More questions about my demon child, she is not affected by TOs, I put her in her high chair and have her face a wall and set the timer for 2mins, SHE DOESN'T CARE! :headbang: Any other suggestions for "punishments" for these outlandish behaviors??? Thanks!
What do you mean "she doesn't care"? Does she come out of TO and repeat the offense?? If so, I would keep sticking her back in TO. She might spend all day (literally) in TO, but I think if you stay consistent and stick to yours guns she will realize you are not going to back down.
I agree. She will care....eventually. :hug: Cohlee! Sorry she is causing you so much stress! I hope she starts cooperating soon!
Find something she does care about! You know your demon child little girl and I don't, so I'll just toss out some things that work for my kids: saying that I will... -take away their favorite sweatshirt/boots/whatever the clothing obsession du jour is -take away Pooh bear (they each have a stuffed Pooh bear as their lovey) (this is the real nuclear option) -not nurse before nap (if infraction is right before naptime - useless if there's too long a delay between behavior and consequence) -put away the vacuum cleaner (their favorite "toy" right now, they beg me to "make noise" with it all day) -not give x back (if they're throwing toys down the stairs) -take x away (if they're trying to break/rip it) We do some occasional TOs too, but usually it's these kind of things that work the best on my kids, especially my DS (=demon son :crazy: ).
Everyone else has great suggestions. If you can explain what you mean by "she doesn't care", maybe I can help a little more. So sorry she's giving you grief. One of my sons was in TO like 30 times before noon yesterday... but overall, I still think it works really well if done consistently. :hug:
She is not affected by TOs, she used to cry when I put her on TO and feel bad for what she did and give me a hug when it was over. Now she just sits there and laughs or yells hooray when the timer goes off, and about 50% of the time she will go right back to doing what she was doing beforehand and go right back to TO. Also the "threat" of TO does nothing, if I say "stop doing X, do you want to go on TO?" She says YES!
I've been reading a book called "The Way of Boys". I know you have girls, but he does have a part in there about what to do when time-outs don't work. It's by a psychologist who was alarmed at the rate of kids being diagnosed with add or adhd by a doctor going down a checklist. One mom in the book's son had been diagnosed by a school official talking to the mom over the phone. He's big on giving parent's tools to change behaviours. Even if they need other helps and therapies or something, he takes the point that you still need tools to deal with the behaviour. He suggests time-aways instead of the traditional time-outs. Tell them to go to their room and come back when they are calm. Don't check on them, don't hover. By asking them to go to your room you are totally withdrawing your attention from the tantrum. Girls are highly adept at reading body language and even in the corner, you're glancing at her or her sister will notice her and glance. That's possibly enough attention to make it worth it. By telling her to come out when she is call calm, you're giving her control over her punishments. And if she comes out to see that you and her sister have been having fun without her, as she gets older she'll realize that her sister enjoys it when she goes to her room. And if she won't go to her room, you take her sister and leave the room. Alot of tantruming is attention. Without an audience it just isn't as satisfying. He also suggests giving kids who have physical anger something to hit, punch, or take their aggression out on. When they start getting mad, tell them that that feeling is angry and when they are angry, they can hit this pillow, or punching bag. Maybe when she starts getting mad suggest that let's go to your room and get your angry pillow. Give her a way to be angry without causing harm. Some of the other things he suggests is working on eye contact and clear short, concise rules. Before you go somewhere, make eye contact. Tell both of the girls "here are the rules. No hitting. No yelling. Stay with mommy." And then don't budge until both of them repeat the rules back while looking at you. He suggests practice errands (that aren't highly critical) where you can use these rules and if broken, immeadiately leave the store and go home to show that you mean it. The other thing that he focused on was you staying calming. Kids love reactions. And she will be filing away everything she does that gets a bigger reaction out of you. When you have to ignore her sister and totally deal with her, in her mind, that one of the greatest reaction's you can have. That's why he suggests time-away. You totally stop the reaction. Try to stay in the positive/neutral reactions when dealing with her. Find things to be positive about with her. When she starts being naughty, send her to time-away without discussing it and just tell her to come back when she's ready to be calm. It gives her a consistent reaction from you. It gives her power over what she gets to do. Good luck. Even though the book is alot about boys, I found alot of ideas and tactics that help me with both kids. Marissa
Marissa, that was awesome, thank you!! I am definitely going to try a few of those ideas, like something to hit when she is mad, and the practice errands! I can't really send her to her room yet because our room is downstairs and I don't want her down there unsupervised, but I can however, grab her sister from the playroom until demongirl clams down.
