Midwife Freaked me out a bit....

Yeah I know there's a swine flu forum, but I felt like this connected more with pregnant women then the general public. So I go into my midwife today. I'm pretty set in my mind that I don't want the vaccine for H1N1. We might've had it last week afterall... I've heard stories that it can be pretty mild. Anyway, so the midwife lays this bomb on me (and I expected them to be vaccine-neutral compared to an ob/gyn!)...they have a patient who was just admitted yesterday to intensive care unit with H1N1. She's 35 weeks pregnant and now on a respirator. It happened really fast with her feeling ill to respitory distress within 8 hours. So needless to say, the midwives are really pushing for the vaccine. Now I'm swinging on the pendulum again. I didn't get the vaccine today. I just couldn't decide. What do I do?? I wish they could test to see if I already had this stupid thing. eeeek. I've never even had a regular flu shot while not pregnant, so how can I know how my body will react to a flu shot while pregnant????

Okay ladies, calm me down here. Am I taking a horrible risk not getting the vaccine?? Would I be taking a horrible risk getting the vaccine??? I'm totally waffling on this again, and I'm just ticked that I have to worry about this at all. I need some solid numbers on how many pregnant women have had this thing, and how many of them actually do get seriously ill. And whether or not they have evidence that the vaccine is actually working for pregnant women.

 

Well, I don't have any of the info you asked for, but I'm in the same situation. I was so on the fence and after weighing my options, decided to get it. HOWEVER!!!!! It's not even AVAILABLE around here until early December. The hospital is making a big deal about it and screening everyone in the maternity section for any little sign of the flu. They even considered making it policy to separate mom and baby if mom had so much as a sniffle. Ummmm....I don't think so. Thankfully that didn't fly as they'd have people signing out AMA by the dozen. Babies are better off with mom's antibodies in her milk. Anyway....good luck with your choice. By the time the vaccine becomes available around here I won't be pregnant anymore. Heck, by the time it becomes available it will likely be summer.

 

IMO get the vaccine. It is best for you and your baby to protect you. We ended up in the hospital for 4 days with our almost 2 year old and they thought it might be swine flu. It just isn't worth the risk for us seeing as tons of schools are closed in our area. My DH gets info from homeland security (scary things besides pandemics). The info that they are sharing is the only reason they are not totally freaked out is that there is a vaccine that works. I know so many are against vaccinces but really it is why so many of us are living much longer.

 

Get it! The virus mutates so even if you did have it.. you can get it again!!! GET IT! It's totally safe and well worth the benefits of avoiding that illness.

 

I was going to get it and got put on the waiting list, then I decided I wasn't, but honestly I'm still unsure. I just wish we could know for sure that it is safe or better yet that we weren't even having to deal with this. It makes me so nervous because I know it has been going around like crazy in the town I have to travel to for my appointments/delivery and on Monday I will be in the hospital pretty much all day doing bloodwork etc. Scary! I have had the regular flu shot before and had no issues, supposedly it is the same, but then why is everyone freaked out about it? Just makes me wonder.

 

You know, the crazy thing is that I'm not even that worried about side-effects from the vaccine. I think what bothers me is getting it when I might not really need it. And I think also, my gut instinct that it would be better to have a natural immunity to this thing should it mutate in the future. My aunt, who is an anesthesiologist, did her research on it last week. She is going to get it for her two teenagers, but hasn't yet decided for herself. According to her this vaccine, and any flu vaccine, is only good for about 9 months. Meaning, if the swine flu comes back next summer or fall you will either need the vaccine again or you will get the swine flu. If I weren't pregnant I wouldn't even consider getting the vaccine. I'd rather just get the darn virus and not worry about it coming back even worse. That's the part that makes me want to just chance getting the stupid thing.

 

If I wasn't pregnant I wouldn't get the vaccine. My husband and I had discussed it and I we weren't going to get it but then I was back and forth because of all the media hype. I spoke with my midwife and from what I understand is the flu can turn into pnemonia (SP) and that is when it is dangerous. Being pregnant already causes a decreased lung capacity and pnemonia on top of that is no good. I cannot risk taking weeks off of work for the flu because it will cut into my paid maternity leave, I also have children in daycare which puts me at higher risk of getting it. Ultimately, I decided to get it and my Family Doctor had it available. I would do what you gut tells you and go with it.

