I'm a mean mommy!

The boys are now escaping out of their pen within seconds of me or DH turning around. So I had to move the pen around. Now they have full run of the their rooms, the hallway, and most of the office including area they can look over the stairs to see the foyer down below, and the top of th stairs. That means, they have access to the gate. The gate door locks, but it's a pressure gate. We are looking in to a permanent gate now, but we do not have it just yet. SO, every time the boys go over and shake the gate door, we have been sending them to time out.

How on earth do you deal with it? They go to the gate, we warn them one time and then off to their pack 'n plays for 5 minutes (it was 3 originally, but 5 seems ot be makign more of an effect on them). The problem is not that they repeatedly go back and shake the gate around, we expected that, but they also tease us. They think it's a game. They both hate time outs, but they'll go to the gate, look at us and barely tough the gate. Once we give that look of disapproval, they let go and run around laughing. Then the moment our eyes are off of them, it's back to the gate. I know it's just the first day of this. They are going to the gate less often, so I figured it's working a little. It's just a new place for them to be able to touch. It's fun and interesting to explore. But, we just don't want them to get hurt and take gate shaking very seriously. I hope this doesn't take too long. I'd like to be able to play with them more. Cameron just looks at me now like I"m a big meanie. He got a little better about my attitude later on in the day, but he still gives me that, "You're a mean mommy!" look. Kiefer doesn't take it personally, but he hates it just as much. He is ignoring the gate a lot more even now, but he still plays the game.

I hate that look from them. I hate having to send them to time-outs. But I'm sticking with it. I just hope they catch on soon before someone gets hurt.

 

At that age are the aware of cause and effect? Are they able to know they are going into time out b/c of the gate?

Dianna

 

I get so many different opinions on this. Some say they can, some say not really. I just don't know. It does seem to be making a small effect already, but then again, it might just be they are not as interested. I figured give it a shot for a bit. I really have no other choice until we can get a safer gate. I have no other place for them at this time. If I lock them in their rooms, that's both mean and extremely boring to them. They will cry. I don't have an extra room at this time for them to play in with their toys together, and at this point, it won't offer them the amount of freedom they have with the current setup (even when I had the pen less in to the office. It's hard to describe the setup. Since we are having construction in a few weeks down stairs on the first floor, I can't baby proof the first floor yet. I don't believe in spanking or anythign like that and they'd be too young for that anyhow. This just seems to be the better option. it's just the first day, but it's just soo hard!!! They are not used to having a consequence to something they do. I know they can't understand consequence yet, but they can understand cause and effect at this time....at least to my understanding. So if they shake the gate, they get something they don't like. It's like saying "no" to a toddler at this age. They do understand "No" at this time, so I figure that is a cause and effect, right? so maybe they can understand what happens when they do something you don't like? It just takes a little while for them to pick it up, since they cannot reason and they don't understand consequence.

Please correct me if I'm wrong at this. I'd like another option if I can. I just cannot bring this pen downstairs and then back up. it's WAY too heavy and big to bring down a narrow staircase. I can't be running up and down the stairs just to put them in their high chairs to sit so I can let my dogs out. I just need another option if this is the wrong thing to do.


Oh I forgot to mention, I've been singing to them, playing games and reading books and doing whatever I can think of to distract them. They are very focused boys when they see somethign they want.

 

Well, in our case, everything is baby proof in the area they are allowed to roam it, except the computer desk. And I've told them probably 200 times so far that they are not allowed to touch the mouse or the keyboard, every time I remove them, and they've had tantrums because of it several times... and they still do it. I really don't think they get it yet.

 

Could for you need them downstairs could you use a pac-n-play or two of them?

 

Unfortunately that wouldn't work. They hate them. If they don't have some freedom they get really angry. I also have no place to put them downstairs when I'm not using them, and it won't be easy for me to carry them up and down the stairs when I need to use them. Right now, also that's what I've been using for their time outs. I can almost guarantee they will not be very happy "playing" in there while I'm downstairs. I've never used them as play areas anyhow, I'm not sure they'd know how to enjoy it in there. Also at 26 lbs each, they floor of those pack 'n plays tend to bend a bit. I wouldn't feel safe for them to be in there very long.

 

i think you are doing the right thing. when it comes to safety you really can't be too serious! i think that the 5 minute time out may be a tad too long but if that is what is working stick with it. if i were you i would be getting the permanent gate ASAP since you can't be watching them every minute that they are upstairs.

i have a similar issue with DS, he loves electric outlets, can't stay away from them and even though i have the plug covers on them he has gotten pretty good at prying them off, so whenever he goes to touch one he gets a stern NO and is removed from the area. in the beginning he also thought it was a fun game and would go rushing back, but now, not so much, and yes, i get the "you're a mean mommy" look too... heartbreaking, but i'd rather get the look than a fried kid

 

Haha! Yea, I was doing some reading on the early time-outs. It seems it's better to start with going a minute per year. So for a 1 year old, it's a one minute time-out. It's short, but they'll get the point...if you are persistent. You can teach a 1 year old what to do and not do, but it does take a little extra time than a 2 year old. So the time-outs have been reduced. We JUST found out the gates we had can be converted to permanent gates. We found the hardware for them too. We just need the instructions. We may have that permanent gate up much sooner than we thought! At that point, I don't mind letting them shake the gate until they are bored with it. The door itself is very sturdy, but it will move around as long as it is a pressure gate. I tried it myself. I do have to put a lot of pressure on it for it to move, but with two very persistent toddlers, I fear that the pressure will not hold and they will come tumbling down the stairs.