You're welcome. I just really liked that book because the only time time-out was talked about was in the context of "what do you do when time-outs don't work". It gave a lot of straight-forward ideas on how to handle things like when you're child is being a bully, how to handle dealing with teachers and other professionals who also have interactions with your child. I've been using the time-away with Timothy (he's a pretty good child that has some moments) and I can tell a difference with me and him. When he's in time-out in the room I'm in, I watch out of the corner of my eye. I see the fidgeting and giggling and I just feel my blood pressure rising. When I send him to his room, I get time to get calm inside my head again and he can fidget without getting a reaction from me. He comes down when he's calm again and usually finds me and Sarah snuggled up reading or playing a game and really behaves better because he wants to be part of what we're doing. Good Luck. And another part of book talked about imagining your child grown up. And imagine what an asset that strong personality can be when channeled. Imagine her having the guts to stand up when something is wrong. Imagine her using her strong-will to get through a class in college that weeds out alot of kids. Imagine her using that passion and energy for doing something she loves. Marissa
We don't do time outs and have discovered its not effective anyway if the child is not affected by 'consequence'. Time Away is a great idea!
Marissa, that was awesome. :bow2: Off topic for one second. Marissa, does it happen to say if we put them in their room if they don't go willingly? And what if they keep getting out of their room, put them back? ardon:
After reading 1-2-3 Magic, we have been doing more time away than time out.....just placing them in their room away from everybody else VS. sitting them in a booster seat in the corner of the dining room. I think it is working out well.
I don't know that it dealt with that specifically. He did suggest that if they are tantruming and won't go to their room, that everyone else leave that space and go in their rooms and close their doors. Leave the child tantruming with absolutely no audience. He did have an example of a mom said she would use that when her son wouldn't go to his room. They would all leave and go to their rooms and in a few minutes she would hear stomping and her son going to his room when the audience left. He's an advocate of the child getting to pick when they come out of the room. So I imagine that it would go something like this? You put the child in the room and tell them to come out when they can play nicely. They come roaring out. Then you give them a minute or two to show if they are going to play nicely. When they don't, you take them back to their room and tell them to come out when they can play nicely. Maybe suggest they hit their angry pillow since they seem angry and then come out when they are done hitting. Let them come out and try to play again. If they come and are calm, let them stay out. If they come out and immeadiately knock things over, take them back to their room and go again. I would just suggest reading the book. It was in the new book section of our library. Every week I try and pick a new book to read and this is the one that caught my eye this week. He had so many more ideas for helping teach better behaviour along with communication and discipline. I'm probably going to do a second read on the book this week to better set things in my head. Marissa
Like pps...for bad behavior/infraction, I don't "ask" do you want a TO. I say..."if you do not stop X, you will go into a TO." When they take something, hit, etc, they go to a TO in the TO spot for 2 minutes. If the behavior is repeated, then we got back to TO. For tantrums, I tell them they will have to go to their room. When the tantrum doesn't end, I take them back there (whoever is throwing the tantrum...kicking and screaming most times) and tell them to stay there until they have calmed down and can come play nicely. I don't check on them, I don't hover, I just leave. If they come out and are still pitching a fit, back we go. Usually after about 5 minutes, he will come out, and I explain why he was back there, get a hug, and we move on.
I'm kind of late to this, but another thing you might consider is to give her as many choices as possible throughout the day. Offer her a choice between 2 items, both of which are acceptable to you. Does she want water or juice to drink? Does she want to put here shoes on first or her coat? Does she want to eat yogurt or applesauce? Does she want to wear this shirt or that shirt? Etc. She gets to feel in control which is huge at this age. If she feels in control most of the day, she might act out less often to seek control of the situation and negative attention from you. I read about this technique in the book Love and Logic for the Early Years. I really liked that book so it might be another good one to read for more ideas. It also favors the "time away" concept of having the child go to her room until she is calm and ready to behave nicely. A few other big ideas from that book are using logical consequences and enforceable statements. If she won't stop hitting her sister with a toy, then the toy is taken away for a day or two. If she won't wear a coat, let her go outside and get cold. She'll be more likely to wear it next time. Enforceable statements are ones that you can actually follow through on. So instead of saying "Stop throwing your food on the floor" say "If you throw your food on the floor, dinner is over." You can't make her stop throwing food, but you can impose a consequence for doing it.