 

I'm on the fence about it now. But if I were pregnant, I think I'd have already gotten it. They were explaining on the news one night why it's so hard on pregnant women... after another one died. They think it's at least partly a matter of oxygen. Pregnant women don't get as much oxygen, so they have a harder time fighting it off for some reason. I don't remember all the details, but that was the crux of it.

 

The decreased lung capacity is what I've been hearing as well. I already feel like I have a harder time breathing so it makes me very nervous. I'm not worried about side effects from the vaccine for myself, especially if it is true that it is the same as the seasonal flu vaccine just a different strain, because I've had those flu shots several times and never had any problems or got the flu. I'm just worried about hurting the baby. I have a hard enough time taking Tylenol or even drinking a cup of coffee when I'm pregnant because I worry so much.

 

I just asked my friend who is the Infection Control Coordinator at the hospital that I work at what her thoughts were. Feel free to read our convo but it did sway my thoughts into getting it for both myself and the boys I think pregnant women are also at risk bc your immune system is lowered a tiny bit while preggo...correct me if I'm wrong but thats what I thought. Anyways...here is our email convo (my email is bold her response is italicized):

From: Wright, Kimberly - Cardiac Diagnostics
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:23 AM
To: Cramer, Susan - Infection Control and Patient Safety
Subject: H1N1 vaccine
Hi Susie Q
I was wondering if you could calm my fears about the vaccine. I really don't want to get it for the boys but at the same time I would feel sooo guilty if they would catch it. Also no one knows yet so please please please keep a secret for me but I am 6wks pregnant and don't know if I should get it. I was diagnosed with Lupus at the beginning of September, would that make any difference? I know it is probably the same as a regular flu shot but I have never had one of those and can't remember the last time I had the flu either. Help me out! I'm just so on edge even with the boys caught up size wise and everything that they were born premature and I don't want to overwhelm their bodies. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!! I appreciate any advice you could give me or just to explain the vaccine a little more so its not as "scary".
Love,
Kim


From: Cramer, Susan - Infection Control and Patient Safety
Sent: Fri 10/23/2009 8:23 AM
To: Wright, Kimberly - Cardiac Diagnostics
Subject: RE: H1N1 vaccine
Congratulations!!!! I am so excited for you, I will be happy to alleviate your fears honey…you are not alone! It is so scary to be pregnant with little ones with this flu going around. If you get a chance to catch up with me later we could talk up here in my office, or I can just email you all the information ….let me know what works better with you!!!
Love ya bunches!!!


From: Wright, Kimberly - Cardiac Diagnostics
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:09 AM
To: Cramer, Susan - Infection Control and Patient Safety
Subject: RE: H1N1 vaccine
Thanks I might be leaving early if you don't mind emailing the info and I could share with Reeny too, I know she's on the fence as well. Thanks again!


The CDC recommendations are pregnant women are number 1, people who are caring for children less than 6 mos of age, healthcare workers, children age 6mos – age 24, then older people with health issues. So you are on the first tier of vaccination on pregnancy and healthcare worker both. Dr Blank is getting his little ones vaccinated and I am making Ben and Jordan get it too, just because our kids are in the target age groups. H1N1 vaccine is manufactured and purified the same as any other vaccine so there has been no more risk identified with it as any other vaccinations. For the most part most people that are getting it fell terrible with fever and cough (upper respiratory symptoms) for about 3-5 days feeling better by day 7 and returning to work or school. But in a few patients they are getting a secondary pneumonia and that is causing the serious illness. With you diagnosis of lupus I would definitely get the vaccine as soon as possible, you will be offered it first. Let me know if you need more information…..love ya!!!!

 

I'm still not going to get it. Likewise, our flu shots always turn up really late here, since it's warm, so I will be at the end of my pregnancy. It's still the case that no more people have died than from ANY seasonal flu--why did we not hear about flu deaths last year? or the year before? or the year before that?
SOOOO if you normally run out and get flu shots, yeah, get this too. But if you are like me and don't get flu shots. I see NO reason to get this one. You might be in a car accident today? Are you going to stay home from now on?

