid of you. The former gets you nowhere but frustrated right now, the later gets you nowhere and frustrated down the road when your preteens/teens can't confide in you b/c they don't trust or respect you, which makes you unapproachable.


3. Keep 'em busy - one of my most useful parenting tools is 'stations'. When they are having a tough day getting along (and I'm trying to get something done), I separate them into quiet activities (Tag readers, word building, writing practice, magnet storyboards, audio books, etc.) in different rooms. Stations offers me a little time to recharge my patience meter (and get dinner on the table!) while also giving them some time to decompress from one another (competing for toys, my attention, etc). The activities we do during stations are not free play activities so they are novel for the kids and hold their interest much longer than throwing them into a room alone with the bucket of cars they see on the shelf everyday. Twenty minutes of independently engaged preschooler is pretty valuable in this house.


4. Positive reinforcement - set a time (20-30m) each morning and afternoon (assume you are SAHM) with them for a parent & kid activity (craft, imaginative play, cooking project, etc.). Schedule this activity at a time when your patience is at its peak (say right after 'stations') and concentrate your efforts on making this activity (it might only be 5 or 10 minutes the first few times) positive and fun interaction for everyone. The positive interaction is contagious and will breed just as well as the negative reinforcement they have been feeding off. SHOW them how to play with their toys (that doesn't mean they have to be played with the 'right'/intended way, just how to play nicely together, how to make the toys work, how to take turns/compromise, etc). This concentrated, positive attention from mommy will pay you back tenfold b/c your kids will be able to better entertain themselves during free-play times.


5. Attentive observation - I know you're frustrated with your kids right now. I used to think one of mine was a likely sociopath. Until I took the time to sit back and make attentive observations of him. What appears at first glance to be a naughty, mean boy, was actually the behavioral expression of a kid who was stressed out by the competition for toys/attention and a repertoire that didn't include a skill set for asking for affection and attention. What a gift that observation was! To take the time to truly see what your kids are trying to tell you with their misbehavior (w/o being threatened by the implications of one's parenting) is so worth the time it takes to figure out the translations. I now have a map to his emotions and can smell trouble far before it hits and detour him with my attention, affection, praise, or giving him space (often from his brother).


6. Individual attention - The more one-on-one time I can give my kids, the better behaved, more genuinely affectionate, and kinder they are overall. Building one-on-one time with each child (both parents together and individually with each parent) is one of our family resolutions this year. We have it built into the family schedule so it doesn't get overtaken by the business of everyday life. I even enlisted the help of the retired ILs to spend time with one boy for 3 hours each Friday while I spend time doing academic things with the other every week. The ILs were thrilled to have the chance to do all those activities that just don't work with two snatchy, busy 3-year olds (the gingerbread house disaster comes to mind); I'm thrilled to give them the attention they've been begging for in the reading department. One-on-one time is such a great way to get to know your kids better and to have so many conversations (yes, even at 3) that you wouldn't otherwise have had with the other in the room.



I'm not trying to say my kids are perfectly behaved...far from it, they are 3! They still test my patience and I consider throwing one (or all three of us) off the deck weekly. However, doing the 6 things I mentioned above has truly changed the entire way our household functions and the way I feel about my competence to effectively parent (my kids). We've all had pareting moments where our (lack of) patience got the better of us and we wish we could undo what happened. Don't beat yourself up over what HASN'T worked in the past, instead, focus that energy into finding a solution and making the effort to be open to different approaches that may yield more desirable results. You deserve to enjoy your kids and they deserve to have a happy, relaxed mama.

 

Hi Stephanie!
Great advice, so far!
I have a few thoughts that I wanted to add. I think it's important to remember that all of the things your kids are doing are completely normal for thier age (right down to driving us crazy!).

