Mixed Signals re: Sleep Training

Sorry if this is a repeat question on what I'm sure is an ongoing and popular topic here! Our babies are 4 months old but were born at 36 weeks. They are meeting all markers of 4 month olds, and are big (Jonah is 16 pounds and Dalia is 13). They have both had a few nights of sleeping really well, sometimes as much as 9 hours! But most of the time they both get up at least one time. I have noticed that Dalia is actually able to go back to sleep on her own sometimes when I hesitate to pick her up and wait to see what she will do. I've also noticed that Jonah wakes when he could not possibly be hungry, seemingly because he wants to be held or to "hang out." We are exhausted. And I really want them to learn self-soothing and to get into a routine as soon as possible, I see some patterns starting already that are not so good. So I was thinking of starting a modified (probably more graduated) Ferber method after we get back from our Thanksgiving trip. They will be 4.5 months old by then. But I am getting SO many mixed signals about this!!!!

When we were last at the pedi, she said "at four months we can begin sleep training." I didn't press her for more info because four months seemed so far far away at that point in time and we were dealing with colic so I was much more focused on that! A FEW of my friends have made comments such as "oh, they're four months you can CIO" or "oh, they're showing you that they are capable of sleeping that long so you can start training now." But a much larger number of people have balked at the idea, insisting that all methods of sleep training should wait until 6 months of age. And online people overwhelmingly say that sleep training should wait till 6 months. I am thinking Ferber's much more graduated method should be fine (though I'm tempted to CIO sometimes!).

I'm reading his book as well as Weissbluth's HSHHC...but should I be waiting another 2 months? Are they too little? Does it matter that they were born 4 weeks early? I don't want them to learn that we don't respond to their needs!!! Are they really capable of "learning" that they don't need to get up? Should I still feed them if it has been at least 4 hours since the last time they ate and I think they might be hungry? So confused! :unknw:

 

It's your choice when you want to do sleep training. You'll get different answers from everyone as far as how you should do it and what is the right age.

When they wake up in the night to eat, are they eating? Or are they just playing with the nipple and wanting to play in the night? If they are still actually taking their bottles in the night then they are probably hungry, regardless of their age.

 

Personally I think 4 months is too young for sleep training. And the fact that they go 9 hours and/or only wake once I think it great. I would have killed for that. Mine did not STTN until they were 9.5 months old. I was exhausted.

 

Let me clarify - SOMETIMES they go 9 hours. SOMETIMES they wake only once. Much more often, I am up the entire night, because just as I get one back to sleep the other wakes, and so on. And even if I do feed them in the night, which I would do if they were hungry u(i.e., if they weren't waking 2 hours after a 7 ounce feeding), I would like to start teaching them to go to sleep on their own. Just a clarification of my original post. Thanks!

 

I would wake the other when one wakes that way at least you try to get a rhythm at night going. Have you tried offering them a paci to see if they will go back to sleep? When they wake do they take a bottle after they just drank 7 ounces? Do they need to burp? Do you swaddle? White noise?

 

We Ferberized my DD at around 10 weeks per our pediatrician's recommendation. His position was 8 weeks + 10 lbs. = time to sleep train. It worked beautifully for us. She would go to bed by 8 p.m., but would wake up once to eat around 4 a.m. Then someone - probably the pedi - said that we were forming a habit by continuing to feed her at 4 a.m., so we dropped that feeding by 3 months or so. She has been an excellent sleeper ever since (just turned 5 years old).

We did not have to train our second child - he was a freaky early STTN kid.

Our twins turned 11 weeks yesterday - we started their sleep training last Friday. So far, so good - it's taken about 20 minutes or so for them to settle down - we haven't had any hours long ordeals, but then again they haven't totally rolled over and gone to sleep yet either. I've gotten 9-11 hours of sleep out of the bigger baby, and more like 7-8 hours out of the smaller one. I'm not going to go hardcore training until after Thanksgiving travel.

My experience has been that two months-ish is old enough to train - I'm not sure if I would've done it, though, had my pediatrician not recommended it. And I know this approach is not for everyone. My babies have all been term and have not had weight issues (although my one who started sleeping 12 hours a night consistently at 5 weeks has always been a bottom feeder - 3rd percentile - on the growth chart).