 

Yes. You might be in a car accident tomorrow but if you could prevent it, would you? Do you wear your seatbelt? Or do you prefer to let fate take it's course?

All pregnant women should ABSOLUTELY get a flu shot and the H1n1 shot. It's sort of like a seatbelt, I guess. It's there and it might not save your life but at least you're wearing it JUST IN CASE.

 

Anyone with a strong family history of autoimmune diseases should not get the flu shots. Because flu shots need to be immediately effective--as opposed to say the polio vaccine--they add ingredients that stimulate the immune system into a faster response. Which is great, unless of course you are predisposed to an autoimmune disease.
If you don't do flu shots for those reasons, then you should ESPECIALLY not do them when you are expecting.

 

Just wanted to add some info from Canada...although some of the doctors will have the H1N1 vaccine, in general they're just running open clinics. So today was the first day for Ontario--and in some places, they had to close the roads, or people waited in line for more than 4 hours and then were told the clinic was full (there's only so many people they can process and the nurses have lives and kids too). My hubby and I stopped by the local clinic late in the day but of course they had already shut the doors to new patients, so I keep telling him I don't mind waiting until next week. He was sweet and told me that he didn't want me to stand in line for hours, so he would bring a chair for me :lol:

I work in an office building, and my OB is at the hospital, so the only other place I might go with potential germs is the grocery store, so I'm not too worried about waiting a week or two. The last time I had the flu (12 years ago) was February. (On the couch for 5 days--the cat was very happy). There were only 8 cases in our health unit (that's 3 counties) last week, so it's not prevalent around here.

I usually get the seasonal flu shot through a clinic run in the building where I work (it's free, after all), but the distribution this time is different because of needing to get the "identified" groups first.

I agree with PP, the process for making the vaccine is the same as any other one, there's been so much hype that people are getting freaked out.

 

I'd like to know more about what they add to these vaccines. I also read on-line that they are adding something to this shot, not sure if they do this will the regular flu shot, to make your immune system actually kick in and create antibodies sooner. They have added vitamin-e, fish oil, and a few other things. I have no issue with eating those things...but injecting them into my body???

Well, then I later caught a video clip from a news source out of philly in which the nurse stated that none of the h1n1 vaccines in the U.S. have these additives. So where are the facts??

And I'm really ticked at the CDC. This decision would be so much easier to make if we actually knew how many people really are getting the swine flu! On the one hand they are telling you that everything flu-like going around now is the swine flu...and on the other hand there is this report from CBS news compiling state data from 3 months worth of what doctors 'diagnosed' as swine flu, and it turns out that 83-97% of these flu-like cases were confirmed to not be any flu at all. So which is it??? 'Get the vaccine since everything going around is swine flu?' or 'Get the vaccine because that flu-like illness you had last week was probably not really swine flu??' It leaves me scratching my head at the illogic of this debate.

 

I dont think its been mentioned in the thread yet. But the main reason I have heard that pregnant women should get the H1N1 (as well as the regular flu shot) is because children under 6 months of age are TOO YOUNG to be vaccinated. By you getting it when you are pregnant the baby is likely to receive the immunities to the swine flu/flu while still in utero.

The other thing is that had the H1N1 strand been fully developed when the regular flu shot was being completed it would have just been 1 shot this year. But because they couldn't get the cocktail done on time its now 2 separate shots.

I have gotten my regular flu shot already. I haven't gotten the swine flu shot yet but more than likely will once its availabe. My husband/doctor/good friend who's a nurse & LC for public health all feel strongly about it.

 

But I've also heard from my aunt, who is an anesthesiologist, that according to her research the shot only lasts about 9 months at most. Which means depending on when you get it during your pregnancy your baby would not be protected for the first 6 months entirely. And also, if this virus comes back even worse next summer everyone who got the shot will have no natural immunity to it, but will need another, probably altered, shot. And if a pregnant woman got the h1n1 virus naturally then her baby would get her natural immunity to it, particularly if she's bfing. I just wish they could test to see if I had the stupid virus last week. It'd be nice to know!