Try to think of ways to address each issue, rather than one set discipline measure for all behaviors. Basically, what are you trying to TEACH them? Take your DD's constant whining, for example. First, why is she whining all the time? Do you/ others give her what she wants when she whines? How do you want her to ask/ state/ complain about things? Teach her what you expect. She's at a great age that you can actually explain things and they understand! Tell her that you notice when she wants something, that she tells you in a funny voice, called whining. Demonstrate the whining (Say, "I want it now" in an exaggerated whine to let her know exactly what you mean).. She might even think it's funny. That's fine. Now demonstate the same statement in "big girl or polite" voice. Tell her when she wants something, she needs to ask in a big girl voice. The next time she whines, repeat what she is asking for in a big girl voice and tell her try again in her big girl voice. I actually don't even require a please at this stage, becasue I'm not focusing on manners and sometimes we get caught up in that (there are other occasions to work on manners). When she asks in a polite voice, try to give her what she is asking for, mainly to reward the behavior. You can even say, I like the way you asked.
If she's whining while shes complaining, cue her by saying "big girl voice". You might even have to modle what she's trying to say. So, if she's whining about eating her peas, you can say "Mom, I don't want to eat my peas. Now, you try". Then, it's up to you. I would acknowledge that she doesn't want her peas and try a compromise (have 3 bites and that will be fine). Instead of sending her to time out, using tabasco, or taking away a privilage, try working with her what you actually want her to do instead of what you don't want her to do. Notice times when shes not whining and talk openly about it (while not in a struggle). Make her aware and set clear expectations. Be consistent. The results WILL pay off. It might take a while, but just rember that you are teaching her. She's going to test the limits and the key is to not give in when she whines.

Take some time with your Dh to brainstorm your reactions to the mentioned behaviors. Think about what you want to teach them. The only one would give time out for is physical contact- and let them know it's totally unacceptable, the first time/every time. First, work out with them want they could have done instead of hit (used their words, walked away, ask for help), then a time out.

For tantrums, can you create a "cool down" area. "I know you are upset/ angry. Please go take a breakon the beanbag chair until you are done screaming." You can try having a quiet area that they can go to to color, cut with scissors, putty, squueze a squishy ball, jump up and down...anything that is reasonable to reliefe their stress and calm them down. If the chld is trying to engage you, walk away, go into your room and close the door for a minute, whatever you have to do to not get into it with him. Also, try to pin point the triggers and work on solutions for tose problem areas.

I can see that you are so frustrated and just want to have kids that listen and behave! It's not asking for much, is it?
It takes a lot work, having appropriate reactions. I once heard someone say "It's my job to RESPOND, not to REACT". I say this several times outloud while I try to collect my toughts. I've had to remind myself that I am the grown up! But, I'm happy to say that my twins (who are turning 6 this month!) are great! I think all of my hard work has paid off, especailly when I hear their friends constant whining! ( Do something about it now or you'll still be listening to it it three years! YIKES!).

Are you a SAHM? Do you get a break, get to do anything without kids?
Good luck!

 

I just want to say THANK YOU for posting this information. I have been reading parenting books like there is no tomorrow and either I have the wrong ones or this info is just not in them. So thank you for taking time out of what I know is a busy day to write this. I know its going to help me more then I can even tell you.

 

I completely agree with Diane. 1-2-3 Magic works great, never let them see you sweat because they'll feed on that, and consistency is key. I would never use tabasco as a discipline method because it is punishment rather than disciplining to teach them the behavior I expect of them. We use 1-2-3 Magic consistently, along with a responsibility chart. We do also take away privileges if warranted. My girls had a whole lot of timeouts when they were 2 but timeouts at age 3 have been very rare. They hear us start counting and the behavior stops for the most part.

 

I do not think it is cruel and I think some of the people on here seem to "always" pass judgement. I am sure you are a great mom and a little hot sauce on a tongue for a smart mouth would not be the end of the world! Good luck what ever you do! I have a 5 year old who is pushing my limits as well!!!

 

There's also a good book called "How to Talk So Your Children Will Listen and Listen So Your Children Will Talk" by Faber and Mazlish. Some of their suggestions have worked really well for our family, and 3 is just about the age when they really start being able to communicate in a sophisticated way.