 

my boys were also a month early and are just shy of their 4 month birthday.

i really think it's up to you to decide what is best for your children regardless of what others opinions are, other mothers, pediatricians and books. it's what you can tolerate and what you feel most comfortable with.

for me, and a lot of other mom's disagree, we started CIO at an early age. it was in part due to the severe colic they had and their inability to become calm regardless of the methods we used and in part because i wanted them to learn to be able to sleep in their cribs without fussing or getting upset and know that it is a safe and comfortable place to rest.

my boys have various types of cries, if the cries are not severe and are just whimpers or just a little fussing (starting to cry and stopping within a minute or two) i don't rush to them but if it is louder, more persistent, etc. i immediately go check on them. i don't think, if you're going to do CIO, that you should let them cry red in the face but if they are pouting or fussing, i personally, would let it go. when my boys pout or are cranky they make frowny faces and say "ma ma" for a few minutes and then stop. when they are hurt or really upset they turn red.

it's my opinion, take it for what it's worth, that the sooner you are able to establish healthy sleep habbits the better and easier it will be as they get older...obviously i won't know how well this is going to work until they get older but so far we've had no problem what so ever and they are excellent little sleepers. they don't fuss at all when we put them in their cribs and go right to sleep.

as for the feeding every 4 hours, if you think they might be hungry in between the certainly try to give them a bottle and see what happens. i give 5oz every 4 hours from 6:30am until 10pm, that's 5 bottles a day. they sleep from 10:30pm until i wake them up for their 6:30am feed. they don't always take the full 5oz every 4 hours but they know that they have the opportunity to eat whatever they need to in order to fill them up. if they seem hungry in between or cry i'll try a small bottle but i try and not feed them any earlier than every 3 hours if i can. if you are really unsure talk to your pedi about it. if they are gaining weight and growing well then it shouldn't be a problem.

and yes i do believe that children have the ability to "learn" even from birth. but that's my opinion. babies develop so quickly it's amazing!

it's really your call. but good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

For me, personally, 4 months (3 months adjusted) is too early for CIO, but I wouldn't hesitate to let them fuss for just a bit when they first wake up to see if they will just fall back to sleep. I wouldn't go rushing to their rooms at the first little whimper. And, I would definitely start trying to get them on some sort of routine in the night so you can get some sleep. When one baby woke, I always woke the other to eat as well so that they didn't just take turns all night long. If they are not hungry when they are waking in the night, maybe a quick rub on the back & a paci might do the trick, or maybe music, white noise, etc. I hope something works out for you soon, I know it's exhausting when you aren't getting any sleep. :hug:

 

At about 3 1/2 months we started sort of sleep training for naps out of necessity. Mine were also very colicky for the first 3 months and once they calmed down from that we learned that the only way they were not fussy was if they took good naps. They were most definitely like what Dr. Weissbluth describes when he talks about the overtired child. They would fight fight fight the nap and not fall asleep regardless of the rocking, bouncing, shushing, etc. DH is home with them and so he didn't even have the mommy comfort thing going for him, so he just started laying them down at naptime. At first they would scream but he would let them cry up to 30 minutes because they would cry whether he held them or not. Shortly they started figuring out that naptime was time to sleep and, what do you know, as soon as they started sleeping for naps they became very happy babies.

Because this was already working for naptime, I decided to do CIO at 17 weeks. Within 3 nights they were falling asleep when I laid them down instead of crying. They are not big babies, so this really has no bearing on the issue of learning to self soothe(At 4 months DD was 13 lb and DS 11 lb 10 oz.) The one thing that people forget is that sleep training DOES NOT mean that you never go in there if they cry. Mine have shown they have the ability to STTN but if they wake up in the middle of the night I do still go in and feed them. However, the nice thing about sleep training is that after I feed them, I burp them and lay them back down...no rocking, no holding for 30-40 minutes. So, where before I was up for an hour for each feeding, now it is 15-20 minutes. Also, lately DD has been waking at 4 AM but not crying, just talking loudly. All I do is turn the mobile on and she falls right back to sleep. The mobile we have has a remote so she doesn't even see me...it works like a charm!

So, you have to figure out what works for you, but once a baby has found their hands then they have the tools to self soothe because they are not a slave to the pacifier. Everybody has their own opinions but years of research has shown that crying is natural and does not hurt a baby so as long as you are not ignoring their hunger or discomfort then you ARE attending to their needs. Do what feels right for you and don't let anyone tell you what choice is right or wrong because that is what it is, a choice. :youcandoit:

I'll also add that for me, sleep was very important. I went back to work full time when they were 8 weeks old and I am nursing so I couldn't make DH get up with them at night...