 

We've been told just the opposite. With Aaron's recent Chron's disease diagnosis, we were advised to get the flu vaccine - but the injections, not the nasal spray, which is a weakened live virus. People with diabetes, also an autoimmune disease, are advised to get the shot. Now, I'm so confused. :unsure:

 

If the clinic ever gets the darn shots in I think I'm going to just end up getting both flu shots. From what I've read the baby can possibly get some immunity from the flu if mom gets the shots in the third trimester.

 

I was just diagnosed with Lupus which is a chronic autoimmune disorder and was told to get the shot.

 

If you alreay have an autoimmune disease then the danger is passed. There is "evidence" that the flu shot (any flu shot) can trigger a dormant disease and bring it on earlier in patients who are pre-disposed to getting it. The Flu shot does not cause these diseases in patients, just gets the engine revving so to speak. My family history is in Rhumetoid arthritis and the doctors do not recommend the flu shot for our family, with the exception of my father--who already is suffering from RA.

Here's a related article from Missouri Arthritis Rehabitilitaon Research and Training Center

 

I just need to clarify one thing after reading this thread. Someone keeps saying that the flu shot is only good for 9 mos so its better to get immunity from natural infection because it will last longer. I got my PhD in molecular microbiology and immunology from a school of public health (and therefore very pro vaccine) and the inaccuracy here is bugging me. The reason you need a flu shot every year is because the influenza virus genome is segmented, and therefore can (and does) reassort which means that the circulating viruses change drastically from flu season to flu season. This is why there is a new flu shot every year because they need to make one based on the viruses circulating that year. So whether you get your immunity from natural infection or a vaccine, chances are it wont count for very much come next flu season and you will either have to get another flu shot or risk getting the flu. With that said, there is a theory that the reason the elderly population is faring so well with H1N1 is that due to their age they have probably come across a similar virus in the past. So - immunity, no matter how you get it is helpful but if your body hasn't seen the virus currently in circulation, you will get sick. In my opinion its always better to get a vaccine if its available because then you can avoid getting sick. Hope that all makes sense.

 

So, to be clear, are you saying that whether you get h1n1 this year naturally or get the h1n1 shot you will forever have antibodies to the h1n1 strain that is currently circulating? (I'm not talking about some mutated version in the future.). My aunt, the anesthesiologist (just have to mention her background), had told my mom that this was not the case or at least that's how it sounded to me. I don't know where she got her research from, but this is the question that I have... obviously the vaccine is using the dead virus (the shot...pregnant women aren't supposed to take the live virus nasal spray, so that's not relevant for us right now) so I would think the body's reaction to that might be different. My understanding of vaccines is that the vaccine virus cell is made to 'look' like the natural virus cell just without the nasty components that actually make you sick. Like tricking your body with a look alike cell... Will your body then forever be immune to that virus? Here's a case in point.... my kids all got the chicken pox virus. Well, in the past year or so doctors have now decided that kids really need a booster to be truly vaccinated against chicken pox 'forever.' But the vast majority of people who get chicken pox on their own will never get chicken pox again. (they might get shingles, but that's another story.) So why is this? Clearly the vaccine dead virus isn't making as permanent a mark on the immune system as the natural virus.

So that leads me to the question... will those who naturally get h1n1 be 'better' immunized against a future mutation than those who were vaccinated a year prior whose bodies may or may not 'remember' to attack similar cells?? My gut instinct tells me that our bodies can design a better antibody based on the real deal than on a man-made creation. But, for many people, obviously this will not have a huge bearing on whether or not they get the vaccine. I think most of us base it on the risk numbers involved. And my biggest beef with the CDC right now is that they haven't kept better track of the real numbers instead of the guesses on infections by telling doctors to stop testing patients. With gazillions of viruses which could cause 'flu-like' symptoms how on earth do they really know that most patients with flu-like symptoms really have h1n1 and not some other form of flu or varient virus? IMHO it undermines the credibility of that whole organization and definitely causes me to question their recommendations.