Our next dilemma is what to do about the dogs. They are used to having free run of the office. Now with the way the babies are going to gain their freedom, the dogs lose theirs. I can only trust one of my dogs to be near the boys...my husky. She LOVES the boys. My other girl...not so much. She's old, is almost deaf and losing her eye sight. She's on Valium (she was VERY panicky most likely due to her sensory losses) and doing well on it, but she still isn't comfortable around the babies. She's also very needy of me and Jason. We cannot have her wandering free with the boys. When she was younger, she'd just make a B-line around them and avoid them. She won't be able to do that anymore due to the layout of the new house. I feel bad for her, but she seems comfortable enough in the master bedroom for now.

 

great news about the gate! and i think if your old pup is happy in your room just let her hang in there. we have an old grumpy dog and he has been booted out of the baby area unless it is food cleanup time, which is just fine with him, he spends the majority of his day on the sofa wondering what all the racket is about...

 

It's working already!

Kiefer rarely goes to the gate now. In just one day, he's learned that we don't approve of him shaking the gate. He only has gone there to touch the gate when Cameron is standing there. Cameron has been put in to time out a few times already today, but not as much as yesterday within a short time period. He seems to be able to entertain himself with other things more easily now and is not as interested in the gate as much as yesterday. He still tries. I also see him tease a little as opposed to forgetting the new rule.

I'm just impressed at how one day of time-outs has made a difference! Kiefer now even knows what time-outs mean. He was playing with a door. We have taken whatever precautions we could to keep him from closing the door, but fingers still do manage to get catch. The door can't close fully, but the hinge area is still unprotected. He'll still play with the door. All we had to do was remind him about time-out and he just gave a look of disappointment and stopped the game. He then tried a different door later on and he was in time-out. He has not touched another door since! He knows we are coming back for him so he only whines when we put him in his pack 'n play, but he'll wait patiently otherwise for us to come back and put him up. He gets his kiss and "I love you" and he's happy and back to playing with his toys. Cameron has gotten a little better, but he will still cry or put up a fuss when he's in time-out. Yesterday, he'd scream like we were torturing him. So hard to listen to, but he seems to be catching on that we aren't leaving him there, but he does get put there when he plays with the gate. Most of the time when he teases us and touches the gate all we have to do is give him the look and he backs off of the gate until he thinks he can get away with it again later on. We give him that warning and I see that tease look on his face....his "oh yeah? We'll see about that one, Mom/Dad!" :lol: Silly boy, we will win this battle every time. We thought he was going to be our trouble maker when he was a baby. Then he became our sweet, calm little man. HA! That was only the calm before the storm. Now he knows he can tease us. I have to remind DH not to raise his voice. Then that only shows them they've got control. We have to remain calm and just give one warning and then just simply place him in time-out. We need to stick to it and don't change the rules based on what mood you are in.

I'm proud of them for learning this new rule. I'm proud of ourselves for sticking to it and believing that we can actually do this! We've got more to learn as they try new things, but so far, so good. This is our first lesson in toddler discipline. Hopefully we can continue to use this method. It works for me.

I was spanked a lot as a child and I felt it did nothing for me...course, most of the time, I was being spanked for something my brother did and got away with, but it just became a useless tool for my mother. I actually became afraid of her and not the punishment. I dont' want to happen with my kids!!

 

For my guys (17 months), I do not think they would understand the time-out at all, but I think if it works for y'all, Go for it!

My guys will respond to a look and a serious tone of voice usually. But for now, we are able to keep them in our family room which has been baby-proofed and contained by one of the large permanent-style configurable gates. Our kitchen and family room open right up into each other, so it's like I'm in the room with them. . . and they are in a "large play area" with their toys. My older kids are not allowed to bring their toys in the "baby area".

I was spanked as a kid, and I totally was not scarred at all. I have the awesomest parents in the world! But I can understand everyone's experience with that may not be the same.

Your little guys are so very cute! And smart too to already know how to tease and push your buttons!

 

Anna was the queen of this behavior around 18 months. They are just trying to figure out precisely where that boundary is. Can they shake the gate? No. Can they touch the gate? No. Can they look at the gate? Yes. Okay, then can they look at the gate while reaching out for it?

I just tell myself that it's their job to figure out boundaries, and it's my job to set them and be consistent. I promise they really DO get it. Even if it feels like you have to send them to time out 500 times.

Edit: I've read the responses. I do feel like they get the cause and effect of time outs. I know that others don't, but I think that's not giving them enough credit. I absolutely believe that Anna got that she was being punished, and time outs have already helped us with things like the gate, hitting, biting, standing on tables, etc.

 

I think you have to do what works for you & your family. My LOs understand "No" and they will even look at me before doing something that they aren´t supposed to do! I agree they are still at the cause & effect stage but the message will get through. You may have to remind them in a few days´ time again but they´ll get there.

Have you explained to them why they can´t do it? I find my LOs understand so much more than I give them credit for and I always explain why they can´t do something. I bet your LOs love the sound the gate makes when they shake it. I know my LOs love to make different noises!

GL & I hope you can get a new gate soon!